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-- The Belief Spectrum
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Originally posted by squirrelly Well I didn't really know that those people got paid in the church? I meant when they hand around the collection plates and stare at you like GIVE ME MONEY.

In almost every other church everyone for the most part gets paid. Mormons don't believe in this.

And yeah, the collection plate is fucking dumb. Another thing Mormons do right. You pay your tithing and hand it to the bishop, or one of his counselors (there are only 3, so not like there are 100 or something).

I don't understand that. If you're struggling to put food on your table, you're supposed to give up your money to the church? Wtf is with that?

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Originally posted by squirrelly I don't understand that. If you're struggling to put food on your table, you're supposed to give up your money to the church? Wtf is with that?

Well, to be fair, the Mormon church has a thing they call the "Bishop's Store House" that they can provide food for the needy as necessary. And being that I have been through all this being a poor motherfucker as a kid.

wtf did they disable the url tag?

http://www.mormonwiki.com/Bishop's_Storehouses

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Originally posted by squirrelly For those of you that "lost" faith, did you just wake up one day and think "ok, I'm done with that" or were there a series of things that led to it?

I used to be fed with religion by my grandparents when i was a kid, but the more i grew up and started thinking with my own head the more i realised that the stories they were telling me were full of crap and made no sense at all and that most religious people were fucking douchebags. A belief confirmed when i got a really bad beating from a priest when one time after sunday school (was forced to attend because of the grandparents) i dared to ask him why there is no mention of dinosaurs in the bible. I think i was about 6 or 7 at the time. Apart from attending a few funerals i never entered a church again, the grandparents were devastated of course but at that point i had a considerable lower opinion of them anyway so i didnt care...still dont.

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Originally posted by gehzumteufel I am not a fan of religion, but this is one thing I commend the Mormon church for. People pay their tithing, but NO ONE but the people that are above the regional level in "management" are paid by the church. All the Bishops (the "pastor") Stake Presidents (the regional "pastor" that oversees all the "wards" (aka the congregations of each bishop)) and I think even the one just above that (can't remember the name lol) are all doing this as a service to god.

Yes, duping people into working for you for free *is* a good business model, I must say...

Though the city of Las Vegas keeps the Mormons juiced.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Yes, duping people into working for you for free *is* a good business model, I must say... Though the city of Las Vegas keeps the Mormons juiced.

LOL

I am not saying it is for me, but with these people that are supposed to be doing things out of the kindness of their hearts and for god, why are they getting paid for it? I mean, I understand the ones that are high up that do nothing but stuff with the church, but ffs, the lowly pastors and shit aren't only doing church things.

No, I know what you mean. It's why when people say that religion is just a way to make money, it doesn't really hold much water at all.

Haha and another thing from my brothers church is that you have to pay for your sins. Depending on the severeity of them you have to give the church money in order to "remove your sins" or whatever. The worst part is that the people do it lol. Brainwashing at it's best.

quote:

Originally posted by Rose Haha and another thing from my brothers church is that you have to pay for your sins. Depending on the severeity of them you have to give the church money in order to "remove your sins" or whatever. The worst part is that the people do it lol. Brainwashing at it's best.

Interesting. I've never heard of evangelical Protestant churches doing that.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Interesting. I've never heard of evangelical Protestant churches doing that.

lol he goes to one of those Christian mega churches where the pastor is screaming the entire time and everyone's crying and throwing themselves on the floor. Absolutely terrible.

quote:

Originally posted by Rose Haha and another thing from my brothers church is that you have to pay for your sins. Depending on the severeity of them you have to give the church money in order to "remove your sins" or whatever. The worst part is that the people do it lol. Brainwashing at it's best.

If someone is dumb enough to give money, then they deserve to be broke. Such is the way of the world.

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Originally posted by Renzo If someone is dumb enough to give money, then they deserve to be broke. Such is the way of the world.

I agree.

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Originally posted by Renzo If someone is dumb enough to give money, then they deserve to be broke. Such is the way of the world.

Yes but the person they're giving their money to doesn't deserve it either.

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Originally posted by gehzumteufel In almost every other church everyone for the most part gets paid.

Are you nuts? In every Catholic mass there is no fewer then 15 people involved and the only one getting paid is the priest... and they don't get very much... generally $15-30K per year gross of taxes. Of course they have their room and board paid for by the parish but $15-30K for someone who has a fuckin' doctorate is pretty shitty... no priest enters the priesthood for money. FYI, Bishops will make roughly the same amount as a parish priest but get better accommodations and usually a travel allowance.

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Originally posted by squirrelly Catholicism is the one religion that grinds my gears. I had a lot of not-so-good experiences with Catholics. I hate how they demand you give them money.

Odd, the church has never demanded anything of me.

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And when I question their thoughts, they get all pissed off instead of answering me.

Have you ever tried actually asking a priest rather then a parishioner? Long before becoming Catholic I regularly met with a parish priest to discuss Catholicism (note... I was not interested in joining the church at the time either). That said, if you have any questions you'd like to ask a semi-learned every-day parishioner; ask away...

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard if you have any questions you'd like to ask a semi-learned every-day parishioner; ask away...

do you think metallica's 'creeping death' does an adequate portrayal of the killing of egypt's firstborn sons?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN do you think metallica's 'creeping death' does an adequate portrayal of the killing of egypt's firstborn sons?

hmmm... not particularly, as it portrays the "creeping death" in an anthropomorphic way... like a creature acting on instructions with an independent malice and wrath. The "creeping death" was probably a massive escape of carbon monoxide secondary to the opening of a vent from the eruption of a volcano in the Mediterranean. Carbon monoxide fits well as the creeping death as the Egyptian custom at the time was for the parents and eldest son to sleep on the ground floor, the parents in an elevated bed and the eldest son on the floor (other children would sleep in the loft.... the Hebrew custom at the time was for animals to be kept on the ground floor and humans to sleep in the loft... this would explain why only the first born Egyptian sons were killed. Interestingly... the volcano theory can explain all of the "plagues" assuming that they actually happened (which is by no means certain). Anyway... I think the portrayal of the "creeping death" as an sentient thing that seems to take pleasure in the killing of Bas' ancestors doesn't fit with either the story in Exodus or any plausible explanation of what this "creeping death" was (again; assuming it happened).

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard hmmm... not particularly, as it portrays the "creeping death" in an anthropomorphic way... like a creature acting on instructions with an independent malice and wrath. The "creeping death" was probably a massive escape of carbon monoxide secondary to the opening of a vent from the eruption of a volcano in the Mediterranean. Carbon monoxide fits well as the creeping death as the Egyptian custom at the time was for the parents and eldest son to sleep on the ground floor, the parents in an elevated bed and the eldest son on the floor (other children would sleep in the loft.... the Hebrew custom at the time was for animals to be kept on the ground floor and humans to sleep in the loft... this would explain why only the first born Egyptian sons were killed. Interestingly... the volcano theory can explain all of the "plagues" assuming that they actually happened (which is by no means certain). Anyway... I think the portrayal of the "creeping death" as an sentient thing that seems to take pleasure in the killing of Bas' ancestors doesn't fit with either the story in Exodus or any plausible explanation of what this "creeping death" was (again; assuming it happened).

pffft. shows what you know. we have plenty of evidence for the plagues. hell, there's even photographs!

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN pffft. shows what you know. we have plenty of evidence for the plagues. hell, there's even photographs!

Thats the big flood, not the plague.

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Originally posted by nchs09 Thats the big flood, not the plague.

Moses = Charlton Heston /= Noah

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN pffft. shows what you know. we have plenty of evidence for the plagues. hell, there's even photographs!

im reading a book on quantum physics and the nature of reality right now called "Wholeness And The Implicate Order" by David Bohm, and in the first chapter he discusses the tendency of belief in a theory to actually affect the outcome of a situation based on that theory. He believes no theory can ever be completely true and that the goal of both science is to constantly move to a better theory as current theories fail to explain things that we become aware of through older theories.

One of the things he talks about is how in ancient times, people thought that plagues were inevitable and caused by gods. As such it never entered into their minds that maybe they were just dirty mother******s. But as soon as they realized they were dirty mother******s, sewage systems, etc began to reduce the effects and frequency of plagues.

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Have you ever tried actually asking a priest rather then a parishioner?

I never met with a parishoner. The Polish mass doesn't have that many people working in it - only the Priest really and a few kids. The priest in fact was a good friend of the family, so I asked him questions all the time. He answered some, sometimes... most of the time though, he would kind of brush it off. I liked him cause at least he answered some but then he was banished and we never saw him again. The priest that replaced him was a douche.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec He believes no theory can ever be completely true and that the goal of both science is to constantly move to a better theory as current theories fail to explain things that we become aware of through older theories.

yeah, i don't buy this kind of reasoning. we might be always limited by our experience and understanding but that doesn't mean we'll always be groping in the dark for true and proper theoretical explanation.

indeed, his "theory" is incompletely true by its own definition, so rather pointless imo.

I believe in Advaita Vedanta (Non-Duality).

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