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Posted by Orko on Jun-02-2003 03:46:

BPM counting...?

Well some background on why i am asking:

I use virtual turn tables on my computer, to mix, cause i cannot yet afford actual equipment.
the program lets you count bpm, by you clicking a button, it counts the number of times you click for the beat, and divides that by the time you did it for, giving you the bpm. i usually do it for 30 sec or so. When i match the songs up, bpms that is, they always seem to fall out of sync.

I was wondering, is there a certain way of counting bpm to get the accurtate count? do it over the entire song?at the biginning, end? any usefull programs out there that do it for us?

help from experienced djs would be much appreciated.

Posted by Devbert on Jun-02-2003 04:19:

Simply taping a button as accurate as you can still isn't that acurate. Even my BPM counter on my DJM-600 isn't acurate enough to count beats. I don't use virtual turntables so maybe someone else can help you out.

Posted by Blithe on Jun-02-2003 11:59:

The problem lies in human error. When you are tapping a button, each time you tap it, you aren't always going to tap it at the same interval that you tapped it the previous time. Each time you tap it, you're either shifting you're BPM up or down... It can be very hard to lock onto the precise beat that you really need with VTT.

Since pitch adjustmants usually have to be bumped fractions of a percent up or down to match, The tap method can really only be used for a general ballpark BPM match. In order to use VTT effectively you'd either:
A.) Have to know the exact % difference between 2 songs by trial and error
B.) Use the 2 sound card method and try to match your incoming record the way you would CD tables. The tap method is very inaccurate.

I believe other programs like acid and such will match BPM for you, but then again, this isn't really dj'ing now is it?

Posted by Psylence on Jun-02-2003 15:31:

The only thing BPM counters are good for is getting you in the general range of BPM's.. You want it to sound good, yer still gonna need to work on your ears

Posted by Orko on Jun-02-2003 16:28:

yeah i thought that hard work was gonna be the only real solution. I was hoping to be able to count bpms to be able to train my ears, to was a 130bpm track sounds like in comparision to a 140.

but i will just work at it

thanks again.

but any tips on when i should count bpm in a song?
it does change over the course of a song, like gets faster. any ideas?

Posted by Tony Morello on Jun-02-2003 18:09:

bpm counters and beat indicators lick ass

they do more harm than good
learn to beatmatch without them

Posted by Tiger777 on Jun-02-2003 19:54:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ_Shockwav
bpm counters and beat indicators lick ass

they do more harm than good
learn to beatmatch without them

I absolutely agree with you. But, it can be a great help sometimes, allthough in most cases, BMP counters really suck...

Posted by Blithe on Jun-03-2003 01:14:

quote:
Originally posted by Orko

but any tips on when i should count bpm in a song?
it does change over the course of a song, like gets faster. any ideas?

Song's 99.9% of the time hold to the same tempo through the entire song. Sometimes when I cue up my tracks it will sound flawless, but when I drop it in it can get a little crazy. This can be due to:

A.) Not giving the tune enough time to see if it matched up 100%
B.) Can't hear the record well
C.) My tables suck and can't hold pitch

Heh, like has been said... it's all in the ears. Don't count BPM's... Just get the feel for it all, after mixing a ton of different tunes, you'll know what sounds good at what pitch and such.

Above all: Don't think of BPM as a number, think of it as a feeling (At least when mixing)

Posted by DjTasper on Jun-03-2003 05:34:

i have a bpm counter on my cddj and on all 3 of my tables........don't ever go by them though they give you a general idea but since they go off of A.I. they aren't very close to what the bpm actually is. virtual tables.....never tried them besides the dm^2 but that beatmatched for you

what program are you using for mixing?

Posted by Mikrop on Jun-03-2003 12:31:

the bpm counting in virtual turntables doesn't actually average it out over the period u tap the beat for... it just averages 2 successive taps... that's why it's so inaccurate...
the bpm capabilites in bpm studio and mixmeister are a whole lot better... but still not exact... they count the peaks in the track and average it over the time of the track... there's always a slight variation that needs to be made... but once u hit the spot... that's it! i've had tracks matched up for like 3 minutes using mixmeister...

Posted by djshawnb on Jun-03-2003 12:35:

i have numarks

i have numark axis 8 cd players with a bpm tap button. they work most of the time and i always use them to create a perfect loop and effects, i also use them to beatmatch sometimes. their awesome. btw im planning on selling them, so if anyone is interested please email me at [email protected].

Posted by Blithe on Jun-03-2003 19:46:

Re: i have numarks

quote:
Originally posted by djshawnb
i have numark axis 8 cd players with a bpm tap button. they work most of the time and i always use them to create a perfect loop and effects, i also use them to beatmatch sometimes. their awesome. btw im planning on selling them, so if anyone is interested please email me at [email protected].

Haha, you put they're awesome, and I'm selling them the sentence afterward... they're that awesome eh?

Posted by djshawnb on Jun-04-2003 14:41:

Re: Re: i have numarks

quote:
Originally posted by Blithe
Haha, you put they're awesome, and I'm selling them the sentence afterward... they're that awesome eh?

yeh man their awesome, truzz me. the only reason im selling them is bcuz i want to but the denon 5000's ( i think thats wat their called, lol) it wouldve been hard to learn beatmathing without the numark's, well for me that is. but anywayz, if anyone wants them let me know a.s.a.p.

Posted by Turbotrance on Jun-04-2003 15:26:

Use AutoBPM to work it out for u its only a 73k downlaod and it free

Get it at http://www.pyramidedata.dk/autobpm.html

Cheers

Turbotrance

Posted by goodnet on Jun-05-2003 04:58:

I agree 110% with everybody else here that a BPM counter is a (rather lame) crutch for a DJ to rely on...

But if you're just getting started, a program called "BPM Resolver" is worlds better for BPM detection than the "beat tapping" function of VTT. It has a good beat detection algorithm, and can also write the BPM value directly to a .vtc file which VTT can read from.

Here's a link i found off google:
http://www.dj-pir.com/soft/JunoSonic.zip

When you use this program.. you will eventually get bored of using it and eventually resort to manually pitching tracks yourself. I know i did after maybe a month.

Posted by aboytes on Sep-09-2003 22:32:

BMP Counter is just a help

BMP counters are a helpful tool when you start mixing , but the don't do all the job I use VTT on my computer and I calculate the BMP's as exactly as I can, but one you are mixing alive you must feel wich track is more slow and correct it with your ears and the pitching.