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BPM Contolling...Cheating? or Solution?
I want to know if using BPM control or mapping (whatever its called) used with a turntable can be regarded as cheating?
I'm talking about that little gadget that tells you the BPM on each channel.
I've found my BPM counter to be around the correct value, but nothing can beat a pair of human ears to perfectly match beats.
Some people consider BPM counters to be detrimental to learning how to beatmatch because you aren�t analyzing the sounds to see what has to be adjusted. I got very frustrated while learning how to beatmatch; I look back on it and I would go through it again with ought a BPM counter.
Not cheating, just taking the fastest way.
You are there to DJ right, that means the whole spectrum from choosing
what vinyls to play to mixing.
If you are gonna have a BPM counter tell you how fast the vinyl is gonna spin then you might just get a laptop with winamp with your
tunes there because for me 70% of the whole experience is beatmatching.
Nothing can beat a groovy mix where they just flow together in total
harmoniy and you KNOW that YOU matched that perfectly. Not a little
counter with red lcd's. Personally I would be dissapointed if I
went to see someone like Armin, Digweed, Sasha or someone else that
is big and see that they used a BPM counter, I would leave the party.
most bpm counters are off a bit. i guess if you had 2 seconds to mix you could use it.
Technology has made us lazy. Just because two tracks are beatmatched doesnt mean you can mix them together or that they sound good with each other. Use your ears and your mix will be that much better
Simple. Beat matching is an art. It is only one part of mixing from one song to another. Granted, its a BIG part of the process, but without it, the mix is a mess.
Using your ears, finding that perfect pitch, getting songs matched so they play perfect over the span of a minute - there is something so beautiful, something untouchable by that. Beat counters take that joy away - and also, they are only so accurate. If you teach yourself to use your ears, to beatmatch yourself, the rest of your set will benefit as well.
Don't cheat on an artform. Don't trace over the work of a computer. Take the time, learn the process, respect the work. By learning to beatmatch, you also condition your mind and ears to work together, you learn to play the mix through in your head, you learn to work on the fly. Don't cheat yourself of the perfect mix.
~Azareal
| quote: |
| Originally posted by dj raymond wade Technology has made us lazy. Just because two tracks are beatmatched doesnt mean you can mix them together or that they sound good with each other. Use your ears and your mix will be that much better |
I used to think the same way about beat counters until I bought a mixer with one built in. From the first time I used it I've found it totally worthless in helping me mix. The only useful thing about it is if you're pitched up too far but too caught in the moment to notice, the counter could help you out. I know it can sound really bad playing certain styles of music at too high or low a bpm rate.
It's not cheating, but it doesn't matter because it's impossible to beatmatch with just bmp-counters.
it helps you out 
tho try not to reply on it too much
and its all good.
dj'ing is an ART!
its ok to use a beatcounter
if you already know how to beatmix.
replying on it isn't too good, remmeber that not everywhere club or everywhere you go would have one of those.
but if just mixing at home sure, use it. it can only do good, make things faster and quicker.
but do make sure you know how to beatmix without one, aswell.
it just comes in handy sometimes
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Blake613 nothing can beat a pair of human ears to perfectly match beats. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Azareal: Simple. Beat matching is an art. It is only one part of mixing from one song to another. Granted, its a BIG part of the process, but without it, the mix is a mess. Using your ears, finding that perfect pitch, getting songs matched so they play perfect over the span of a minute - there is something so beautiful, something untouchable by that. Beat counters take that joy away - and also, they are only so accurate. If you teach yourself to use your ears, to beatmatch yourself, the rest of your set will benefit as well. Don't cheat on an artform. Don't trace over the work of a computer. Take the time, learn the process, respect the work. By learning to beatmatch, you also condition your mind and ears to work together, you learn to play the mix through in your head, you learn to work on the fly. Don't cheat yourself of the perfect mix. ~Azareal |
I know this gay ass DJ who uses the BPM counter all the time, and he still cant mix right. I think you would have to fully master beatmatching in order to benefit from the BPM counter. I use BPM counter just to see how fast im going....that's about it. I rather trust my ears than a machine.....expect for calculators
A good friend of mine used one when she was starting out. Between me showing her what to listen for and how to mix and using a beatcounter she was able to learn a bit quicker.
The problem arose when she played out at her first party. She was so used to using the beat counter as a crutch that she couldn't mix confidently without it and ended up playing a pretty awful set.
Take it as you may, but the only thing you'll ever be able to rely on is your own ability to mix, not a machine.
Skipping to learn beatmatching also makes you vulnerable in other
parts of the mixing. Practicing beatmatching has taught me one thing
and that is to train my memory on how certain tunes sound, how hard
the beat is and how the beat sounds so I more easily can deceide
what tunes to line up after to fit the set better.
Beatmatching isnt only frustrating and occupies alot of time, it
teaches you a great lot of the music you are listening to, learning
you to notice the small details that you need to know, the small
details that you wont miss after having trainwrecked the same tune
over and over again.
Dammit, this is what makes mixing so fun, learning and becoming your
own DJ by learning and creating your own style!
Not by looking at a counter and trying to line up the tunes like
a robot just to "look cool" and "be popular".
dam azareal, I wuz listening to some trance singles, but after reading your post, I went and put in a mix cd!
Reading these posts makes me want to learn to mix so ridiculously bad. Its crazy, I thot about a bpm counter a while ago, on my own (since I've only seen 1 dj mix live without one), and I thot that owuld be pretty gay. But I guess they are indeed used sometimes.
i never used BPM counters, but i find it hard to believe that the resolution ( no decimals ) is enough for the _exact_ tempo. + you have to count or "feel" the beat anyways ( start at the 1st beat and not the 3rd in 4/4 tempo and so on)
If I'm in a club and see a DJ with a DJM500 or 600 and he's using it to mix all his vinyls, he does not get my respect. Really DJing comes down to how much respect you get from the audience, especially ones in the know about this sort of thing. You COULD bring your laptop and use PCDJ, and you COULD even play the files through Windows Media Player, but let me tell you, you'll be FLAMED to high heaven (or hell!)
Nothing impresses more than someone doing the classic vinyl mix, which is why we DJs still do it. It's not like vinyl is current with technology, but it's just about the respect, the quality of the albums, and the experience for us!
So in other words, don't use a BPM counter at a club if you want to be respected fully for your skillz. Use it if you need to quick mixes (like if you are doing announcing, especially over the radio 
)
if djs used bpm counters they would be able to spend thier time planning the transition and choosing new songs instead of beat matching
yes it is important, but who cares how its done , ITS NOT MAKING THE MIX FOR HIM
Being a breaks lover, it's quite useless to have the beat counter anyway. They aren't smart enough to detect the beginning and end of a 4/4 beat if you don't have a constant bassdrum-snare-bassdrum-snare beat scheme.
It'll throw you way off if you have a bassdrum-bassdrum-snare-bassdrum-bassdrum-bassdrum-snare scheme.
i wouldnt say using the bpm is cheating, but if you choose to use it, you would definitely be cheating yourself. if you were to adopt its usage, practice day in day out, therefore becoming reliant and dependent on it, what happens one day if a mixer without a bpm counter crossed ur path, or what happens on a day u accidently left ur bpm counter at home. ur utterly screwed. best tools in the business are your ears. you can trust them, so use them.
:) ah 2 page topic about beatcounters? hmm
| quote: |
| JohnnyBravo "....using a beatcounter she was able to learn a bit quicker. The problem arose when she played out at her first party. She was so used to using the beat counter as a crutch that she couldn't mix confidently without it and ended up playing a pretty awful set. Take it as you may, but the only thing you'll ever be able to rely on is your own ability to mix, not a machine." |
| quote: |
| webbie "Dammit, this is what makes mixing so fun, learning and becoming your own DJ by learning and creating your own style!" |
| quote: |
| Flec "if djs used bpm counters they would be able to spend thier time planning the transition and choosing new songs instead of beat matching yes it is important, but who cares how its done , ITS NOT MAKING THE MIX FOR HIM" |
Let's say you learn how to beatmatch on your mixer with a counter... you get a gig at your local club, and... they have a mixer w/o a counter. What kind of thoughts and emotions are going through your head now?
I don't object to using a BPM counter as a leanring tool but that's all it is, a tool. Kind of like traning wheels on your bike.
(I did learn beatmatching w/o a BMP counter and I am glad I went through the frustrating times)
I learnt to mix on a piece of shit mixer, 2 turntables which didnt hold pitch and NO BPM counters... Now, I can beatmatch almost perfectly every time within 30sec... I don't think that I'm some amazing DJ with a freak talent, but I believe that if you learn on shit equipment, and can mix well on that, then, once you get good equipment, you're going to be better than you would be if you started with BPM counters...
Anyway, I'm using a DJM-600 at the moment, and I keep the BPM counters turned off, because IMO they dont work anything near as well as the human ear.. They just put me off and make me doubt my ability to match ("I'm sure this is matched perfectly, but the BPM counters say otherwise") ..
All those posts up there can be summed up in one phrase...
BPM Counters are for losers!
that's cheating AND degrading
I can do it in 20 secs
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