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-- Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11?
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Originally posted by culorut So far I only notice ignorance in you, millions of people on a global scale continue to spread word of a truth and it continues to grow because the story fits better than the official one. Not all are poor and the majority of these millions of people are also smarter than you.

An argumentum ad populum (Latin: "appeal to the people"), in logic, is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or all people believe it; it alleges that "If many believe so, it is so." In ethics this argument is stated, "If many find it acceptable, it is acceptable."

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Originally posted by culorut Which is exactly what the link explains, that open source journals do usually have a publication fee. No where was anyone hiding that and this is what is called nit picking. I guess you did not bother to read the link I provided either, good one mr. engineer. As for the advancements made because of this now peer reviewed paper, well it's a little obvious...to shut up the critics and let the truth about what happened on 9/11 continue to spread like wildfire.

the truth? your camp cant even agree on ONE COMPLETE THEORY of what you think happened.... at any give point in time since 9/11 there has been some form of controlled demolition theory coupled with thermite/thermate, coupled with low frequency energy weaponry, coupled with focused nuclear demolition, with CIA dummy planes, or rockets and chuck norris..... plus the odd flavor of the month idea..

if your idea of the truth is this jumbled and colluded i can only imagine what happens when you get 3 troofers in a room during jeopardy....

Another four/five posts which still cannot refute the claims made in the peer reviewed paper.

Good job gentlemen.

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Originally posted by culorut Another four/five posts which still cannot refute the claims made in the peer reviewed paper. Good job gentlemen.

Why refute something I basically agree with?

The real question is why would a conspiracy theorist write something that I agree with and then pay to have it published in a vanity journal?

oh yeah, and its not a fucking "paper" you uneducated whelp. its a letter.

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ok buddy, i actually live in NYC (actually jersey city, but it's much closer than canada), i take the train into the world trade center 5 days a week, and those 3000 people that died were MY neighbors. I have much more at stake in this than you, and almost everyone on this board. The thing i don't care about is stupid conspiracy theories. Since you conspiracy theorists think it's a big Bush administration plot, your concerns about these sorts of lies are increasingly becoming moot because the Bush administration has only 9 months remaining in office.

You are mad at people for looking into why thousands of innocent people died for no reason?

Why not show your anger at your government that was warned from multiple countries that there was an attack coming well ahead of time? (FACT)

RUSSIA

www.whatreallyhappened.com/russianwarning.html

IRAN

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jan/24/usa.september11

FRANCE

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Repor...e_911_0416.html

EGYPT

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...755C0A9649C8B63



Let me guess you guys think the rest of world is lying but the same government which told you Iraq had WMD's are being honest with you on this one?

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Originally posted by culorut Another four/five posts which still cannot refute the claims made in the peer reviewed paper. Good job gentlemen.

Jesus, guys, when will you all learn that the FBI and CIA are not friends with the administration. Bush strikes blow after blow of disrespect to these agencies, any shady play with 9/11 would have had way LEAK after LEAK (willingly so by people on the inside).

I know dozens of people that died that day, if there's someone who wants the truth, it's me and the millions of people that live here. My dad worked there and he came home smelling like jet fuel with ashes all over his clothes and face. He said the entire building smelled of fuel, there was no insane underground explosion... It just kinda.... came down.... as he ran away from it.



Case closed.

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Originally posted by culorut So far I only notice ignorance in you, millions of people on a global scale continue to spread word of a truth

Millions of people, but no New Yorkers. Believe me, we did our hours- and days-long of research and we came up with nothing to refute what we saw and heard with our own eyes.

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Originally posted by culorut The official story does not hold enough weight to convince me (and millions of others) that these people deserved to die in such a manner.

Nobody's trying to convince you that they deserved to die. If you think that's what someone in disagreement with you is trying to do, then you've misinterpreted our message a bit much.

quote:

Millions of people, but no New Yorkers. Believe me, we did our hours- and days-long of research and we came up with nothing to refute what we saw and heard with our own eyes.

I have to disagree, there are many people in New York including the rescue workers who strongly believe that the official story is white wash.

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Nobody's trying to convince you that they deserved to die. If you think that's what someone in disagreement with you is trying to do, then you've misinterpreted our message a bit much.

I know they did not deserve to die, I meant that the official story put out by the government and the hired agencies are not no where good enough to keep quiet on the subject. The thousands who did die cannot speak presently so the people who do know the official story is bullshit should make it known to everyone that justice was not served.

These same criminals are still running your country.

Tremendous paper written by NASA scientist Ryan Mackey, and illustrates why david ray griffin is nothing but a charlatan.


http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/drg_nist_review_2_0.doc

it's a long read but for those that preach their commitment to "truth" i would expect them to dive in head-first

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Originally posted by culorut I have to disagree, there are many people in New York including the rescue workers who strongly believe that the official story is white wash. I know they did not deserve to die, I meant that the official story put out by the government and the hired agencies are not no where good enough to keep quiet on the subject. The thousands who did die cannot speak presently so the people who do know the official story is bullshit should make it known to everyone that justice was not served. These same criminals are still running your country.

Our government is too inept to wipe their own ass without fucking up and getting exposed, much less getting away with something like 9/11. They tried outting a CIA operative and practically got shut down and put out to dry, "pwned" for those in the back. They tried lying about Iraq, and although this country fell for it, their lies are transparent and we've pretty much caught on, a few years later. They lie like 11 year olds who don't know how to keep a straight face when doing it. You're giving them WAYYYY too much credit to say they planned something so intricate as what any of the 9/11 conspiracies say they did. One of Bush's many enemies in the CIA would have leaked any semblance of foul play related to any planning of that day, in an instant. As for New Yorkers, don't tell me what the general belief is over here, me and jerZ07002 know for ourselves. We all fell into this conspiracy trap years before the international community, and we climbed right back out of it with a little common sense and ability to say "Hmmm wait a second." The average conspiracy theorist would tell the general public "Don't believe everything you're told," when it's themselves who need to follow the same advice. Joe Schmo with movie software and editing skills who just quit his day job and wants to spew his ideas on 9/11 on others doesn't necessarily know more than me and you. He's just a Joe Schmo with movie software and editing skills who just quit his day job. This is in no way a jab at you, just an effort to get you to question, "Wait a second... Who's behind these websites, documentaries, and personal conspiracy blogs?"... Conspiracy theorist literature is just as riveting and engrossing as a good-old mystery, romance, or erotic novel.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut You are mad at people for looking into why thousands of innocent people died for no reason? Why not show your anger at your government that was warned from multiple countries that there was an attack coming well ahead of time? (FACT) RUSSIA www.whatreallyhappened.com/russianwarning.html IRAN www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jan/24/usa.september11 FRANCE http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Repor...e_911_0416.html EGYPT http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...755C0A9649C8B63 Let me guess you guys think the rest of world is lying but the same government which told you Iraq had WMD's are being honest with you on this one?

if foreign governments were warning the US that terrorists were going to attack, and that actually happened, why do you insist that it wasn't terrorists?

those articles don't support your theory, they only show that the US didn't take those threats as credible.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 those articles don't support your theory, they only show that the US didn't take those threats as credible.

I came to the same conclusion as well.......

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Originally posted by LazFX I came to the same conclusion as well.......

either that, or the threats weren't specific enough to actually stop them.


in any event, try again culorut because it doesn't help you.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Tremendous paper written by NASA scientist Ryan Mackey, and illustrates why david ray griffin is nothing but a charlatan. http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/drg_nist_review_2_0.doc it's a long read but for those that preach their commitment to "truth" i would expect them to dive in head-first

i skimmed this today on my lunch break, pretty well written and sourced, also avoided context issues while citing current research.

it just goes to show how selective the truth movement is when it picks its "evidence"


if you accuse a person of stealing a bike and enter the bike as evidence but neglect to mention the receipt that they had for the purchase of the bike, its a tad dishonest.

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 either that, or the threats weren't specific enough to actually stop them. in any event, try again culorut because it doesn't help you.

You did not read the links provided then, the threats where very specific.

It astonishes me that everyone believes that the governemtn is not capable of pulling off 911/letting it happen (same difference really). They already lied about WMD's and over 1 MILLION Iraqi's are dead, yet they are still in power smiling and lying in your face.

Maybe everyone likes to turn a blind eye to murders and criminals but when people all around the world raise some dam good questions these millions of people must be crazy....

quote:

Originally posted by culorut You did not read the links provided then, the threats where very specific. It astonishes me that everyone believes that the governemtn is not capable of pulling off 911/letting it happen (same difference really). They already lied about WMD's and over 1 MILLION Iraqi's are dead, yet they are still in power smiling and lying in your face. Maybe everyone likes to turn a blind eye to murders and criminals but when people all around the world raise some dam good questions these millions of people must be crazy....

Stop using the expression "millions". You have absolutely no way to verify that there are indeed millions of truthers. Indeed, all the evidence is to the contrary.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut It astonishes me that everyone believes that the governemtn is not capable of pulling off 911/letting it happen (same difference really).

No, it's not the same difference. They are very different. Planning an attack on your own country is not the same as having your head up your ass too far to see an attack coming. It's like a soccer player who turns 180 and shoots on his own net vs. a soccer player who's asleep in defense and gets pwned. Those aren't the same, man, sorry.

What about a defender who is asleep and has his head up his ass because he knows when his team loses he will become rich off betting against himself?

When those in power specifically call for 'another pearl harbor' it makes you wonder did they really have their head up their ass because they are inept, or because they want you to think they are inept.

quote:

Stop using the expression "millions". You have absolutely no way to verify that there are indeed millions of truthers. Indeed, all the evidence is to the contrary.

There are more here and everywhere I seem to look. You must have comprehension problems or something of that matter.

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Originally posted by Zild What about a defender who is asleep and has his head up his ass because he knows when his team loses he will become rich off betting against himself? When those in power specifically call for 'another pearl harbor' it makes you wonder did they really have their head up their ass because they are inept, or because they want you to think they are inept.

Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by culorut There are more here and everywhere I seem to look.

you're either a liar or deluded. truthers are a minority, as evidenced by their lackluster turnout at protests, their low net traffic, and the fact that the "movement" hasn't actually achieved anything in 7 years. If there are THAT many people, why does nobody care about you outside a few internet sites? When is the second investigation coming? Where is your peer-reviewed paper that provides evidence for controlled demolition?

Its ok to think youre right while the rest of us are wrong, but its ridiculous for you to throw around terms like "millions" without providing any evidence in support. Ive already provided mine with that list of 911 CT page hits. Pretty obvious how small the movement really is.

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Originally posted by Zild When those in power specifically call for 'another pearl harbor' it makes you wonder did they really have their head up their ass because they are inept, or because they want you to think they are inept.

Im surprised someone as scientific and supposedly rational would be happy in repeating known fallacies and lies of the truth movement. Have you even read the PNAC document?

quote:

Originally posted by culorut It astonishes me that everyone believes that the governemtn is not capable of pulling off 911/letting it happen (same difference really). They already lied about WMD's and over 1 MILLION Iraqi's are dead, yet they are still in power smiling and lying in your face.

bro, those links say that foreign governments warned the US that al qaeda was going to attack, not that the CIA was stagging an attack on the US. Please explain how that supports your argument that the US is behind the attack. It actually refutes your claim.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Im surprised someone as scientific and supposedly rational would be happy in repeating known fallacies and lies of the truth movement. Have you even read the PNAC document?

Don't make me laugh. Of course I have. What I got from it was that they wanted to gear up to combat Russia and China which involved rebuilding and strengthening our military forces. It also said that doing this will take far too long unless a catalyzing event like another pearl harbor happens.

That makes me beg the question... Have YOU even read the document?

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Originally posted by Zild Don't make me laugh of course I have. What I got from it was that they wanted to gear up to combat Russia and China which involved rebuilding and strengthening our military forces. It also said that doing this will take far too long unless a catalyzing event like another pearl harbor happens. That makes me beg the question... Have YOU even read the document?

Yeah, well perhaps you should've spent less time with imaginary numbers and more time with "useless" subjects like history or women studies or political science if you want to argue about these things?

The catalysing event, or "new pearl harbour" refers to being unprepared for a style/technology of warfare, not that the US needs another sneak attack to get the populace behind wars in afghanistan and iraq (neither country is mentioned either).

Pearl harbour is only mentioned a couple of times in the entire document and it clearly refers to the evolution of military technology, and that the change of such will be a slow process, unless there's another event that forces the revolution of military affairs. Could you explain how the 911 attacks have spawned a new type of warfare similar to the dawn of the aircraft carrier age (which is mentioned alongside the pearl harbour reference)?

Only a one-eyed conspiracy theorist would argue the pearl harbour quotes are applicable to 9/11.

Because, you know, top secret nefarious plans are always put out in public documents, just so everyone is prepared for them when they attempt to pull the wool over everyone's eyes.

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