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-- cueing points (vinyl djs)
cueing points (vinyl djs)
so my initial start points for the mix (initial crossfader use) are alright sometimes (what's the technical term?) but occasionally i deal with shaky hand, whatever.
what im thinking is to start the mix in my split monitor 2 or 4 bars before bringing it in, which will ensure perfect beatmatchedness. (hah)
this just means, the added pain of having to cue my 2nd record 2 or 4 bars before the intro i WANT accordingly, and knowing when my 1st record is 2 or 4 bars before when i want to begin mixing.
make sense?
what do you think of this technique, is it useless or not..
the main reason is because i have fucked up slightly vinyls which dont sit exactly flat, so when i nudge it really fucks up. velvet girl, and amphetamine
Patticus,
sounds cool, whatever it is. I had trouble understanding what you were talking about. I am one of those DJ's who's been spinning for like 5-6 years, can mix really good, but i never had an instructor, never read about spinning or anything, so i'm not familiar with terms or techniques. obviously i *use* techniques but really am not good at visualizations.
sounds pretty cool though. keep spinnin'
-ABT-
Since most songs start with a fairly standard 8 bars of bland drum beat, can't you cue it up to the start of this? It's unlikely you'll want this in the mix, and then you have a full 8 bars in your headphones to get the track in the right place before beginning the mix.
i made it sound too complicated.
all it is IS, cueing your record early (say, 2 or 4 FOUR-COUNTS or bars before your intro) and throwing it in early in the monitor (headphones), to give you that extra 2 or 4 bars of leeway to make sure its perfect
before bringing the crossfader in.
does that make more sense?
obviously this doesnt go for if you're cueing the 2nd record from the beginning of the track.
just to make one thing clear for everyone, a 4-count (1-2-3-4... 2-2-3-4) = a Bar or Measure.
hopefully that'll help some term-lacking djs out there 
hence, your intro and breakdowns are normally 8 bars or 16, etc.
djtj: that's kind of the case, but not if MY desired intro point is further into the track... after the bland beats and initial song intro
Ahhhh, i see now, Patticus.
Yeah, sounds like a good idea, but i guess you only need to worry about that if you spin epic or uplifting trance huh? Right now i'm pretty much sticking to Progressive (uh.... sorry, "Techno"), where it is pretty much the same beat with no entre, denoument, or whatever..... so i just kick it in once the beat is matchted baby!
keep spinnin'
-ABT-
no shit eh.. i like progressive too though... id spin it, but probably not seriously as... "epic" because my bank account cant handle the stress
whadaya mean progressive, uh, techno?
one or the other bud
What do i mean by Progressive (uh...Techno)?
Well, that was an inside joke that i thought you would get. you have obviously seen all the HUGE debates in the music forum over what it is actually called. I was just humoring this debate. I call it progressive (that is what every major DJ i've met called it, and that is what every CD compilation i've bought called it.)
But all the trance guru's on here call it "techno", and they call progressive: stuff like PvD and Sasha (which i consider trance really). i dunno, Patticus. I think there is no real classification standards. what do you think?
-Confused
off the topic: abt your gti looks maddddd tight
Why thank you sot!
The factory color is called "Futura Yellow",
but i call it "the grey-poupon mobile!"
cheers!
==der ABT==
abt... that's hilarious
yeah i should have picked up on that
they've been calling it tech-trance and stuff... but for sure its progressive. the link between 'real' progressive trance and prog house is very close.. its all good
patticus, what you are doing is absolutely right. it's better to doublecheck. moreover, for some tracks with very lengthy drum intros you want to start bringing the new tune in after maybe 2mins of it's playing (progressive house)... so you listen to the track all those two minutes in your headphones. makes a perfect mix, because you can adjust the pitch during that time just perfectly.
Something else you might think about too, is forget the crossfader. Set it in the middle and do your mixing with the individual volume controls. Usually, you'll get a much cleaner mix by bringing up the volume on the song you're going into and when you're about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way bringing the one up...start bringing the other one down....unless you're going to do a long override, in which case you would pretty much just leave the other one up (maybe pull it down a hair). I've seen very few crossfaders that do a clean mix....they tend to drop the volume too much before getting louder again going into the next song. I think you also have much more control the other way. Also, then if you find yourself working with a mixer that doesn't have a crossfader....it won't feel awkward to you.
first: i do any beatmatchin necessary
second: find my cue point; do any eq'ing to both channels
third: set the crossfader halfway faded into the new track; keep the new tracks' channel volume at -60db.
fourth: begin mix @ cue point, slowly turn up the channel fader till i get a mix i like....make sure the new track is at the same volume as the old track and not louder or softer...also, do any necessary eq'ing
fifth: make any necessary beatmatchin, slowly fade out old track playin till i get a mix everyone can agree on
sixth: repeat steps 1-5
a sure fire way to mix records seamlessly without drastic volume changes in the mix...
jocker, johnny, and lexicon: that's some awesome advice. id heard about that before (not using the x-fader) but it just slipped my mind...
i cant really play two minutes of the track, because no prog house here... so its not like just blending. hehe, i really would have to know my beats PERFECTLY to bring in uplifting/melodic 'normal' trance in at precisely the right bar, after playing it from the beginning.
but its good to know that im on the right track.
thanx again guys
then probably the following idea will seem very appealing to you:
when i get some new records, i carefully listen to them and write down the composition on the sheet of paper
(*i call 32 beats (or 4bars with 8 beats each) a logical quadrant, or just a quadrant):
drums: 2quadr.
+base: 2quadr.
voice: 4 beats (or also 1 quarter)
+main theme: 1 quad.
breakdown: 1quad.
+bass: 1quad.
+drums: 1quad.
apex: 2quad.
drums and bass interlude: 2 quad.
+main theme: 2 quad.
etc...
and you stick this sheet of paper on the sleeve of the record. then looking at the two sleeves during the mix, you can make the mix flow exactly as you want it to be (unless you mad a mistake while writing it down)... and don't forget to write, which track this composition is for
gl.
jocker, that's an awesome idea... although its 8 bars of 4 beats (hehe) trance is all 4-4 timing
which means basically 4 beats per bar... (as opposed to 2, or 3 which = waltz)
you just put it in the sleeve eh?
you do both a, b sides and stuff?
when i mix, i check the beat... stop the deck, and go to my cueing point and set the crossfader in the middle, and start the song and slam the crossfader to the the right (or left) and thats my mixing technique... i rarely misses the beat.....
| quote: |
| Originally posted by patticus you just put it in the sleeve eh? you do both a, b sides and stuff? |
n/m
thanks for the great advice jocker
Nothing wrong at all with cueing ahead of where you want to start your mix, I usually have both going as such before I start a mix.
I reserve dropping in a song in at a cue point like that when for I need to get a mix started ASAP, or for particularly tricky parts of some songs. I'll beat match the records from the beginning of the new record, then quickly find the cue point I want then hit it in.
Being able to drop a song in as you mix is a usefull skill to have. With enough practice it can be done consistantly with near-perfect phase. Being able to do so will also speed up your beat matching a bit as you can drop in a tune without the need to correct phase.
So I would say that if you are performing and are not confident with being able to drop stuff in, then feel free to cue ahead and ensure all of your mixes go smoothly. Back at home however, it doesn't hurt to practice dropping a song in just where you want to start a mix from time to time. Experiment a bit and get a feel for how you could use the different methods for effective mixes. In the end just stick with whatever you are most comfortable with, there is no right or wrong way.
As for writing down the composition of the song, I am somewhat opposed to this. Being aware of composition and having a good idea when/where it will change is important, but you have to remember that the compositions of songs are just loose guidelines for your mixing and they won't tell you everything about a song. Do not let it stop you from experimenting, or you may be suppressing some inspirational mixes.
fyx, do you mean just drop the song in as you're initially beat-matching it? if so... yeah i do that sometimes, its fun (and awesome if you get it right)
but the whole writing structure down is a great way to help learn your tracks, and really helps the technical side
of course, that doesnt mean you dont need excellent track selection, etc. still
but its useful. (i wont be writing stuff out, too lazy, but i'll memorize intro structure of what i need to know)
and to johnny eckhardt, i didnt reply sooner, but THANK YOU for suggesting that i didnt need the xfader. immediately i went from being discouraged/disappointed in my mixing consistency, to having THE utmost confidence.. creating smooth mixes 95% of the time
for some reason it helped me beat-matching as well!
i swear.. there'll be no stopping me now
thank you.. all
Actually I meant beat matching it a least a bit first, but the idea is you bring in the record with the cross fader about the same time as you spin it up by hand from a dead stop.
right.
huh?
i get the first thing you said (its wat i meant) but not the 2nd
you mean like if your pitch shift isnt enough, am i right, just perpetually spinning the record with your hand
(later letting it go when you've mixed)
I don't think I'm explaining this very well, you probably already do this on occasion but just don't know what I'm talking about.
As an alternative to cuing a beat matched record to a point say X bars before where you want to start mixing it in to ensure it's in phase, instead cuing it to exactly to where you want to start your mix and timing it's start just right.
I mean that you have one record playing, you've already beat matched the record on the second table and the platter is spinning. The needle is at the point you want to start a mix from, and you are holding the record from spinning with your hand. When the live song gets to where you want to start your mix you spin the record up/release it just as you start mixing it in or doing whatever kind of mix you had in mind for it. I don't have any sort of trick or effect in mind, if it goes well it sounds like any other normal mix. If it goes off or anything in a mix you correct as usual.
yeah cool, fyx, i get you now.... but uh.. hehe.. dont mean to sound like a smartass.... but what other kind of mix is there?
that's pretty much the only way i do. from a dead stop as you say
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