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-- Fall 2018 Gas
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There's not really that much I'm gassing for at this stage either. Guess I've been on a bit of a Kontakt bender recently, picked up the Damage update which is pretty amazing, alongside a few other libraries.
I'm pretty interested in the Cycles library from Slate & Ash though.

I�ve got way more GAS for camera lenses these days. We�ve got so much invested already, but there are a couple more I want. It would be cheaper to buy some nice hardware synths, though

quote:

Originally posted by Teezdalien I find it hard to believe that there's no way it could actually be made to be more affordable in 2020.

That's because you don't understand manufacturing costs. And I mean that in a totally non patronising way.

To be true to the original (which is what they've done, plus genuine meaningful upgrades) they have to make it the way it used to be made, which was before modern production line style techniques.

It's not that the P5 is expensive, it's that everything else has become so cheap.

And anyway, compared to most other types of top end musical instruments it's still a complete bargain. A friend of mines wife is a concert cellist. Her cello, �15k, the BOW for the cello, �1500.

Furthermore, when the P5 was originally released it cost around $15k adjusted for inflation, so just under $5k for a version with more features and double the polyphony is a freakin' bargain tbh.

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord It's not that the P5 is expensive, it's that everything else has become so cheap.

Exactly. And, as mentioned, it holds across the board for most quality musical instruments. My main bass cost about $2K back in the 90s, and most pro basses these days cost $1500-3000 and much higher for boutique basses. So, a $3k+ price tag on a synth doesn�t seem outlandish in the big picture. But, that�s not to say that you can�t buy some amazing basses In the sub-$500 range and there are a lot of incredible bassists out there blowing people�s minds with Korean-made Squiers.

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord That's because you don't understand manufacturing costs. And I mean that in a totally non patronising way. To be true to the original (which is what they've done, plus genuine meaningful upgrades) they have to make it the way it used to be made, which was before modern production line style techniques. It's not that the P5 is expensive, it's that everything else has become so cheap. And anyway, compared to most other types of top end musical instruments it's still a complete bargain. A friend of mines wife is a concert cellist. Her cello, �15k, the BOW for the cello, �1500. Furthermore, when the P5 was originally released it cost around $15k adjusted for inflation, so just under $5k for a version with more features and double the polyphony is a freakin' bargain tbh.

To be fair, you're right for the most part there. But genuine meaningful upgrades? C'mon, adding "vintage" slop control?

So you're happy to pay extra because someone hand-soldered through-hole components the old fashioned way, which I highly doubt in this case anyway. I understand that it's an updated single board which makes SMT very likely, and frankly reduces the circuity costs pretty significantly. You're still paying mostly for the wooden housing. I suspect there wouldn't be a great deal of R&D overheads involved being a re-issue. Perhaps the re-issued chips bare some of the costs, I don't know but the point is it's a re-issue and should be made to be accessible.
I'm happy for those that want and have an opportunity to buy a Prophet 5 again, but I'm just not interested when looking at our local retailer here in Aus. The pre-order is at $5,999 for the 5-voice. Why is it almost a grand more than the Prophet 6/OB6? A bargain you say? pfff...


You said it yourself, everything else has become cheaper... why is that?

China

quote:

Originally posted by Teezdalien To be fair, you're right for the most part there. But genuine meaningful upgrades? C'mon, adding "vintage" slop control? So you're happy to pay extra because someone hand-soldered through-hole components the old fashioned way, which I highly doubt in this case anyway. I understand that it's an updated single board which makes SMT very likely, and frankly reduces the circuity costs pretty significantly. You're still paying mostly for the wooden housing. I suspect there wouldn't be a great deal of R&D overheads involved being a re-issue. Perhaps the re-issued chips bare some of the costs, I don't know but the point is it's a re-issue and should be made to be accessible. I'm happy for those that want and have an opportunity to buy a Prophet 5 again, but I'm just not interested when looking at our local retailer here in Aus. The pre-order is at $5,999 for the 5-voice. Why is it almost a grand more than the Prophet 6/OB6? A bargain you say? pfff... You said it yourself, everything else has become cheaper... why is that?

The reason other stuff has become cheaper is because of 40 years of production refinement and technological advancement. That's why it's more expensive than the more recent synths.

It's also not just 'a vintage knob'. They've added all filter/chip revision, velocity, aftertouch, USB, enhanced unison, enhanced glide....

There are other hidden costs as well such as local approvals for electronic goods to be sold.

And of course then there's mass production. Korg can probably sell 20-30,000 Minilogues, they might sell 1000-2000 P5/10's. The more you make, the cheaper it is to make more.

It's just not expensive, it's about where it should be for what it is.

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord The reason other stuff has become cheaper is because of 40 years of production refinement and technological advancement. That's why it's more expensive than the more recent synths. It's also not just 'a vintage knob'. They've added all filter/chip revision, velocity, aftertouch, USB, enhanced unison, enhanced glide.... There are other hidden costs as well such as local approvals for electronic goods to be sold. And of course then there's mass production. Korg can probably sell 20-30,000 Minilogues, they might sell 1000-2000 P5/10's. The more you make, the cheaper it is to make more. It's just not expensive, it's about where it should be for what it is.

Yes, some of this is what I've been alluding to, and a lot of it just reinforces my point. I respect your opinion and appreciate you chiming in, but we clearly hold different values and seem to be holding opposite positions for pretty much the same reasons.

I'm not convinced it's not expensive for what it is. I realise it's not trying to be innovative, and I'd likely be somewhat less critical if it were more in line with the Prophet 6/OB6, but as it is I'm just left scratching my head a bit. I think it's really paying a premium for a collectors item, for the arbitrary short supply and for the prestige of being branded as a Prophet 5.

Yes I agree these listed features are not trivial, but these are standard parameters and features you would expect on a newly released synth at almost any price point at this stage and it would be shocking if they weren't included.

I don't know if I really want to get into the can of worms that is China. At the end of the day this is just my opinion, and yeah it stinks just like everybody else.

quote:

Originally posted by Teezdalien Yes, some of this is what I've been alluding to, and a lot of it just reinforces my point. I respect your opinion and appreciate you chiming in, but we clearly hold different values and seem to be holding opposite positions for pretty much the same reasons. I'm not convinced it's not expensive for what it is. I realise it's not trying to be innovative, and I'd likely be somewhat less critical if it were more in line with the Prophet 6/OB6, but as it is I'm just left scratching my head a bit. I think it's really paying a premium for a collectors item, for the arbitrary short supply and for the prestige of being branded as a Prophet 5. Yes I agree these listed features are not trivial, but these are standard parameters and features you would expect on a newly released synth at almost any price point at this stage and it would be shocking if they weren't included. I don't know if I really want to get into the can of worms that is China. At the end of the day this is just my opinion, and yeah it stinks just like everybody else.

Seems to me that you won't buy anything at all if that is the attitude you will take with each product

quote:

Originally posted by Teezdalien I'm not convinced it's not expensive for what it is. I realise it's not trying to be innovative, and I'd likely be somewhat less critical if it were more in line with the Prophet 6/OB6, but as it is I'm just left scratching my head a bit. I think it's really paying a premium for a collectors item, for the arbitrary short supply and for the prestige of being branded as a Prophet 5.

But it's not a Prophet 6 or OB6, they are different things.

It seems that you're assuming there's an artificial premium being added because of 'badge', but (especially in this climate) that's just not how business works. Generally speaking a product is released to appeal to as many people as possible, not to price gouge people out of possible ownership, that doesn't make sense.

Believe it or not, the extra wood used in the Prophet 5/10 likely adds hundreds of dollars to the retail price alone. The retail price usually being about 3 x the manufacturing cost.

🤠 A new workstation from Kurzweil has been announced, the *drum roll* K2700. No price info yet. I'm guessing it will be competing against the Kronos.

🤠 Oh yeah & a Devil Fish TD-3.

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