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Trance Plucks (typical PVD for an Angel)

Ok I know there are slight variations, but where or how the hell can I get those typical trance sounding plucks - e.g. PVD for an Angel. I'm about to have a nervous breakdown I've been trying for so long.

Any help?


Mike

Most of the times I give out tips freely, but this one I have to admit I am a little reluctant to divulge:

Since I worked the last several months trying to get that plucky, snappy sound that you're talking about, I won't give you the full secret but I will give you a hint. Take this hint, do some research, and if you still can't get it, I will tell you how to do it:

The hint:

Recursive modulation

quote:

Originally posted by Etherium Recursive modulation

Do you mean recursive in the mathematical sense?

That sounds like an interesting idea.

ive been able to achieve that pluck sorta sound with the buzz effect adaptor in fruity loops with the arguella thing

Screw it! I'll quit being stingy with my knowledge:

Here is what you do:

In your synths modulation matrix what you're going to do is modulate
the filter decay with the filter envelope itself.

So the source of the modulation won't be an LFO, it will be the filter envelope itself (note that not all synths offer this) and the modulation destination would be the filter decay.

The filter modulation needs to be at its maximum NEGATIVE number.

To compensate raise the decay to its max level.

What is this doing:

Instead of the decay being simply fast, it is actually concave.

That's the trick. Recursive modulation! It can make the decay concave or convex, in this case we want concave.

Notice now that if you have the env amount to its maximum and cutoff at midlevel, that synth should be snapping!

But we're not finished.

Run this through a phaser, using 70 percent wet signal, a fairly slow rate, high depth, fairly low frequency, no feedback, three stages, spread 127.

If your synth allows you to increase the intensity of the attack, sometimes called Punch Intensity, then raise this to its max.

Slappy, snappy, whippy, whatever, it sounds fookin' out of this world.

Granted, this could be confusing, I'll try to post sometime soon.

Good luck.

Notice I said cutoff at midlevel originally, I thought about it more and it is better if the cutoff is near 0, but not 0.

Lol, thanks for sharing

But... what's so recursive about that?

Recursive modulation. It's a technical term. I don't know about the mathmatical sense of the word. It's a sound designing term.

could someone post an example ( or name a tune with time details ) please ?


Trancevision

quote:

Originally posted by Etherium Recursive modulation. It's a technical term. I don't know about the mathmatical sense of the word. It's a sound designing term.

You sure? Where did you hear this term?

Sound design is very mathematical at the fundamental level, and I couldn't imagine any reason why someone would call something recursive unless it were, well, recursive

A good (easy!) example of recursion: say you want to repeatedly take the square root of an arbitrary number. How would you write that out in mathematical terms?

Note: The numbers in brackets should be subscripts.

The solution is recursion. Set x(1) to be the arbitrary number, lets say 2. Then define the next term, x(n+1) to equal the square root of x(n).

And that's it.

x(1) is 2.

x(2) is the square root of 2.

x(3) is the square root of the square root of two, or the aquare root of x(2).

This works great with things like the fibonacci sequence, and is really helpful with computer programming, because the same subroutine can be repeatedly called over and over again with minimal code.

Now... how does this relate to modulating a filter negatively?

any tips on how you would do this in Reason? I tried applying the above explanations, but I get lost...

quote:

Originally posted by sooper any tips on how you would do this in Reason? I tried applying the above explanations, but I get lost...

I'd hate to say it, but RTFM... Etherium explained the steps quite clearly, and it really shouldn't be complicated to follow the steps once they're laid out in front of you.

Russo, hey, I see how you're getting it confused. So, here is my explanation: There is a sound designer named Howard Scarr, this is the guy that I got that term from. But it is the appropriate descriptive phrase to describe the above discussed phenomenon.

Often times an abridged dictionary, as well as an unabridged at times, will not have all of the meanings of a word listed.

The latin root cursus, means to flow. So cursive writing flows. Discursive conversation doesn't flow well.

Some sound designer (or more likely some MIT geek) just took cursus and came up with the term recursive.

It's an esoteric term that isn't listed in a dictionary, just like most obscure medical terms.

It's very obscure, however, I found it in an article entitled
"Analysis and Design of Interleaver Mappings for Iteratively Decoded
BICM"

Say that three times fast.

How recursive relates to envelopes and shiite I have no idea.

Interesting... where do you find these articles?

Article! Hehe. I just went to Google. This article came up, I found the word buried somewhere in it, but in this particular context there was no mention of sound design. Maybe I'll email Howard Scarr and ask him how he discovered the term. If you want to see how he uses the term, download the Access Virus tutorial at their website
, it's in there.www.access-music.de

By the way, did you try this whole pluck synth trick out. Did anybody? I think it is a pretty helpfull trick. I think it can also make e.g. basses more rounded if positive modulation is used (convexity). Just a guess.

I think I'll post this trick in the sound design thread.

By the way Russo, you're from Toronto, are they worried about SARS up there?

hey etherium...great tip...

just for the record, what type of modular snyth are you using with that technique..and does anyone have some modular snyth suggestions for us that would like to try it out....

Etherium: I never thought of using an envelope to modulate the actual decay of the filter. That is really a cool idea though... I haven't had time to try it out yet, but I will. And it should do wonders for basses

I actually have a Virus pdf file (are you referring to the manual?)... I just haven't gotten around to reading it yet.

And SARS? I think the only people that are really worried are the people that actually take the media seriously. It is a big deal in the sense that it is life-threatening, but the chances of getting it seem really low. For example: I'm downtown (on the subway) everyday, and I've only seen one person wearing a mask since the beginning of this mess.

Hey, it's not the actual manual for the Virus, it's a pdf called "Programming Anaglogue Synths". Go to the Virus page and click on the Products tab. The next page that comes up, in the center of that page on the left hand side you will see "Programming Analogue Synths". Download that. Check out page 26.

By the way, this programming guide is a great resource for all people, not just Virus users. It's one of the most comprehensive tutorials out there. It also contains a history of synthesizers that is quite interesting.

Floorfiller, I use the Access Virus B to do this pluck synth. When I use the recursive modulation it makes quite a difference in the "pluckiness". Others might not be impressed, but it did me.

I left out some details and subtle changes in the phaser, the cutoff level, the amp release, sustain and other variables can make quite a difference. But it's the best I can articulate it.

The most important parts are that you need to do the recursive modulation part with a large value for the negative modulation, the decay needs to be at its maximum to compensate, keep the cutoff very low, the envelope wide open, and add a quality phaser. I'll try to post something soon.

Ok, back to the original question..

I tried to make that trance pluck sound with the tips Etherium gave, but I failed miserably. Does anyone know which softsynth can be used for this? And can someone post an example of this particulair sound we are after? I have done all the things Etherium said with one of my softsynths, but in the end it didn't sound like what we are after...

quote:

Originally posted by Etherium you will see "Programming Analogue Synths". Download that. Check out page 26. By the way, this programming guide is a great resource for all people, not just Virus users. It's one of the most comprehensive tutorials out there. It also contains a history of synthesizers that is quite interesting.

Fuck MAN! thats MINT!

Dimwit:

Here is some extra info that might help, and I can easily see how it would be difficult to duplicate:

First of all, you want to start off with a supersaw-type that has a short sustain, decay, and release.

Make sure the cutoff is low and the envelope is fully open.

Other than this it is hard to pinpoint what you might not be doing right, it isn't your fault, sometimes it's just hard to get the paramaters exact.

Oh, and by the way, I tried this pluck sound out with some FM and sync and some funky shaped oscillators and it sounds like someone is literally plucking a guitar. Not what I was originally after, but it was fun.

quote:

Originally posted by Etherium Oh, and by the way, I tried this pluck sound out with some FM

I think that the FM7 VSTi has curved envelopes to easily achive this kind of stuff, you just have to get the FM bit right then

quote:

Originally posted by Etherium Recursive modulation. It's a technical term. I don't know about the mathmatical sense of the word. It's a sound designing term.

Recrusive Modulation is "when a modulation destination affects the source itself" (Howard Scarr)

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