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-- Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11?
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Originally posted by hardcore trancer He didnt say anything wrong.Let me guess you think he is not American by saying things like that right?

I assume he is american being he is from florida and he said he has a responsibilty to get americans home. i don't question his 'american[ism]' just his judgement.

perhaps you should read what he wrote. He wants the islamists (the insurgents) to route out the crusaders (US military). How exactly can the insurrgents route out the crusaders without killing them? It's clear the islamists main tactic to route out the 'crusaders' is using road side bombs and car bombs, which are obviously meant to injure and kill.

supporting the withdrawal of american forces from iraq and supporting the islamists in their quest to force americans out of iraq are clearly not the same thing. I support the first option, but i absolutely do not support the second one. Krypton, on the other hand, supports the second option.

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Originally posted by Krypton If we are to be aggressive occupiers, then yes, I hope they route the hell out of our military. I don't want to live in an empire. I want to live in the America I was taught about in school. The America people don't hate. We are a hated country. If we could withdraw today, that would be great. I don't want anymore death. But guess what, as long as we occupy their country, there will be death of our soldiers. And for what? Bush's vision of democracy? That is the agenda I hope gets the shit kicked out of it. Sadly, it will take more death for us to realize the futility of carrying out this imperialist agenda. Yes I am American, but I will not support our troops simply out of patriotism, blind to the destruction we are causing to innocent people. That is where I support their resistance. I look upon them as freedom fighters, not terrorists. And guess what. No soldiers would be dying if we weren't there. I know... it's hard for war apologists to accept that... My father served two tours in Iraq AND Afghanistan. I haven't seen him in 3 years. I straight up tell him that I think we are imperialists and all that. He is a conservative. He certainly disagrees with me saying we are imperialists. But he does not agree with the Iraq War. He also always compares our current situation in America with the decline of the Roman Empire. Would I tell him, I hope the resistance routes the Americans out of Iraq? Yes I would. Would he be strongly against this. HELL YES. Now if we withdraw, no need for a route... The Islamic Revolution of Iraq will occur. The Americans are trying to suppress it. But they will not. They need to just withdraw.

that's just stupid. what if routing out americans means your father dies? is that something you support?

and in case you haven't learned anything from the past few years, more american deaths mean more american forces fighting. the way to withdraw isn't more violence, it's actually the opposite.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 that's just stupid. what if routing out americans means your father dies? is that something you support? and in case you haven't learned anything from the past few years, more american deaths mean more american forces fighting. the way to withdraw isn't more violence, it's actually the opposite.

Of course I don't want my father to die. But for any resistance movements for freedom, I will support their cause. Not materially of course... My responsibility is to do whatever I can to get our military to withdraw 100% from Iraq.

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Originally posted by Krypton Of course I don't want my father to die. But for any resistance movements for freedom, I will support their cause. Not materially of course... My responsibility is to do whatever I can to get our military to withdraw 100% from Iraq.

i will assume your youth is misguiding your words. i find it hard to believe you could be so callous with respect to a group that includes your father. i'm not saying support the war, but i'm certainly saying don't root against soldiers, many of whom are not there by choice. That also doesn't mean you have to support them, it just means don't root against them.

So many of them are not there by choice. My brother, a reservist in the NJ national guard, was sent to iraq for infantry when he was trained as civil support. He only went to pay for college. There are thousands of similar stories.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 i will assume your youth is misguiding your words. i find it hard to believe you could be so callous with respect to a group that includes your father. i'm not saying support the war, but i'm certainly saying don't root against soldiers, many of whom are not there by choice. That also doesn't mean you have to support them, it just means don't root against them. So many of them are not there by choice. My brother, a reservist in the NJ national guard, was sent to iraq for infantry when he was trained as civil support. He only went to pay for college. There are thousands of similar stories.

I get your point. You're probably right. I'm just getting so angry, I'll say fucked up shit...

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Originally posted by Krypton I get your point. You're probably right. I'm just getting so angry, I'll say fucked up shit...

lol...i definitely can relate to saying fucked up shit.

i understand your underlying theory, but the consequence of that theory is not something i am willing to accept or would ever accept.

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Originally posted by Krypton Of course I don't want my father to die. But for any resistance movements for freedom, I will support their cause. Not materially of course... My responsibility is to do whatever I can to get our military to withdraw 100% from Iraq.

I see your point a little. Everytime I hear the fighters in Iraq deemed "terrorists", I shake my head. It's an awkward situation. Part of me says I'd be doing the same thing if I were born in Iraq and 21 years old over there, I'd be fighting. I imagine a megacountry like China occupying the USA under the pretense that we have nukes and a dangerous government, and I imagine myself in the streets fighting to the death.

However, I wouldn't go so far to support the general Islamist military movement. In one of your posts, you gave exception to Al-Qaida, saying "except them." However, to many of these countries and neighbors of countries, the groups you mentioned are THEIR Al-Qaida. The situation in that entire region is fucked up, and I can't really say anyone is on the correct side of it. If the Iraqi insurgents weren't fighting us, they'd be fighting amongst themselves, and that's what I can't really understand. Thus, I see your point but to some degree, there's so many factors to it that won't let me support their cause.

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Originally posted by DJ Eco In one of your posts, you gave exception to Al-Qaida, saying "except them." However, to many of these countries and neighbors of countries, the groups you mentioned are THEIR Al-Qaida.

Really? Hezbullah and Hamas are fighting the Israeli occupation sure they might use tactics that you might call "terrorism" but buttom line is they are fighting the Israeli mighty millatary.The only country that looks at them as "Al-Qaida is Israel and the U.S. so technically apply to all their neighbors.

when it comes to Iran again the same thing just because Israel and the U.S are against them doesnt mean they are the "Al-Qaida of that region and all their neighbors look at them as terrorist.They never attacked or tried to occupy any countries around them.Yet the west continues to lable them as a terrorist nation.

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If the Iraqi insurgents weren't fighting us, they'd be fighting amongst themselves

IF you werent there in the first place there wouldnt be any fights between these groups to begin with since Saddam would never have let his country to be in such chaos.I dont want to sounds like a broken record here but the fact is that the roots of this conflict is directly from the results of the U.S occupation of that country.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer

Are you farsi-speaking Persian?

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Originally posted by Krypton Are you farsi-speaking Persian?

Iranians language is Farsi.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer Iranians language is Farsi.

Are you from Tehran?

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer Really? Hezbullah and Hamas are fighting the Israeli occupation sure they might use tactics that you might call "terrorism" but buttom line is they are fighting the Israeli mighty millatary.The only country that looks at them as "Al-Qaida is Israel and the U.S. so technically apply to all their neighbors. when it comes to Iran again the same thing just because Israel and the U.S are against them doesnt mean they are the "Al-Qaida of that region and all their neighbors look at them as terrorist.They never attacked or tried to occupy any countries around them.Yet the west continues to lable them as a terrorist nation. IF you werent there in the first place there wouldnt be any fights between these groups to begin with since Saddam would never have let his country to be in such chaos.I dont want to sounds like a broken record here but the fact is that the roots of this conflict is directly from the results of the U.S occupation of that country.

You obviously didn't get the point of my post. My first sentence basically says that I DON'T consider them terrorists. I even went as far to say that I'd be fighting if I were from that area and within the circumstances. I don't know how clearer I can get about how negatively I view the American occupation of Iraq. As far as Al-Qaida is concerned, I was replying to Krypton's post. He said "I am in support of the Islamist causes in the Middle East, exceptions being Al-Qaida" and I replied to show that the exception shouldn't be made for Al-Qaida simply because they've hurt us, you either believe in their cause or not, no exceptions. Al-Qaida attacked us because of whatever reason we supposedly gave them to do so. And the other militant groups are attacking their targets of choice because of whatever reason they were given to do so too. To believe in the cause, but say "with exception to whenever the cause affects US" is a bit irrational, as you can see from him taking back his statement a bit. Also, keep in mind, there is much more militant activity than Hamas, Hezbollah or Iran. From Indonesia to Eastern Europe there is unrest and conflict (both big and small), I didn't mean to single any of them out. To support an Islamist military movement and its cause is to support a lot of causes as every region each few hundred miles seems to be fighting for a different cause. My statement is unbiased and you can see that by my view and agreement with you that the US fucks shit up everywhere it puts its hands on (lately).

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Originally posted by Krypton Are you from Tehran?

Yes I was born there.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer Yes I was born there.

ahh..You ever been to a "death to america" rally?

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Originally posted by Krypton ahh..You ever been to a "death to america" rally?

LOL,yeah man every weekend!!:P jk

lol, I hope they really don't mean death to america. Just death to the idiots who run it...

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Originally posted by Krypton lol, I hope they really don't mean death to america. Just death to the idiots who run it...

Of course they mean death to america, what planet are you from?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Of course they mean death to america, what planet are you from?

It's obviously nationalistic political rhetoric in their fight against perceived imperialism. It seems like they don't realize that all Americans don't support the hegemonic foreign policy of Washington...

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Originally posted by Krypton It's obviously nationalistic political rhetoric in their fight against perceived imperialism. It seems like they don't realize that all Americans don't support the hegemonic foreign policy of Washington...

No more than average americans don�t realise that not everyone in the middle east is a terrorist

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN No more than average americans don�t realise that not everyone in the middle east is a terrorist

Exactly...so what are we talking about?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN No more than average americans don�t realise that not everyone in the middle east is a terrorist

americans don't think that all in the middle east are terrorists, it's just the muslims.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Of course they mean death to america, what planet are you from?

hmm thats not true at all. Majority of people there dont hate the American people/culture,but when it comes to Bush and his administration it is hard not to hate them for the all the shit they have caused in the world and the fact that all these sanctions against Iran is really effecting everyone encluding both extremists and non extremists.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 americans don't think that all in the middle east are terrorists, it's just the muslims.

God bless America.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer God bless America.

that was clearly a joke, or maybe not so clearly.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 that was clearly a joke, or maybe not so clearly.

It is the truth for the most part no?

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