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Liberation of Iraq has just occured

They're free, they're happy. All those against this now look like idiots.

couldnt agree with u more, hell yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So to all u antiwar people, here it is. SMILE

Tell that to this kid:

stfu, there's always casualties of war get over it. Shit why don't I post a bunch of victims from suicide bombings in Israel.

Your stupid fucking scare me and make me feel bad technique by using innocent victims is quite stupid. Yes, it's sad bout what happened to the child so maybe you can make a couple threads depicting the horror of the war, you'll horrify those other peaceniks, reinforcing their views against the war, and maybe some ppl for the war, but god damnit GET OVER IT! IF YOU THINK PEACE IS GONNA SOLVE EVERYTHING, IN THIS WORLD ESPECIALLY, THEN YOU'RE SO DAMN FUCKING BLIND. The war is over, but the violence still goes on.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnSmith Tell that to this kid:

Tell these people that taking out Saddam was wrong:







On second thoughts your probably won't be able to tell them because they were all thoroughly gassed.

ha, in your face......

how great finally iraq is free , but WHAT'S THE PRICE TO PAY ? is america gonna take all the oil to say this is what it costs you ?

quote:

Originally posted by fastmp3 how great finally iraq is free , but WHAT'S THE PRICE TO PAY ? is america gonna take all the oil to say this is what it costs you ?

No

Don't forget that Iraqis have 30 years of pretending to be happy. When I see an Iraqi in a car giving the camera the thumbs up, saying "Go Bush", I cannot help question how much this man really know about Bush, except he's the new guy with all the armed people doing his dirty work. Same thing about the people with the signs saying Bush is the hero of peace, the guy banging his shoe at a Saddam poster while it is being torn down, etc.
I'm not saying that the invasion is not worth the price of the casualties or something similar, only that the reactions we see now might not be genuine. Hopefully, Iraqis will come to love being free of Saddam later, but right now they seem to me like a confused bunch of people who have been used to pretend to be happy and now do not know what to do with themselves, and fall back into routine.

Best regards
An old cynic

libbies eat your heart out.

quote:

Originally posted by Cracka-X libbies eat your heart out.

OH MY FUCKING #$%?#? STUPID ARAB

quote:

Originally posted by fastmp3 OH MY FUCKING #$%?#? STUPID ARAB

Haha cuz he's not conforming with the arab doctrine of hate for the united states?

and you people critisize those who despise anti-war demonstrators for their support of Saddam ... how hypocritical.

Why do I get a sense that many anti-war people here were wishing that the citizens of Iraq would resist US liberation and engage in bloody fights that would cause MORE civilian casualties just so they could tell all of us I told you so?

Perhaps some of you need to question your own motives in your support for your beliefs

I don't see why these people are free

they still can't say what they want to say, now they have to say that they love the Americans instead of saying, we love Saddam. Their possesions can get stolen, you see that everything is being stolen on TV. there is no control of everything

The Iraqi people are free when there is a democraticly chosen government!!

War wasn't the hard part for the US; that is yet to come, in the rebuilding. Let's hope all hope for the best.

quote:

Originally posted by Blik I don't see why these people are free they still can't say what they want to say, now they have to say that they love the Americans instead of saying, we love Saddam. Their possesions can get stolen, you see that everything is being stolen on TV. there is no control of everything The Iraqi people are free when there is a democraticly chosen government!!

Why can't they say what they want to say? I haven't heard of any Iraqis getting thrown in jail for voicing opposition to the US or getting tortured. And of course there's going to be brief periods of anarchy after the government is toppled. That has happened in any war. Control will be reestablished much like things are getting reorganized in Basra. Geez people give things TIME! You think that the US rolls in, captures baghdad, and a parlimentary government appears out of nowhere to adiminster the country??? Haha you're like one of those people that thought the war would be over in 3 days.

But the Iraqis are now FREE from oppression by Sadam's Baathe party.

Geez everybody used to be "ohhh the war's going to be terrible, it's going to kill thousands upon thousands of civilians, it's going to drag on for months". Now that the war is over people are saying "well, the war wasn't the hard part, it's the Reconstruction that's going to be awful blah blah blah." You're all a bunch of naggy old woman! Why don't we WAIT to see what happens and THEN voice approval, disapproval, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Why can't they say what they want to say? I haven't heard of any Iraqis getting thrown in jail for voicing opposition to the US or getting tortured. And of course there's going to be brief periods of anarchy after the government is toppled. That has happened in any war. Control will be reestablished much like things are getting reorganized in Basra. Geez people give things TIME! You think that the US rolls in, captures baghdad, and a parlimentary government appears out of nowhere to adiminster the country??? Haha you're like one of those people that thought the war would be over in 3 days. But the Iraqis are now FREE from oppression by Sadam's Baathe party.

I did not think that this war would be over in 3 days, I thought it would last for at least a month. But don't say that the people are free because they removed the Baathe party. There is a big risk that there will be a civil war between the Kurds, the Opposition and the Sji'iets. They all want some power in this new Iraq. There is a possibility that Iraq will be split in 3 separate countries because of this.

wait till your statements are true

quote:

Originally posted by Blik I did not think that this war would be over in 3 days, I thought it would last for at least a month. But don't say that the people are free because they removed the Baathe party. There is a big risk that there will be a civil war between the Kurds, the Opposition and the Sji'iets. They all want some power in this new Iraq. There is a possibility that Iraq will be split in 3 separate countries because of this. wait till your statements are true

Well then wait until your statements are true ... I haven't seen anything to indicate they aren't free.

1st up, war technically ain't over

2nd, judging from our ongoing reconstruction adventure in Afghanistan, I just don't have much faith in the current Administration's ability to reconstruct. Hopefully, these worries will turn out to be just worries.

Thirdly, nagging's fun

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeJulez War wasn't the hard part for the US; that is yet to come, in the rebuilding. Let's hope all hope for the best.

You are correct sir, though there is still some fighting. I was so happy to see all of those people celebrating!!! I can't even describe it. I'm pro regime change now.

There is much history yet to be written however.

p.s. Still anti-Geraldo

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeJulez 1st up, war technically ain't over

That is true ... latest info from the ministry of wishful thinking is that the Iraqi forces have achieved victory except for a few minor "technicalities"

Maybe they have a job opening for peter arnett haha

Give a starving person a piece of chocolate and a bubble gum and he'll be cheering for whatever you want him to. And as Blik said, things are getting stolen from all around the cities, those cities have fallen into complete anarchy, very few people will benefit from that.

Anyway, regardless of whether this is a positive or negative change for the Iraqi people (which has yet to be seen), this war has brought a very negative precedent with it. One country attacked another without solid reason, against the will of the UN, suffered no sanctions whatsoever, and failed to afterwards present the evidence which was the reason for the war.

So what does this mean now? US can tomorrow claim that [insert country] is developing a hideous weapon designed for mass murder, and that [insert leader] is a madman capable of using that weapon. This attack was a big risk, but it turned out to pay back big time to the republican and conservative elements in power. This attack was a proof that 70% of the american citizens are willing to support a war which is fought for fictious reasons, as long as you keep telling them those reasons exist. This reminds me of what Goebbels once said, a lie told a hudred times begins to sound like the truth. This strategy has been obviously adopted by the US leadership. Keep telling the people we have evidence of Saddam having WOMDs, keep telling them he is a madman who could use them anytime, keep telling them he's a serious threat to the US mainland, and sooner or later, they'll start to believe us and support us. Then silence the opposition votes by marking them as antipatriotic and subversive elements who are either not in touch with the reality, or are actively working against the good of the community, and voila, you have a massive public support with very few opposing voices which are not heard by many anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Give a starving person a piece of chocolate and a bubble gum and he'll be cheering for whatever you want him to. And as Blik said, things are getting stolen from all around the cities, those cities have fallen into complete anarchy, very few people will benefit from that. Anyway, regardless of whether this is a positive or negative change for the Iraqi people (which has yet to be seen), this war has brought a very negative precedent with it. One country attacked another without solid reason, against the will of the UN, suffered no sanctions whatsoever, and failed to afterwards present the evidence which was the reason for the war. So what does this mean now? US can tomorrow claim that [insert country] is developing a hideous weapon designed for mass murder, and that [insert leader] is a madman capable of using that weapon. This attack was a big risk, but it turned out to pay back big time to the republican and conservative elements in power. This attack was a proof that 70% of the american citizens are willing to support a war which is fought for fictious reasons, as long as you keep telling them those reasons exist. This reminds me of what Goebbels once said, a lie told a hudred times begins to sound like the truth. This strategy has been obviously adopted by the US leadership. Keep telling the people we have evidence of Saddam having WOMDs, keep telling them he is a madman who could use them anytime, keep telling them he's a serious threat to the US mainland, and sooner or later, they'll start to believe us and support us. Then silence the opposition votes by marking them as antipatriotic and subversive elements who are either not in touch with the reality, or are actively working against the good of the community, and voila, you have a massive public support with very few opposing voices which are not heard by many anyway.

ok let me get this straight, if u are from croatia, if the US had not gotten involved in ur region of the world, a whole race whould have been exterminated by Mr. Milosivic. so was that a lie, that he wasnt commiting genocide, not seen on such a large dgree since Hitler. You know what you are, your not pro-peace, you are pro-death, pro-dictatorship, pro-genocide, pro-people not being able to live a free life by themselves. thats what u are. keep telling yourself what ever you want, but u are in denial. so Iraq doesnt have WMD??? they have them, and its a matter of time before they are found

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Give a starving person a piece of chocolate and a bubble gum and he'll be cheering for whatever you want him to. And as Blik said, things are getting stolen from all around the cities, those cities have fallen into complete anarchy, very few people will benefit from that. Anyway, regardless of whether this is a positive or negative change for the Iraqi people (which has yet to be seen), this war has brought a very negative precedent with it. One country attacked another without solid reason, against the will of the UN, suffered no sanctions whatsoever, and failed to afterwards present the evidence which was the reason for the war. So what does this mean now? US can tomorrow claim that [insert country] is developing a hideous weapon designed for mass murder, and that [insert leader] is a madman capable of using that weapon. This attack was a big risk, but it turned out to pay back big time to the republican and conservative elements in power. This attack was a proof that 70% of the american citizens are willing to support a war which is fought for fictious reasons, as long as you keep telling them those reasons exist. This reminds me of what Goebbels once said, a lie told a hudred times begins to sound like the truth. This strategy has been obviously adopted by the US leadership. Keep telling the people we have evidence of Saddam having WOMDs, keep telling them he is a madman who could use them anytime, keep telling them he's a serious threat to the US mainland, and sooner or later, they'll start to believe us and support us. Then silence the opposition votes by marking them as antipatriotic and subversive elements who are either not in touch with the reality, or are actively working against the good of the community, and voila, you have a massive public support with very few opposing voices which are not heard by many anyway.

Allow me the opportunity to post this again:

http://www.dailytelegraph.co.uk/new.../ixnewstop.html

Further evidence will likely be found. And even IF none are found this war was not started out of fictitious reasons. Hussein was not in full compliance or in full cooperation with weapons inspectors as the US demanded in the truce agreement.

C'mon fellas, let's keep it civil.

I shouldn't really be awake this late, so I'll keep this short and sweet:

Firstly, nice words trancaholic. Like I said in the other post (mere hours before this fall of Baghdad became headline news) we should expect the days immediately following Saddam's removal to be a period of great shows of relief and open jubilation amongst the Iraqi people. Whether these shows are as common as the media are making out remains to be seen, but the fact is, yes, the Iraqi people are free of a monster, why shouldn't they celebrate?

quote:

They're free, they're happy. All those against this now look like idiots.

But, before we get all self-righteous and claim that we did the right thing by storming a largely defenceless nation in defiance of international opinion (I use the term "we" as a citizen of a member of the coalition of the willing), let's just keep it all in perspective. Firstly, the war was just the beginning of my reasons for opposing this war, and the state of Iraq afterwards still gives me some concerns. If a democratic government is chosen and everyone ends up happily ever after then I will quite gladly eat my hat and say that I was wrong, but - to be honest - I see no possibility of this happening, at least in the short to mid-term future. The Iraqi's will be free from torture and execution, sure, just just how free will they be really? It's going to be a military occupation for months, how long until the Iraqis catch onto the fact that the US and its idealogies are there to stay? How will the Iraqis respond to this?

Keep in mind, also, the impending humanitarian crises. The coalition forces have advanced relatively quickly, but in doing so have probably not adequately mopped resistence as they have progressed. How long until safe supply lines are cleared for adequate humanitarian aid to be delivered, especially to Basra and Baghdad? How many will die from lack of medicine and clean water before the nation is secure to import aid on demand?

Secondly, the main legal justification for going into this war was the threat that Iraq and its huge stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction posed to the rest of the world. As I see it, whether it turns out that there are some weapons in the country or not, the fact that Iraq has not used them - even in the face of an invasion - must surely pour cold water on the justification Powell gave in front of the UN on behalf of the Bush government for going to war? Remember, there is absolutely no legal justification for going to war just because you don't like the way the leader is treating his people - this legality of this war was dependant on the fact that Iraq possessed chemical/biological weapons and/or that it posed a threat to global security. If it has been shown that even in a situation in which the use of these weapons may have been expected (if you aren't going to use them in the defence of your own nation, when excactly are you likely to use them?), then, regardless of whether weapons turn up, how can Bush and his chums justify this war in preference to, say, escalated weapons inspections? Was the threat of Iraq using these weapons so great that thousands of Iraqis (including 900 odd civilians - at least) had to die? In the face of what hasn't happened here, I don't think so.

Finally, there seems to be a worrying implication here that the anti-war constituent expected everything to go badly from day one, and that anything bar a blood-bath renders the anti-war stance irrelevent ("see, it wasn't so bad, what're you all complaining about"?). It should be made absolutely clear that every single anti-war protester - once the war had been declared - wanted the war to go smoothly. Most predictions about the length of the war were at around the 4 week mark, so - by the time fighting ceases in the troubled north and in Baghdad - we seem to be pretty much on track. I think it's terribly unfair to say that war was the right action merely because it's going to finish within the designated timeframe and because some Iraqis have reacted to the fall of Baghdad by celebrating - afterall, it wasn't as though the much more peaceful, cheaper alternatives were given a chance to allow us to compare.

So, even though it will make me look like an idiot, I hope that this Iraqi optimism continues and that Iraq can benefit from this war. My reason for opposing the war was out of concern for the Iraqi people, so a happy ending where the Baghdadians go skipping off into the sunset will suit me just fine.

Yet, in spite of this, I still hold grave doubts for the future of Iraq. Perhaps we would all be best served by coming back in 2 (or 5, or 10) years and assessing just how beneficial this war was because, as I have said a million times and will continue to say, this war was just the beginning.

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