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Posted by FuzzyGreen on Apr-15-2003 02:06:

Censorship and Tranceaddict

Here in the USA if I was to go to a mall and wear a shirt that said, hmm.. "Tiesto is an asshole" I could wear it without any problems from police. But here, if I put that "so and so TA is an asshole" in my sig it gets censored. Why is that? Is it because most mods here grew up in PC censorship oriented countries? Please tell me why I am wrong and show me the light!

Thanks guys!

Posted by DJ Chrono on Apr-15-2003 02:11:

nice avatar

Posted by Lira on Apr-15-2003 02:16:

Re: Censorship and Tranceaddict

quote:
Originally posted by FuzzyGreen
Is it because most mods here grew up in PC censorship oriented countries?

What the hell are you talking about?

Posted by Swamper on Apr-15-2003 02:17:

When you first signed up on the forums you agreed to:

quote:

tranceaddict Forums Rules

Registration to this forum is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. If you agree to the terms, please press the Agree button at the end of the page. Note: By pressing the button you declare that you are over the age of 13. If you are 13 or under, please use this registration form.

Although the administrators and moderators of tranceaddict Forums will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of tranceaddict Forums or Jelsoft Enterprises Limited (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message.

By clicking the Agree button, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

The owners of tranceaddict Forums have the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.

Now obviously if every message that fell in those categories was removed/edited then this place could get boring - BUT - having comments on another user in your sig is both 'hateful' and 'threatening' and that's not what we're about here.

I have no idea what the circumstances are nor am I the one who touched your sig, but I agree with what they did.

Take your issues to PMs, Your sig/avatar is not a place to air dirty laundry.

Posted by fastmp3 on Apr-15-2003 02:22:

i am the one who edited his sig , and i PMed him right after to explain to him why , but he still felt like it was an injustice or something.

Posted by LKD on Apr-15-2003 02:22:

quote:
Originally posted by Swamper
Take your issues to PMs, Your sig/avatar is not a place to air dirty laundry.
wtf...how did u know i had soild my briefs in that pic in my sig

Posted by Thor on Apr-15-2003 02:51:

Re: Censorship and Tranceaddict

Posted by LKD on Apr-15-2003 02:54:

Re: Re: Censorship and Tranceaddict

quote:
Originally posted by Thor
This is a privately owned website and you have to agree to their rules when you sign up. You don't have some right to anything here, all the rights you have here are given to you and you have to respect them in order to use this BB.

So simple.

yep

came from the horses mouth

ermmm..i mean swamper's mouth

Posted by daydreamer on Apr-15-2003 03:19:

quote:
Originally posted by Swamper
When you first signed up on the forums you agreed to:

Now obviously if every message that fell in those categories was removed/edited then this place could get boring - BUT - having comments on another user in your sig is both 'hateful' and 'threatening' and that's not what we're about here.

I have no idea what the circumstances are nor am I the one who touched your sig, but I agree with what they did.

Take your issues to PMs, Your sig/avatar is not a place to air dirty laundry.

you tell him swamper.

Posted by LKD on Apr-15-2003 03:35:

quote:
Originally posted by daydreamer
you tell him swamper.

shutup bandwagon junkie

lol

*LKD changes sig to read "daydreamer is a tool"*

Posted by beema on Apr-15-2003 03:48:

Re: Censorship and Tranceaddict

Posted by FuzzyGreen on Apr-15-2003 04:45:

Yeah I understand that this is a privately owned web-site and Swamper can do whatever he wants with it. I think I just had a "blue-Monday" today. Glad you guys like my new sig and avatar.

Thanks for the web-site Swamper.

Posted by The Master on Apr-15-2003 05:57:

Re: Censorship and Tranceaddict

Posted by Photo_bot_2k1 on Apr-15-2003 07:11:

yeah ffs now i wanna see your sig

Posted by malek on Apr-15-2003 08:12:

I Love FuzzyGreen

Posted by Arbiter on Apr-15-2003 09:46:

Re: Censorship and Tranceaddict

quote:
Originally posted by FuzzyGreen
Here in the USA if I was to go to a mall and wear a shirt that said, hmm.. "Tiesto is an asshole" I could wear it without any problems from police. But here, if I put that "so and so TA is an asshole" in my sig it gets censored. Why is that? Is it because most mods here grew up in PC censorship oriented countries? Please tell me why I am wrong and show me the light!

Thanks guys!

I kind of agree with you that there's a problem, although when I saw your sig I didn't think it was appropriate. As much as people, such as many of those who have posted in this thread, would just like to pretend it doesn't exist, in my time here I have noticed the following issues:

1. The rules (not all, but most) are set forth in such a manner that no objective standard exists by which to evaluate them. As a result, it is merely the subjective opinion of a moderator which is used as the basis for instantaneous and unaccountable administrative action. While I think the moderators here typically do an excellent job, there have been many instances in which I and others feel they have overstepped a reasonable interpretation of the guidelines. Attempts to elicit a justification for their activities either by PM or on the boards are typically ignored, or responded to in terms so vague that one cannot objectively analyze them.

2. Rules and guidelines are not applied equally in many instances. While I generally agree with the ideas behind the guidelines, they are frequently applied with great variety in strictness or laxness depending on the individual in question. If this applied only to giving people breaks, I wouldn't think it was such a big deal. However, there has been more than one instance in which it is obvious to me that a moderator simply took a dislike of another individual, and proceeded to hound them about every possible application of the aforementioned guidelines.

3. Different mods tend to interpret the guidelines with great variety. As a result, no one knows that the real "unspoken" guidelines really are. As Swamper already pointed out, a strict literal interpretation of the guidelines is ridiculous. Yet, any other interpretation is essentially no more than the reader's opinion. As a result, one can never be certain whether or not one is in violation of the rules according to any given moderator's interpretation of them.

Personally, I think tranceaddict.com has a great community. However, I don't think that precludes us from trying to strengthen it even more. In my not so humble opinion, it would be a great boost to the community if the above issues were addressed, even partially. Controversies about the application of the rules seem to pop up on a weekly basis. I think many of these problems could be avoided if only the rules were set forth and applied in a manner which did not lend itself to individual interpretation and hence dispute.

Regards,

Arbiter

Posted by [mart] on Apr-15-2003 09:58:

Your sig might have been edited due to the fact that most likely whenever somebody noticed it a massive flaming battle would have occurred

Posted by jon on Apr-15-2003 10:25:

Re: Re: Censorship and Tranceaddict

quote:
Originally posted by Arbiter

1. The rules (not all, but most) are set forth in such a manner that no objective standard exists by which to evaluate them. As a result, it is merely the subjective opinion of a moderator which is used as the basis for instantaneous and unaccountable administrative action. While I think the moderators here typically do an excellent job, there have been many instances in which I and others feel they have overstepped a reasonable interpretation of the guidelines. Attempts to elicit a justification for their activities either by PM or on the boards are typically ignored, or responded to in terms so vague that one cannot objectively analyze them.

yeah i do see what you mean, but to create an objective standard, there will have to be a nubmer of various cases listed and different examples of what is and isnt accepetable, and before you know it the rules will begin to look like some act of paralement (or what ever the similar term is in various countries)

it is down to the people to make sure they try to obide by the rules, and not try to strech them in anyway as thats where the arguments begine

Posted by bassaholix on Apr-15-2003 12:35:

Posted by Arbiter on Apr-15-2003 13:31:

Re: Re: Re: Censorship and Tranceaddict

quote:
Originally posted by jonsimmonds
yeah i do see what you mean, but to create an objective standard, there will have to be a nubmer of various cases listed and different examples of what is and isnt accepetable, and before you know it the rules will begin to look like some act of paralement (or what ever the similar term is in various countries)

it is down to the people to make sure they try to obide by the rules, and not try to strech them in anyway as thats where the arguments begine

The problem is that vague rules encourage people to try to stretch them by inherently lending themselves to especially strict or especially lose interpretation. As a result, the vagueness of the rules creates these types of problems.

While I definitely don't think we need to go overboard and define the rules with complete perfection so that there is no room for interpretation at all, I don't think the rules in their present form suffice. IMO, the prevalance of these types of threads is a pretty clear indication that people don't understand the rules. I'll be the first to admit I don't understand them, and it's hard for me to understand how anyone really could.

Regards,

Arbiter

Posted by igottaknow on Apr-15-2003 14:20:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Censorship and Tranceaddict

quote:
Originally posted by Arbiter
The problem is that vague rules encourage people to try to stretch them by inherently lending themselves to especially strict or especially lose interpretation. As a result, the vagueness of the rules creates these types of problems.

While I definitely don't think we need to go overboard and define the rules with complete perfection so that there is no room for interpretation at all, I don't think the rules in their present form suffice. IMO, the prevalance of these types of threads is a pretty clear indication that people don't understand the rules. I'll be the first to admit I don't understand them, and it's hard for me to understand how anyone really could.

I agree should be a better way clarify rules, but from mods perspective:

1. They have neither time nor the inclination to deliberate over inforcement and explain to everyone each of their decisions.

2. The most basic rule here is don't cause trouble to the mods, other posters, or the forum. If u have a bad attitude or are intent on causing trouble you'll find ur self out on ur ass.

Posted by jon on Apr-15-2003 14:55:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Censorship and Tranceaddict

quote:
Originally posted by Arbiter
The problem is that vague rules encourage people to try to stretch them by inherently lending themselves to especially strict or especially lose interpretation. As a result, the vagueness of the rules creates these types of problems.

While I definitely don't think we need to go overboard and define the rules with complete perfection so that there is no room for interpretation at all, I don't think the rules in their present form suffice. IMO, the prevalance of these types of threads is a pretty clear indication that people don't understand the rules. I'll be the first to admit I don't understand them, and it's hard for me to understand how anyone really could.

Regards,

Arbiter

i dont really think theres a solution that will work, at the one end is vage rules what get streched, the other is well defined 100 pages of rules covering each case etc which no once can be bothered to read and thus they will all get broken