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-- Help me decide TTX1 or Technics 1200??
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Help me decide TTX1 or Technics 1200??
OK, I know there are a few threads out there, but I really would like to hear from the fellow TAs what they would recommend. I am getting rid of my Numark Axis 8 tables and I am going to vinyl. I want to feel the vinyl under my fingers and be able to get the songs that I can't find on CDs, so that is why I am making the switch.
I was wondering a few things. I know that you can throw out of the stats you want, but which table feels better? Are the added features on the TTX1 usable and important?
Most important, does the Numark TTX1 lock in pitch as well as the Technics? I read in a previous post on the board that because Numark's are digital, their pitch does not hold as well as an analog table and has to be fiddled with a lot more than a Technics. Is this true, or is this guy full of it?
I am looking for a reliable table that will "lock" in a pitch and make beatmatching easy. Any suggestions and opinions would be appreciated.
And no, I do not care that the Technics has been the "industry standard for years and years". I am willing to try something new and move on technology-wise if I can see the distinct advantages over the old standard.
Thanks for any help in advance!
Technics all the way
you will be satisfied
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Tranquil010 Technics all the way you will be satisfied |
Buy Tech's unless you have used the Numark's, Tech's dont need to proove themselves. Numark TTX-1 has awesome power, but do you need it? No. What you should be more worried about is consistency, and Tech's are as good as it gets. Dont quote me on this, but I believe the WOW & flutter on the Tech's is 0.015% and on the Numarks its 0.15%, the lower the number, the better the quality.. Tech's win. 
Numarks, or else ill come round to your house to smash your windows for wasting money on some shite designed in 1972.
the wow and flutter on the techs versus that on the ttx1's have been proven over and over again to really make no difference.
2 of the same records playing side by side will match the same tempo and be exactly continuous.
I don't believe the ttx1's do have a digital pitch (they may), but its probably just the readout. However, I've heard that when attemps to get the perfect pitch are going... and you think you got it... you switch to the other TT and then afterwards find out that that little increment you changed to try to get the beatmatching perfect has changed a tenth of a percent. I think that many ttx owners are suffering in silence about this particular issue, the fact is that most likely every so often during your set with a ttx you have to tweak over and over again. If this flaw was sorted out (maybe it will be someday) then there's really nothing else wrong with them. The arm and platter problems are really just rumours. So basically, I'd choose the techs because they're just solid. Maybe you don't get some of the neat features (that interchangeable tonearm looks niice). However techs are still widely used and even if you want to scratch the tonearm is still solid anti-skip, and still popular with turntablists. Not to mention... its just a solid flow... no worries with the techs. The ttx1's features look cool, but I just get the feeling that the ttx1's are somewhat more hassling with beatmatching. I know Flesch has ttx1's and says they're good and i don't doubt its a great TT, but techs are almost part of the culture... You see a turntable anywhere, and its most likely a Technics. This way, you'll be practising with what the clubs will almost be sure to use. I look back at what I previously said... and then I'm thinking Techs will never die until vinyl dies, sure other tables will get more popular, but techs will still maintain a stranglehold until the digital revolution comes in.
Sure it'd be nice to have a digital out, but lets face it... you're playing with vinyl its old as it is. Go with your gut and get the techs. The problem is the techs have yet to really innovate... they could keep the same design and stuff but added functionality on an already solid table would only improve upon the original.
Go with 1200s.
I tried the TTX1s for a month and could never get perfect beatmatching for more than 1 phrase. I returned them and got 1200s, best decision I ever made.
It is true that the technics are goold old fashion quality... But, the TTX'es do have some advantages on the technics.
| quote: |
| I tried the TTX1s for a month and could never get perfect beatmatching for more than 1 phrase. |
just kidding
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Tiger777 It is true that the technics are goold old fashion quality... But, the TTX'es do have some advantages on the technics. Is that the fault of the TT just kiddingBut, indeed, if i was you, I'd go for the technics too. Because of: 1) they're cheaper 2) They're the standard, in almost every club, there are technics 3) Excellent quality |
Yeah the TTX's are on avg only $399.00 in the U.S. My friend has had TTx's for about a year now and I have never heard him complain about them. I've used them several times and was always able to beat match just as well as on my tech's. What I'm saying is even though they're not "industry standard" doesn't mean they're not just as good or even better....
You could make the same arguement w/ computers... Just because Windows is the industry standard does that make it a better operating system???
I would say try them out and if you like them go for it... But either way, I think you'll be satisfied with your purchase....
| quote: |
| Originally posted by pumavisor808 Yeah the TTX's are on avg only $399.00 in the U.S. My friend has had TTx's for about a year now and I have never heard him complain about them. I've used them several times and was always able to beat match just as well as on my tech's. What I'm saying is even though they're not "industry standard" doesn't mean they're not just as good or even better.... You could make the same arguement w/ computers... Just because Windows is the industry standard does that make it a better operating system??? I would say try them out and if you like them go for it... But either way, I think you'll be satisfied with your purchase.... |
ok man.... here is how it is... and this is the truth..
i own a pair of numark TTX1's and i am very satisfied,
and that thing about the ttx's not locking pitch..?? thats not true.
numark ttx's and techs 1200 are both at the top of the list, they are both excellent, precision instuments.. the ttx's have more features than the 1200's, which makes it a little better.. but no big deal..
but what im tryin to say is that..no one here can tell you what to buy man.. everyone has their own feel for their own thing.. my thing are the ttx1's and other ppl's thing are the 1200's.
go to the store, play with both of them, and see what you like..
its not about what turntable ppl mix on...its about the skill and creativity the person has.
and...if you learn how to mix on both of them, thats even better. not only will you know how to mix on the number one table, you'll know how to mix on both of them.
hope this helped out
-alan
| quote: |
| Originally posted by prestige ok man.... here is how it is... and this is the truth.. i own a pair of numark TTX1's and i am very satisfied, and that thing about the ttx's not locking pitch..?? thats not true. numark ttx's and techs 1200 are both at the top of the list, they are both excellent, precision instuments.. the ttx's have more features than the 1200's, which makes it a little better.. but no big deal.. but what im tryin to say is that..no one here can tell you what to buy man.. everyone has their own feel for their own thing.. my thing are the ttx1's and other ppl's thing are the 1200's. go to the store, play with both of them, and see what you like.. its not about what turntable ppl mix on...its about the skill and creativity the person has. and...if you learn how to mix on both of them, thats even better. not only will you know how to mix on the number one table, you'll know how to mix on both of them. hope this helped out -alan |
Just get the new Technics MK5G 
whoever said ttx1s are cheaper by $150.00 is shopping in a WRONG STORE/PLACE.
Numark ttx1-- $399.99
TECHNICS SL1200MKII -- $399.99
TECHNICS SL1200M3D -- $399.99
Technics SL1210MKII -- $399.99
Technics SL1200MK5S -- $549.99
Technics SL1200MK5G -- $749.95
technics MkIIs and M3Ds are pretty much priced at 399.99 almost everywhere.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DJ Tranz Just get the new Technics MK5G whoever said ttx1s are cheaper by $150.00 is shopping in a WRONG STORE/PLACE. Numark ttx1-- $399.99 TECHNICS SL1200MKII -- $399.99 TECHNICS SL1200M3D -- $399.99 Technics SL1210MKII -- $399.99 Technics SL1200MK5S -- $549.99 Technics SL1200MK5G -- $749.95 technics MkIIs and M3Ds are pretty much priced at 399.99 almost everywhere. |
I would have to agree with Vlad on this. I went to guitar center when i was shopping for some nice tables (started off on some Gemini XL500-II's, not bad, but i deff needed something better). So I put the TTX-1's head to head against the 1200's (The guys at guitar center were very cool with me, let me bring in my own headphones, vinyl and carts). To me the TTX-1 destroyd the 1200's in every thing i did, scraching, mixing, beatmatching, holding a beatmatch, everything. The tourqe on them is amazing too. I aslo have a pair of 1200's too, and I find myself using the TTX-1's alot more, and even got some of my 1200 friends to switch over. But honestly, it comes down to YOU at the end, and i would suggest putting the TTX-1's to the test against 1200's to see what would make you happier. It is an investment you know, a very expensive one. The guy at guitar center gave me the TTX-1's for 700 bucks, not too shabby, not you can find them on ebay for $649 for the pair, not too bad either. Just keep in mind, about 80% of everything on that ttx-1 is replaceable very easily(pitch fader, tone arm, strobe light, platter, button control surface, etc, etc.) so keep that in mind too, i just had to replace the pitch faders on my 1200's and they are only 6 years old, and were used by hip hop DJ who never used the pitch faders. Anyways I hope some of this helps you out with your decision.
peace
2 slow
Actually, it's a decision between features(the TTX1) or the standards(technics TT's)
you can find TTX1 for $312 US on yahoo.com shopping area. i wouldnt buy it from there, but i would just take that price and go to pssl.com and ask them to beat the price(they will by 10%).
i have never used ttx1 before and dont plan on useing them in the future, but i thought id add my two cents 
Here is a professional dj's review of the TTX1, and to note, he had been a decade long user of the 1200, so this is a very good review:
With the current turntable market now fluctuating, much like the over populated skratch dj mixer market, we have a series of turntables to hit the market. The latest is the numark ttx1, which beats any table out on paper. But does it stand up ?
Mike Runge drops the review for sqratchattack, after being one of the first in the nation to use and own one.
Until now, Numark has been recognized by DJs primarily for their line of mixers. I think the new centerpoint of their product line is now a turntable because you're gonna love the new TTX1 turntable from Numark.. No joke -- after nearly two decades of using Technics 1200s exclusively, I'm thinking about selling the old workhorses and getting another TTX1 (I only bought a single TTX1 deck so far).
Gearhead that I am, I have investigated and and tested out nearly every new turntable that has come on the market. The greater effect of all this effort has made me very skeptical, so I went into this wondering if I'd end up returning the unit to the store after playing with it for a few days. As for previous contenders, I thought the Vestax turntables were good, but the story wasn't completely compelling and I ended up sticking with my 1200s. The Stanton STR8-100 looked good and had nice features, but the construction wasn't up to 'snuff and the platter did weird things when trying to slow it down or speed it up (by dragging a finger on the platter's edge or twisting the spindle). On the other hand, in the TTX1 we have a very solidly constructed direct drive turntable, loaded with great features.
Before I start, in case you want to see the specifications for yourself, go to http://www.ttx1.com/pdf/TTX1SPEC_LTR.PDF
THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE UNIT:
This ain't no Calista Flockhart, it's more of a Nell Carter. Weighing in at 28.6 lbs, it's even heavier than the 1200 (27.6 lbs), the PDX2000 (21 lbs), or the STR8-100 (21 lbs). Numark calls it a "Solid-Core Steel Top and Rubber Base Construction", but I have no idea what "Solid Core" means. Maybe it was designed by Ashford & Simpson. All I can tell you is that it feels every bit as rugged as a 1200, probably even more so.
Aesthetics
It looks cool, man. Just check it out at the gallery.
THE PERFORMANCE OF THE UNIT:
The platter starts up quick. According to Numark, it has 3.7 kg/cm starting torque and 2.8 kg/cm constant torque. So it starts up in 1/7 of a rotation. Comparatively, the 1200 has 1.5 kg/cm of torque, and the PDX-2000 has 2.0 kg/cm of torque. Honestly, I can't tell if the TTX1 has more torque than either the 1200 or the PDX-2000, because they all feel about the same to me.
Accuracy
I found the TTX1 to be very accurate. This is despite the significant difference in wow and flutter between the TTX1 and the 1200 (I could not find any comparable info on this for the PDX-2000). According to the technical specifications I found, the TTX1 has <.15% WRMS and the Technics has .025% WRMS. But even though the 1200 looks better on paper, I couldn't find any perceptible difference in use. In fact, I put a copy of Planet Rock on my TTX1 and another identical copy on one of my 1200s. After getting them in phase with each other, they rode together in phase for all 6:25 of the song and another 1:15 of the bonus beats.
Features
There are many features on the TTX1 that make it so attractive. Let's start by looking at the bottom of the deck. It's solid rubber with molded hand-holds to make it easy to carry. The cables are not hardwired to the unit; instead you'll find connectors so that you can replace them easily if they get damaged. There are connectors for AC power (100/120/220/240V), S/PDIF (digital out), and RCA connectors. The RCA connectors can be hooked up to a mixer as either phono or line level, with a toggle switch near the RCA outputs on the bottom of the TTX1 for setting phono or line. For those of you that don't already know, S/PDIF stands for Sony/Philips Digital Interface and this connector allows for the direct transfer of audio in digital format.
Perhaps the most unique feature of the TTX1 is the interchangeable tonearm with both an S-shaped arm and a straight-arm included. There is a patent pending for this feature, so it may never be available from other manufacturers. The interchangeable tonearm is a great feature and I think it will help to make the unit popular with both club DJs and turntablists alike. Because of its straight-arm, I think that the PDX-2000 got labeled as a deck primarily for turntablists, and that affected the degree to which they gained broader acceptance.
On the other hand, with the swappable tonearm, this deck will be equally well received by all DJs. In using the TTX1, I was able to swap out the tonearm and recalibrate it very easily (it takes just a few seconds).
The tonearm has adjustments for setting the tracking force, tonearm height, and antiskate. There is also an extra counterweight to be used with the S-shaped tonearm. While you're not using the extra counterweight, there is a small hole located just behind the tonearm for storing it. (I wish Numark had also provided a similar storage place for the 45 adapter. It won't be long before mine is lost. Not that I ever use a 45 adapter...)
The TTX1 has a multi-directional design that makes it easy to use in the tradional and battle positions. The pitch fader and button controls are interchangeable so that they can be set in the best position for the user regardless of their preference for traditional vs battle setup. When I set up my deck, I swapped the pitch fader and the control buttons so that they would be optimized for the battle style setup. Numark included a tool for making the change and it was quick and easy to do. Notice how the pitch fader is aligned across the bottom of the deck in the photo below and the button controls are on the right side, battle style.
If you prefer things 1200 style, you can switch them around. The blue readout presents the pitch (shown as +8.0% here) and other text so that it appears upright to the user. Once you swap the pitch fader and button controls for traditional style setup, the text in the blue readout turns 90 degrees counterclockwise so it appears upright in that configuration.
Two of the button controls allow the user to set the speed to 33, 45 or 78 RPM (the top two buttons shown above). One can activate 78 RPM by pressing the 33 and 45 buttons simultaneously. The third button is for setting the key lock. I'll talk more about key lock below, but it allows the user to lock in the key of the song so that the key remains constant even if the BPM is altered by using the pitch fader. The fourth button is for Quartz lock and it's like the pitch reset button on the 1200 M3D. When the Quartz lock button is pressed, it resets the pitch to zero, regardless of how the pitch fader is set.
The pitch fader is smooth and does not have a depression at the zero position like the SL-1200MKII. I really liked the fact that I could customize the position of the pitch fader for battle setup, making it easier for me to access it.
The circular blue readout doesn't just look cool, it displays a lot of information:
pitch setting
33, 45, or 78 RPM
range of the pitch fader (8, 10, 20 or 50%)
BPM of the song that is playing
There are two buttons located at the edge of the blue readout. The top (or left) one is for BPM and pressing the button once tells the blue readout to display the BPM of the song. Pressing it a second time reverts the readout to display the current position of the pitch fader. Pressing the BPM button and holding it for two seconds recalculates the BPM of the song. As the pitch fader is moved, the BPM readout changes accordingly as the tempo of the song changes. The BPM counter works automatically and does not require the user to tap any buttons for calucation of the tempo. I used it with serveral songs of varying tempos and genres, and it was accurate in every case. When I bought the TTX1, I was not aware of the BPM feature. It is the most accurate and easy to use BPM counter I've ever seen and I think it's going to be very useful for lots of users. The picture below shows the BPM function displayed (125 BPM).
The other button at the bottom (or right) side of the blue readout is for setting the range of the pitch fader. It can be set to 10, 20, or 50% by cycling through the options in that order. Pressing and holding the button for two seconds sets the pitch fader range to 8% for users that want to emulate the range of the 1200.
Just below the pitch fader shown above is the stylus light. It is removable, and therefore easily replaceable if it breaks. No visit to the repair shop needed. I thought the brightness of the light was too dim when I used it in a dark room , despite the fact that Numark calls it a "super-bright" white LED. ( Maybe mine is defective?) Actually, the blue readout gave off more light than the stylus light did. The brightness of the 1200's pop up stylus light was a lot more intense than the one on the TTX1.
At the bottom (or left side) of the TTX1 there are three buttons and two wheel knobs. The two large buttons at the corners are start/stop buttons which are identical to each other (each can both start and stop the platter). The small center button changes the direction of the platter's rotation. The left wheel knob (near the left start/stop button) sets the speed of the platter start and the right wheel knob (near the other start/stop button) sets the speed of the platter brake, both with a range of 0 to 6 (0 is quick start/stop and 6 is slow start/stop). All of these controls were easy to use and had a good, responsive feel to them.
Behind the platter and located just next to the tonearm is the power button. It is recessed and out of the way so it would be very difficult to accidently power off the unit, but it is located in a spot that makes it easy to get at (e.g., it's not on the underside of the unit).
Although I briefly mentioned the key lock feature, I want to spend a little more time on this feature. Maybe you've seen the "master tempo" feature on some CD players or the "key adjust" feature on the Stanton STR8-100. Those allow the user to adjust the tempo of the song without affecting the key of the song. The TTX1 works in a similar fashion, but with one major extra advantage. You can lock in the key at any setting of the pitch fader (by pressing the key lock button) and then change the tempo by subsequently moving the pitch fader. Just about every other master tempo control that I've seen locks in the key at the zero pitch setting (the original key of the recording). With the TTX1, you get an extra degree of freedom to mix songs harmonically even if the songs were recorded in discordant keys and in differing BPMs. Pretty cool.
One important thing to note about key lock is that it ONLY works if you set the output of the deck as line level. The phono output option is true analog, but the key lock feature requires the onboard digital processor to change the key of the song, so the line level output must be used. Unfortunately, this means that your decks will occupy the line inputs on your mixer -- so it's a tough choice if you have a two-line mixer (like my Vestax PMC-06ProA) and already use the line inputs for CD players. Maybe some manufacturers will pick up on this subtlety and will add extra line inputs (three-way inputs for each channel, one phono and two line).
The average listener probably won't know when you've engaged key lock because it sounds pretty clean. But if you're like me, you'll know it. It has a tendency to alter the quantization of percussion like high hats. Simply put, it kind of throws them off a bit in their timing, but the degree to which this happens really depends upon the song itself and how much you alter the tempo. So there will be cases where key lock works really well and some where it sounds worse than if you had left key lock off and just lived with the change in key. Another observation is that key lock sometimes makes scratches sound like they're flanged.
THE FAVORITE FEATURES OF THE NUMARK TTX1:
interchangeable tonearms; the straight arm results in less skipping while scratching
multi-directional design for traditional and battle configurations
key lock
BPM counter
rugged and well designed
IMPROVEMENTS THAT CAN BE MADE TO THE UNIT:
stylus light is too dim
unfortunate (but understandable) that key lock requires use of line level output
I really like the feel of the strobe spots on the side of the 1200's platter and the TTX1's platter notches take some getting used to
Availability of the NUMARK TTX1
I think I got lucky having been able to pick up the TTX1 from a local Washington DC music store without having to pre-order. They had received 8 of the units and sold 7 very quickly. I got number 8 just in time. I called up Numark and asked them about availability. They would not comment on how many have been manufactured so far (it was worth asking anyway). They said that it depends on where you order them from, but that they are available at some stores and distributors. There is already a growing backlog of units on order. Suggested Retail is equivalent to that of the 1200.
Will Technics Innovate?
It's amazing how little has changed in the 1200 over the last 20-odd years. It is the poster child for design integrity. Well, design integrity is one thing, but hey we'd really like some new features. It will be very interesting to see what kind of reception the TTX1 gets and how Technics will respond.
Caveats
I've only had this TTX1 for a few days and there are limitations to the amount of testing I've done. For one thing, I've never used it in a club so I don't know how well isolated it is (anti-vibration). And I've only had them for a couple days, so I don't know how durable they are. You try them out for yourself. I think you'll like them.
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NUMARK TTX1 UPDATE SEPT 2002
After writing the TTX1 review for SA, I did end up selling my old 1200s and getting a second TTX1. So far, so good. There are no major negative points I'd like to make about the TTX1 other than to temper somewhat my earlier commendation for the BPM counter. It's still very good, but I have noticed a number of instances where it has been inaccurate. Usually, resetting the counter will correct the error after it has had time to recalculate the tempo.
There is one major thing that I want to make note of, though. I realized after writing the review that straight tonearms and curved tonearms have an important difference for battle djs which may not be apparent to everyone. Of course the straight arm has less skipping while scratching, but if you mark records with stickers to find cue points, the straight arm won't work very well. It's the natural tendency of a curved arm to head toward the center of the record and that's what makes the concept of marking the record viable. That's why the stylus jumps to the cue point. When you throw on
the straight arm... no worky! My experience has been that the stylus jumps *over* the marker instead of moving to the cue point. So keep that in mind if you battle and use record sensors (markers).
For those of you that want more information about straight tonearms, check out this useful page at http://www.kabusa.com/str8_doc.htm
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This review was conducted by Mike Runge for sqratchattack.com, Copyright 2002. The Numark TTX1 unit was provided by Mike Runge for review. If you have any questions on this mixer, feel free to contact Mike Runge for further information. sqratchattack provides this review for education purposes. Please do not publish or reproduce this review in any form without prior consent of the webmaster. For a complete technical breakdown of the Numark TTX1 Turntable, please visit www.numark.com.
.SQRATCHATTACK.COM.2003.
I've already read that review... what scared me about the TTX was the pitch issue. It seems after using it for a little while, there was not this problem. Which brings me back to the question... what then was the problem with some people in this forum and others dealing with the pitch not staying in sync? It seems to be a rare problem. Maybe faulty turntables or faulty users...(I don't really mean that, but its the only other explanantion if barely anyone has this problem).
I think that the main issue here was that those who were having problems with them were not giving the tables a proper chance. Most people who returned them, returned them after only a couple days (maybe 3-8 hours of mixing), which is hardly a good amount of time to become accustomed to the nuiances of a new table. Especially one with so much more torque than any other table out there.
I would say technics
the numarks are in a lot of ways a better turntable with more torque but if u intend to play clubs u will find that they all still have technics so it will be easier to get used to when u play out if u buy the technics. If u just want them for urself then the numarks are a far smoother and better turntable with more features
| quote: |
| Originally posted by gibbo I would say technics the numarks are in a lot of ways a better turntable with more torque but if u intend to play clubs u will find that they all still have technics so it will be easier to get used to when u play out if u buy the technics. If u just want them for urself then the numarks are a far smoother and better turntable with more features |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by ChavezHype I still think its short-sighted to buy TTs simply because they are used in clubs. |
and the fact that I WILL NOT spin stuff that I don't like, just so that I can spin in public. Other things that hold people back are their lack of knowledge of how clubs operate, lack of connections, lack of ability to schmooze club owners and even lack of skill and originallity, and again, in my case, the lack of time to go out and follow up on demos that you send out.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Dj Flesch I agree, not to pee on anyone's parade, but most of us here will never make it outside of our own bedrooms. I've spun out few times, but, for me, two things holding me back are the fact that there is no demand for trance where I live and the fact that I WILL NOT spin stuff that I don't like, just so that I can spin in public. Other things that hold people back are their lack of knowledge of how clubs operate, lack of connections, lack of ability to schmooze club owners and even lack of skill and originallity, and again, in my case, the lack of time to go out and follow up on demos that you send out.Just because lots of clubs have techs doesn't mean that they all do. And, no offense, but if you have different tables, and you can't pick up how to mix with techs in one transition or less, then you aren't ready to spin out anyway, so pack up, go home and make room for Djs that have a right to be there. |
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