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Canada moves to decriminalize marijuana

http://www.cbc.ca/storyview/MSN/200...juana_law030527

An excerpt:

quote:

If his cannabis reform bill passes, adults caught with less than 15 grams of cannibis will be given a ticket and face a fine of as much as $400. Young people will be fines as much as $250. Fines will be higher for possession of hashish. But the same bill includes tougher penalties for illegally growing and trafficking pot. Sentences will double for those offences. Ottawa will also give millions to drug education and drug treatment programs.

i forsee several things resulting from this. first off, a lot of sabre rattling from the oppressive DEA from the US. happily it will be ignored by Canada.

I also forsee the price of marijuana in canada jumping. there is now more risk for the dealers, double the penalty, so to make it worth their while, they will probably increase the price, maybe even double it. conversely, with only a fine to fear from being caught with 15grams or less, casual users will be much less careful, which in turn could lead to dealers getting caught.

i also forsee decreased use of marijuana. price goes up, use goes down, it's that simple. also, with the "millions" in drug education (we will see, i doubt it with the way the Canadian govt has been handing out money lately) more people will realize that marijuana, while fun every once in a while, is a very addictive drug, that can ruin your life.


What do you think will be the results if this legislation is passed.

Re: Canada moves to decriminalize marijuana

quote:

Originally posted by JohnSmith What do you think will be the results if this legislation is passed.

My moving to Canada?

Or maybe you'll see more 15g traffickers on the rise

Anyway I think it's a good idea. I'm not sure what they're trying to achieve though ... if they want less people to use it why not simply keep it criminal and raise the penalty for trafficking or growing? Either criminalize it or legalize it if you ask me.

But what's so bad about the DEA? They don't make the laws they just enforce them. And the only people they oppress are drug users and traffickers so more power to them.

first off, i think that a 15g trafficker would face the same penalty as a 15lb trafficker. trafficking is trafficking.

second, don't even get me started on the DEA and the war on drugs, maybe i will take you up on a discussion later, but i'm at work and don't have the time right now to research and back it up. But, for now, my personal opinion is that they are oppressors.

marijuana use would not be stopped by illegality, you only need to check out any park in my town to know that.

Your post is misleading, nothing is being "decriminalized" because if they have to pay a fine then they're still being penalized for a certain crime.

I will post more later today

quote:

Originally posted by JohnSmith first off, i think that a 15g trafficker would face the same penalty as a 15lb trafficker. trafficking is trafficking. second, don't even get me started on the DEA and the war on drugs, maybe i will take you up on a discussion later, but i'm at work and don't have the time right now to research and back it up. But, for now, my personal opinion is that they are oppressors. marijuana use would not be stopped by illegality, you only need to check out any park in my town to know that.

Yes well couldn't a 15g trafficker simply say that it is for his own personal use? But anyway start up a new thread on the DEA whenever you get the chance to ... I'm curious to see what beef you have with them.

My point wasn't that making it illegal would stop its use. I actually think it should be legalized. I'm just confused by what the intent is. If they're thinking that the penalty for marijuana use is unnecessarily high then I understand. However, if they wish less people to use it, why lessen the penalty to a fine?

JohnSmith's problem is that he still can't make up his mind on the fundamental question of whether marijuana use is a crime, or not a crime. I don't blame him, it's a difficult question that many people are grappling with.

huh? i can decide. it is a crime. currently under canadian and american law that is.

morally, i believe there is nothing wrong with it. I used to smoke it, and now i don't, but i think other people should be able to.

quote:

Your post is misleading, nothing is being "decriminalized" because if they have to pay a fine then they're still being penalized for a certain crime.

i don't think you understand the difference between decriminalzation and legalization. they are moving to decriminlaze which would mean it's still against the law, but you would only get a fine for it, like a speeding ticket. it would not go on your record, and you would not go to jail for it.

I support decriminalzation, and legalization (although i doubt the latter is likely to happen)

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Yes well couldn't a 15g trafficker simply say that it is for his own personal use?

not if he was caught selling it!

quote:

Originally posted by JohnSmith huh? i can decide. it is a crime. currently under canadian and american law that is.

I don't care what it is under current law.
My question was whether you think that it should a crime or not.
So what's your answer?

quote:

I support decriminalzation, and legalization

So if you support legalization, then you'd be selling it to anyone over 18 who wants it, just like alcohol and tobacco; in other words nobody would control how much you can consume (just like nobody tells me how many cigarettes I can smoke, or how much I can drink).

Fine. Then explain this to me: Why is it that even the most liberal of countries - Holland - restricts you to only a certain amount of marijuana (say 5 mg) that you can consume without penalizing you?

Let's see:
----------
Nobody regulates how often I smoke in a bar. --> NOT A CRIME
Nobody regulates how much I drink in a bar. --> NOT A CRIME
Somebody regulates that I can't go beyond a certain amount with marijuana in a Dutch coffee shop. --> CRIME

quote:

Originally posted by JohnSmith not if he was caught selling it!

True enough ... eh somebody else's use of marijuana is not going to affect me in any way so maybe it's a good law. Legalize it, let tobacco companies produce it, let the smokers smoke it, 20 years into the future let the chronic smokers who have lung cancer sue the tobacco companies for letting them smoke it . Ah yes ... the cycle of our litigious society.

On a more serious note however, I read some article on how an insane amount of money is spent on health care to hospitalize victims of smoke related diseases. In that case we ARE affected by another person's choice in choosing to smoke (beyond secondhand smoke). So should smokers be forced to pay more for health care? Or should there be an increased 'health' tax on cigarrettes?

quote:

Originally posted by Eugene I don't care what it is under current law. My question was whether you think that it should a crime or not. So what's your answer?

that was not your question. you insuated that i couldn't make up my mind "whether marijuana use is a crime, or not a crime."

it is.

but now, to be clear, i will answer your second question (which i already did) do i think it should be?

no.

quote:

Originally posted by Eugene So if you support legalization, then you'd be selling it to anyone over 18 who wants it, just like alcohol and tobacco; in other words nobody would control how much you can consume (just like nobody tells me how many cigarettes I can smoke, or how much I can drink).

correct.

quote:

Originally posted by Eugene Fine. Then explain this to me: Why is it that even the most liberal of countries - Holland - restricts you to only a certain amount of marijuana (say 5 mg) that you can consume without penalizing you? Let's see: ---------- Nobody regulates how often I smoke in a bar. --> NOT A CRIME Nobody regulates how much I drink in a bar. --> NOT A CRIME Somebody regulates that I can't go beyond a certain amount with marijuana in a Dutch coffee shop. --> CRIME

why does holland do this? i don't know, i don't live there.
But, we aren't talking about holland here anyway, and I'm not familiar with the laws there(maybe you can enlighten me). but i know that 5mg is not very much pot in any case.

Also, you are regulated to how much you can drink in a bar, the bartender is supposed to cut you off. Granted, it's not a specific thing, like 10 beers and your out, nor should it be.

Basically what it comes down to, is marijuana is currently illegal, and a criminal act. in canada, it will soon merely be illegal.

My thoughts on it's use are irrelevant.

OK, I see what you mean.

Yeah, I agree that the current policies are too repressive.

From what I've seen in other countries decriminalization wouldn't have a lot of influence [no pun intended] on the use of either soft drugs or harder drugs. When I was in Holland I saw a lot of very unsavory types on the street doing illegal hard drugs (so the "anti-stepping-stone theory" was not confirmed to me), and their crime and health problems aren't significantly less than ours.

I don't think the situation would be significantly changed.

guys you forgetting that the gov want to make money
so they start running around charing people tickets here and there instead of placing them in jail , thats smart
they dont want to legalize it or whatever, you'll still be fined for carrying it so... get ready to pay serious cash when you carry some around:P

quote:

Originally posted by occrider So should smokers be forced to pay more for health care? Or should there be an increased 'health' tax on cigarrettes?

As a smoker, I must say I'm sick of this "but we pay for your healthcare when you get sick" argument.

In Australia, the price of a deck of cigarettes is about $10. At least half of that is tax (more like 60-70%, but we'll say 50% to keep the estimates conservative).

So, a pack a day smoker for, say 35 years pays $5 tax on every pack of cigs he buys. 5 * 365 = 1825. 1825 * 35 = 63875. That's $63875 he's voluntarily giving to the government - wouldn't that just about cover health care when he contracts lung cancer?

Besides, if you start taxing smokers for clogging up the health system, perhaps you could also start taxing other people who enter the health system only because of the ill-fated undertaking of a voluntary activity? All sportsmen perhaps? Afterall, they didn't have to play sport so it's their fault they have a broken leg, why should I pay for it? Or perhaps we should tax over-eaters? After all, they clog up the health-system as bad KFC clogs their arteries, right?

The reason its been decriminalized there, and in some states here its only a misdemeneor is because as much as most public officials frown upon the use of marijuana it creates a huge burden on the already overburdened court system. I don't think it has anything to do with them changing their opinion on it, or trying to reduce the use of it or anything else.

Go Canada

quote:

Originally posted by Nadi creates a huge burden on the already overburdened court system

for sure, and as one TA said early...it's money, fines will help bolster coffers!

they should just make it legal, its illogical to "decriminalize it" while "decriminalizing" it encourages its use pretty much, raising the penalties for trafficking larger amounts doesn't makse sense. Why encourage use and discourage growing? The 2 go together like white on rice. Just make like Tiesto's home country and legalize. I don't care if its bad. So is alcohol, and you already have to be stupid to get addicted to marijuana and become a pothead. What happened when the prohibition stopped? The infamous Al Capone and all the other gang operations ceased. It causes more crime than prevents. Marijuana in my opinion, is not harmful enough to be completely illegal. It's not like crack or coke or all the other club drug favorites (E, crystal meth, Special K etc.). Whereas these drugs cause a lot more harm.

marijuana is not "Legalized" in Holland
Canada is basicaly doing the same thing what Holland have done long time ago, decriminalizing it. It will never be legalized, but it doesn't make you a criminal to carry it around for personal use only (less than 15grams), but you will be penzalized for carrying it.
As I mentioned before, its another way for government to save on Legal Services and make more money

however in Holland they don't fine you do they? And if you are growing it they don't put u in jail do they? I'm not too familiar with how Holland does it, but I do know for a fact that many people go on vacation there to smoke their marijuana and have no worries about getting caught.

i'll get back to you about this but i am pretty sure there is fines to pay for possession and you might need permission to grow your own...

YAY FOR POT!

now i can finally make those baskets i wanted to make... legally! in canada of course...

As the rules on Marijuana are being discussed overhere, but not right, and I'm from Holland i'll explain them:

Officialy nothing is Legal! So if the police really wants to nail your ass, they can, but it almost never happens...

You're allowed to smoke your weed if you're 18 years old.
You're allowed to buy your weed at a Coffeeshop when you're 18 years old, but no more than 5 grams a day.. This should be enough as he quality of the weed is much better than in most other countrys.
The "coffeeshops" are allowed to sell the weed BUT: they are not allowed to buy it....
Everybody is allowed to have 5 plants to grow your own weed, if you have a couple of hundred or more they will give you a "workingpenalty " and sometimes a Fine.
If you just smoke your Joint you'll never get problems with the Police... you can just walk to them with a joint in your mouth and start talking to them....

I Hope this will make it more clear.

I need to visit Amsterdam! On a serious note, decriminalization of marijuana posession in the U.S. would probably free up a decent amount of prison space which could be used to house some real criminals for a change.

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