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- Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont.
-- Supermarkets 5 cents a bag... Short sightedness at it's best!
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Originally posted by Jayx1 They cried last year when they wanted a 10% rate increase due to the fact that they were making less money due to a drop of usage due to conservation.

so true

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Originally posted by Jayx1 i dont plan on doing laundry at 2 am on sunday night and i certainly dont plan on shutting off the a/c at 2pm on a hot summer day. More social engineering.

just get a fixed rate contract

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Originally posted by Abercrombie BULLSHIT, I'm spending more because of these fcuking meters they put in last year.

Are you sure that's because of the meters, and not because the rates went up? I wasn't even aware that they had time-of-use billing in Aurora.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 i dont plan on doing laundry at 2 am on sunday night and i certainly dont plan on shutting off the a/c at 2pm on a hot summer day. More social engineering.

You don't need to do it at 2 AM. Have you actually looked at the rates?

Most people run their air conditioners/heat on weekdays when they aren't even home. Especially with the kinds of winters we have, you could throw in a programmable T-stat and cut your bill in half. And don't even think about saying "what about weekends!?" because weekends and holidays are considered off-peak. The highest rates are when most of us are at work, or during the 2-3 hours before or after. If you're using so much electricity during those hours... well, what the hell are you doing?

Anyway, utilities have every right to charge different rates for usage during different times of day. That's how it's always been done for industrial and large commercial customers, and in places like Alberta many consumers actually pay hourly rates.

It's strange that you of all people would complain about electricity, seeing as how it's excessive regulation in Ontario that has kept prices artificially low. The only reason these things weren't done 10 years ago was because of outdated OEB regulations and the antiquated Tenant Protection Act. Don't you think you're being a bit of a hypocrite?

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Originally posted by devnull just get a fixed rate contract

The majority of users who sign on with the canvassers have been proven to pay more over their term.

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Originally posted by DigiNut Are you sure that's because of the meters, and not because the rates went up? I wasn't even aware that they had time-of-use billing in Aurora.

we got the new meters in last summer

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Originally posted by DigiNut More on topic: Longos is apparently still not charging. No mention of bags at the cashier or on the bill. Good for me, since that's where I do 90% of my shopping.

The longos in BCE has a sign saying it starts June 1. LOAD UP NOW!

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Apparently the pilot project in milton has seen everyone's bill go up an average of 20%

I can assure you that mine has gone up.

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Back to plastic? Reusable grocery bags may cause food poisoning Posted: May 20, 2009, 11:00 AM by Karen Hawthorne plastic bags, health, environment Get out your bleach and launder those reusable fabric grocery bags after each use. You're not clogging up landfill with plastic throw-aways, but your environmental conscientiousness could make you sick. A microbiological study � a first in North America � of the popular, eco-friendly bags has uncovered some unsettling facts. Swab-testing by two independent laboratories found unacceptably high levels of bacterial, yeast, mold and coliform counts in the reusable bags. "The main risk is food poisoning," Dr. Richard Summerbell, research director at Toronto-based Sporometrics and former chief of medical mycology for the Ontario Ministry of Health, stated in a news release. Dr. Summerbell evaluated the study results. "But other significant risks include skin infections such as bacterial boils, allergic reactions, triggering of asthma attacks, and ear infections," he stated. The study found that 64% of the reusable bags tested were contaminated with some level of bacteria and close to 30% had elevated bacterial counts higher than what's considered safe for drinking water. Further, 40% of the bags had yeast or mold, and some of the bags had an unacceptable presence of coliforms, faecal intestinal bacteria, when there should have been 0. "The presence of faecal material in some of the reusable bags is particularly concerning," Dr. Summerbell stated. "All meat products should be individually wrapped before being placed in a reusable bag to prevent against leakage. This should become a mandated safety standard across the entire grocery industry." Don't use your cloth grocery bags for toting gym clothes or diapers or anything but your groceries to prevent possible exposure to a superbug called community-acquired MRSA, a highly antibiotic-resistant form of a common infectious bacterium, Dr. Summerbell cautioned. The study was funded by the Environment and Plastics Industry Council (EPIC), an industry initiative to promote responsible use and recovery of plastic resources. EPIC is a committee of the Canadian Plastics Industry Association. Conclusions from the study? This may have you gladly handing over the coins for plastic bags at the supermarket: � The moist, dark, warm interior of a folded used reusable bag that has acquired a small amount of water and trace food contamination is an ideal incubator for bacteria. � The strong presence of yeasts in some bags indicates the presence of water and microbial growth substrate (food). � There is a potential for cross-contamination of food if the same reusable bags are used on successive trips. � Check-out staff in stores may be transferring these microbes from reusable bag to reusable bag as the contaminants get on their hands. � In cases of food poisoning, experts will have to test reusable bags in addition to food products as the possible sources of contamination. Next steps? The study has been sent to the federal Sub-Committee on Food Safety currently investigating the safety of Canada's food system, federal and provincial health ministers and medical organizations across Canada with a request for immediate action.

source

Dont tell toronto city council lest facts get in the way of their fantasies!

haha i wonder if this Canadian Plastics Industry Association-funded study would have seen the light of day if it produced anything other than results that helped to encourage the purchase of more plastics?

Am I understanding this correctly? you have to PAY for grocery bags?? thats the exact opposite of here, where the grocery stores will pay YOU 5 cents to re-use the bags (and thus re-using/helping the environment......)

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Originally posted by daves haha i wonder if this Canadian Plastics Industry Association-funded study would have seen the light of day if it produced anything other than results that helped to encourage the purchase of more plastics?

Id like to see an independent study too. But I wonder if a city of toronto council study would see the light of day if it came to the same conclusions?

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Originally posted by yankeeBaby Am I understanding this correctly? you have to PAY for grocery bags?? thats the exact opposite of here, where the grocery stores will pay YOU 5 cents to re-use the bags (and thus re-using/helping the environment......)

Progressive thinking isnt much of a Canadian trait in political circles.

Thats why Canadians with grandiose ideas usually end up in the US or overseas

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Progressive thinking isnt much of a Canadian trait.

hehe dont be so hard on canada, they do their thing!!



It just makes sense to me: encourage people to recycle and re-use by offering an incentive! Its only 5 Cents, but if you ad that to the change jar every week, I am sure it will add up!

Typically people save their bags for garbage anyways, so why not take them back to the store with you and get 50 cents (or whatever) back? works for me!

Authoritarian left wing governments use disincentives as a means to control the population. Incentives are reserved for societies that place more emphasis on personal choice and responsibility. Thats the fundamental difference between Canada and the US.

Although these days that gap is starting to narrow a bit.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Authoritarian left wing governments use disincentives as a means to control the population. Incentives are reserved for societies that place more emphasis on personal choice and responsibility. Thats the fundamental difference between Canada and the US. Although these days that gap is starting to narrow a bit.

so do you think that the government simply doesnt *trust* the people to make the rights choices?

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Originally posted by yankeeBaby so do you think that the government simply doesnt *trust* the people to make the rights choices?

Its obvious in Canada with all the crazy laws that keep getting passed. Obama comes from the same line of thinking but his policies arent micro-control oriented so its doesnt directly impact the populace like our laws.

NYC and California are the states that come closest to Canada when it comes to micro engineering peoples lives

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Thats why Canadians with grandiose ideas usually end up in the US or overseas

What an ingornant comment, even for you.

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Originally posted by Skipper What an ingornant comment, even for you.

Not ignorant at all. For the most part it tends to be true. Having traveled and lived where I have I have seen it for myself. People with great visions and ideas tend to get shot down here and either give up or move. A very good example of this are actors and singers. But city planners and architects are especially amongst the brain drain that ive seen. So many Canadians i have met overseas are architects that could never get their work done over here because "all they want is the same old glass box".

Just travel to see the kinds of innovation that is ocurring right now. We squabble over bike lanes, souvlaki stands and plastic bags while there are cities all over the world that are transforming themselves on a massive scale into the 21st century.

I forgot to mention the space age BOMBARDIER trains and busses that ive seen overseas that are a pipe dream in canada. And dont go showing me the new streetcars because those are regressive to our city.

Im talking 250 km/h bullet trains and bus and subways with tvs on the seatbacks like in an airplane.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 I forgot to mention the space age BOMBARDIER trains and busses that ive seen overseas that are a pipe dream in canada. And dont go showing me the new streetcars because those are regressive to our city. Im talking 250 km/h bullet trains and bus and subways with tvs on the seatbacks like in an airplane.

I took the Acera train from DC to nyc once, and it was going so fast that the outside looked like a BLUR. Kinda scary but I made it back to nyc in 2.5-3 hours (typically a 4-6 hour drive depending on traffic). That shit was fassstttt!

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Originally posted by Jayx1 A very good example of this are actors and singers.

That's not a good example at all.
I think Canadian music is quite receptive towards non cookie cutter artists. And how are actors' unique ideas being stifled in Canada exactly?

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Originally posted by Jayx1 A very good example of this are actors and singers.

That's not a good example at all.
I think Canadian music is quite receptive towards non cookie cutter artists. And how are actors' unique ideas being stifled in Canada exactly?

What you're implying - or outright saying, more like it - is that the people left are run of the mill, uncreative folk with no unique ideas or skills sets. I am honestly fucking tired of listening to you bitch about our country and now, the people in it. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Canada has a lot of things going for it and that is why so many people from around the world want to live here. And for those who don't, good riddance.

We DO have a good thing going for ourselves!!! And this is why i cant stand to see it squandered. You dont get it. My criticism comes from my care and love for this place. I absolutely hate to see what is happening to it and how we are failing almost every test we have thrown our way. We are living not on today's success but successes from the past. Up until now we have gotten away with it but now its starting to show.

Canada today is still decent but the quality of life is definitely declining and I WANT TO BRING ATTENTION TO THIS TO HELP TRY TO STOP IT!

What distresses me even more is that most people either dont see it, dont care, or actually promote the decline with their own selfish special interests.

Canada was once a great nation, still is a good nation and is in danger of becoming one of those types of nations that people left in the first place.

If i didnt give a damn about Canada i wouldnt even waste my breath!

If you are trying to create awareness, I would suggest changing your message a bit then, because it comes off as arrogant and doesn't convince anyone.

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Originally posted by daves haha i wonder if this Canadian Plastics Industry Association-funded study would have seen the light of day if it produced anything other than results that helped to encourage the purchase of more plastics?

OK, but here's the real question: Who has funded a study that you would consider to be independent?

On the one hand you're looking at studies from the plastics industry, and on the other hand you're looking at studies (actually, more like pure rhetoric) from environmentalists and anti-corporate types who really hate plastics. I don't even know why anybody would get so emotional over plastics, but I'm not joking, I've met them. Remember, these are the same people who originally spread the still-popular but patently false information about popular plastic products leaching into food, and other such idiocy. You should be assigning the same credibility to an industry-funded study as you would to an NGO.

I see from this post and many previous ones that you're quite fond of the genetic fallacy (i.e. this argument or data lacks credibility because it comes from a source I consider to be biased). It's really not a particularly constructive or enlightened way of thinking.

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