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-- please help me mix properly. Beat matching is frustrating! seriously

please help me mix properly. Beat matching is frustrating! seriously

i have the most basic dj setup. a pair of cdj100 cd players, a djm300 mixer with a built in BPM counter, and a 500 FX with also a bpm counters.

for now i'm thining those darn BPM counters are not useful since they are not stable and they constatnly change BPMs even when the music is steady. it has this real and average light slots on and i don't know what it means and the instruction booklet don't help either. how do i change them?

anyways this is my problem. in cd1 i let the music play, then i'm told to put in a cd in player 2 and press the pause play button. when i do that, on the headphones i can hear it beeping and skipping waiting for it to be cued. well i'm suppose to turn the jog dial around clockwise to set a cue point. ok i do then what? i press cue then the music is ready to be played when i press paus play button. well i press the button then and slowly slide the fader to the right side. but it turns out all crappy and double bass jumps and just completely crap.

i use the tempo slider but it seems to take alot of time to set the BPM in synch. even when the bpms are in sync on the BPM counter the sound isn't. i'm horrible at it big time.i wish there was a button i can just press and it automatically changes the pitch and BPM for you to synch it.

for now i'm better of just letting the music play on cd1 and pressing play on cd2 and while listening to the headphones on cd2, i jjst move the tempo slider up or down and listen with one ear to the monitor and the other on the headphones and then i turn the fader to the other side. it's still a wreck but it sounds slightly better

there has to be something i'm doing wrong. i have been practicing for nearly 2 weeks now and i still suck hard. is there an easier way to beat match???? with those cdj100 and the mixer? do i have to pay attention to the BPM counters???? help me out please.

quote:

i wish there was a button i can just press and it automatically changes the pitch and BPM for you to synch it.

umm ok. Sounds like you want the fame but without the hard work.


I've seen ppl write 2000 word replys to this question so try searching .

1. Got to recess.co.uk and spend a few hours reading. It sounds like you are trying to do something practically without even understanding it in theory. Alternatively search this forum.

2. Get some black tape and cover up the BPM counters on the DJM 300.
3. Unplug the EFX500 becuase you are not going to need that for a long long time.
4. Play cd in channel 1 and have it going live (ie you can hear it through the spkrs)
5. Put a cd in cd2 and listen through ur headphones. Count the beats and on the first beat of the phrase, press pause. You'll hear a stuutering noise. Slowly wind the jog wheel back or press the << button taking the track back hundreths of a second at atime. When the thumping noise stops, you've reached the beginnning of the first beat of the phrase. Press cue. You now have your cue point stored.
6. Now listen to the live track. On the first beat of the phrase of the live track press play on cd2. Once they go out of time wind the jogwheel foward, if the tracks get further apart, slow the pitch of cd2 down and vice versa. Press cue and go through procedure again.

You've got to remember this takes some people months or even years to learn. Two weeks is fuck all time to be any good. If you've got the determination you'll get there eventually as it's not an overly difficult procedure to learn.

just 2 weeks!?!?!
and you already expect results

just wait till i tell you i've been djing for over a year now and i'm still learning new shit each and every time i mix

and a word of advise, put a piece of tape over the BPM counters
those do you more harm than good

just the other week i was playing in a club that had beat indicators on the mixer and they screwed me up cause i'd be mixing and i'd see them blinking off beat and i'd try to make them blink in sync but then the mix would be out of sync...

like i said
BPM counters are like masturbation
you think you're having fun and getting something done
but in reality you're just fucking yourself


back to the matter at hand
lock yourself in your room for 6 months and mix (or at least try to)
you need to practice till you want to throw your mixer out the window
then take a break for a bit and try it again

you're not going to learn to beatmatch overnight

bpm on mixers are crap! dont even look like at them

I've been mixing for abour 6 months and only now I get the feeling that I've got beatmatching under control. Man your post reminds me of myseld a few months ago

2 weeks..man..my first beatmatch (which was by accident) happened after 3 months!
Be patient,or give up


oh,by the way,get rid of ur BPM counters,they are worthless and u don't need them anyway.

quote:

oh,by the way,get rid of ur BPM counters,they are worthless and u don't need them anyway.

that's true, they suck and when you need them, you'll never be able to beatmatch decently.(just my humble advice but i think alot of ppl will agree with it )

As said before, two weeks is nothing. I got my decks September
last year and can beatmatch pretty good right now altho I fuck up
pretty often too, but that is what keeps me going. Looking back to see
that I have really progressed and can really hear the difference on
two tunes that is totally in phase and two that is sloooowly gliding
a part. Now that is cool stuff.

If you want to "show off" to your friends it will be much cooler to
beatmatch by your ears, if you just wanna make mixes, use traktor
or whatever. Thoose programs have beatlocks. But it really takes all
the fun out of it, listen to one of all of thoose who have gone from
mixing at a 'puter and to the real stuff.

What will start to happen in another two weeks? Problably nothing.
You will be stuck with your fones to your ears trying to hear which
track is which. But its not the transitions that comes to you like
a flash in the night, its the ability to hear changes that
comes to you. And I warn you, you will hear all sorts of shit.

You will after a while instantly hear when someone is changing pitch,
if the volume goes up or down (atleast i do theese days) and so on.
But its all a part of learning.

Learning takes time.
So do whats good for you and tape over thoose yucky BPM counters and
start doing the real thing.
Good luck.

thanks for the replie peeps

sorry, i sort of give up too early sometimes. 2 weeks of practice seems alot to me. i thought i would get it or other djs will get it within the first few days.

one thing is that yeah there is a stutter or skipping when i press play pause button. so i ddin't know what to look for. so now i know what to look for and that is the stopping of the skipping sound. thanks.

yeah those BPM counters is severley annoying. i depended myself on those things heavily. its just that after playing around with traktor with its ever so easy BPM lock makes me feel good and when i use th eactually big boys, i suck hard big time.

but i will keep trying. and feel free to give me more advice. now i can't wait to come home from work and play around with my stuff.

Al I can say is

1 Forget about Traktor, it's a stupid program that doesn't help you for real mixing

2 Stay calm en don't take it all to seriously, if you do you will eventually give up when you don't notice changements. Remember it's all about the music you love to hear. Not about making money, impress your friends or get rich. It's all about the music.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ_Shockwav BPM counters are like masturbation you think you're having fun and getting something done but in reality you're just fucking yourself

bwahaha that is going in my sig. fucking classic

bpm counters do have a purpose i suppose, to see how fast you are actually playing and too see if you can keep you set exactly the same speed all the way thru which the main one on my djm 600s does just fine. i find it useful to sort out my sets, like some tunes sound really fast like the starecase mix of vega but are infact slow as fuck, useful tool.

although BPM COUNTERS ARE SHITE FOR BEATMATCHING

you yourself a favour buy $1.50 roll of black electrical tape and put the ******s to sleep, leave the one on your mixer for reasons mentioned in top paragraph.

Personally, I don't know why everyone has a huge gripe about BPM counters. It doesn't make you any more or less of a Dj if you do or don't use one. The main point is that BPM counters are ment to do just that, count the beats per minute so that you can have a freakin clue to which track is faster or slower and by about how much.

BPM counters will help you beatmatch, they will NOT beatmatch for you, and by the semi-angry and frustrated tones of those above who hate and swear at them, they were the ones that were expecting the BPM counter to actually beatmatch their song for them!

A BPM counter is a tool, and as a Dj, if you don't know how to use the tools around you, or don't use the tools around you, you will be at a disadvantage to those that do have this knowledge. As I have already stated, a BPM counter is ment to give you an approximate idea of how fast your track is so that you can take 3 seconds of time to get the beats close to the same speed. You can do the same thing without a beat counter, but it takes many seconds longer to do the same thing. That is the purpose of this tool--reduction of time, because time is not on a Dj's side during a mix.

Think of it this way, I can ignore the beat counter and listen to the track and say, hey, that is way to slow (let's say the cue is at 120 and I'm spinning at 140). Then I will slowly adjust the pitch until it becomes a bit faster etc. Then I've got to go back to my cue point, press play and start that over again until the two track are beatmatched. If the initial difference between the two track is 20 BPM, then it will take me longer than if the initial difference is between 1-2 BPM (about the accuracy range of a BPM). So instead of spending maybe a minute trying to slide the pitch fader 20BPM, I'll look at the BPM counter and slide it up to that 1-2 BPM range and start there.

Beatmatching is being able to repeat the cycle of pressing play on the first beat, adjusting the jog wheel to synch the beat for one or two beats, adjusting the pitch accordingly to make the beats more in synch, then repeating the cycle until your tracks are beatmatched. It stands to reason that the fewer number of times that you have to do this, the quicker you can beatmatch two tracks. This is exactly what the BPM counter's function is--to let you reduce the number of the above cycles it takes for you to beatmatch two tracks. Again, let me state that it will not help you in any degree to actually have the ability to seamlessly beatmatch, it just gives you more time to try!

Aldrian, as someone said in one of the posts here, you will have to train your ears on what to listen for. Most of the time Djs will keep trying to listen to the bass beats to try to distinguish if the track is too fast or too slow. But as your brain quickly becomes frustrated that it is very difficult to do this, it will uncontiously search for another way to find this distinction. To cut to the chase, I will tell you what to listen for so that it will be a little easier for you to learn how to train your ear.

As I said, the bass beats are very hard to tell apart because most techno beats use very similar if not the same type of drum. So instead of listening to bass, try listening to the hi hat, or the other higher pitched instruments that are much easier to distinguish from track to track. And in doing this, try to use two tracks that have very different highs. Silverblue is a great artist with very distinct high pitch instruments. Try mixing in a Silverblue track with something else that is pretty simple compaired to that. Most importantly, once you learn how to beatmatch two track, be aware that this will be only the first in many lessons to come. You will still have to learn about phrase matching and in-phrase transitioning, effects, timing, volumes, gain structure and many many other things. Djing is complicated and beatmatching is probably one of the first and most necissary lessons. Learn this well before you go onto other things, but don't ever forget that there ARE infact lots of other things that you will need to learn after this!

I think DJs who use BPM counters and "learn to use them" has a disadvantage.
They take precious time away from a moment where they can continue
to train themselves and their own ears.

If you start to use them there is a huge possibility that you might
become to reliable TOO much on them, say you come to a club without
any BPM counters and you are a bit rusty when it comes to matching
with your ears but an "ace" when you matches with counters, not good.
That could be your future carrear you are throwing out of the window
just because you want a little machine to do some of the work for you.

But on the other hand, if you always rely to your ears and learn to do
it by yourself you will always get by, I have yet not seen a DJ come
to a club and not bringing his ears with him.

I dont know about cds tho, I only mix vinyl and sure in the start
there was a painstaking course of matching, i was never able to match
before the tune ended (8+ minutes) and now it takes me about 10 seconds
at max. I dont decrease/increase the pitch slowly, you hear where the
pitch should be and move the slider there and I expect to get even
better with more training.

If I was to use a BPM counter to guide me, well, why? I have prolly
matched the beats before the counters have gotten a semi-good guess
at the true BPM.

But ofcourse, this is on vinyl, I dont know cds, I have never tried
spinning cd and will prolly not do that in the near future.
A BPM counter is nothing that you NEED to know how to handle or use,
a mixer is important to be able to handle, the players and F/X machines
if you want to use thoose, but a BPM counter is not important for you
spinning.

Just bring your well trained ears and you will be alright.

I'm sure many will agree with me, and I'm sure we've all mentionned it in some way or another in reply to this post....

PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE

quote:

Originally posted by webbie I think DJs who use BPM counters and "learn to use them" has a disadvantage. They take precious time away from a moment where they can continue to train themselves and their own ears. If you start to use them there is a huge possibility that you might become to reliable TOO much on them, say you come to a club without any BPM counters and you are a bit rusty when it comes to matching with your ears but an "ace" when you matches with counters, not good. That could be your future carrear you are throwing out of the window just because you want a little machine to do some of the work for you. But on the other hand, if you always rely to your ears and learn to do it by yourself you will always get by, I have yet not seen a DJ come to a club and not bringing his ears with him. I dont know about cds tho, I only mix vinyl and sure in the start there was a painstaking course of matching, i was never able to match before the tune ended (8+ minutes) and now it takes me about 10 seconds at max. I dont decrease/increase the pitch slowly, you hear where the pitch should be and move the slider there and I expect to get even better with more training. If I was to use a BPM counter to guide me, well, why? I have prolly matched the beats before the counters have gotten a semi-good guess at the true BPM. But ofcourse, this is on vinyl, I dont know cds, I have never tried spinning cd and will prolly not do that in the near future. A BPM counter is nothing that you NEED to know how to handle or use, a mixer is important to be able to handle, the players and F/X machines if you want to use thoose, but a BPM counter is not important for you spinning. Just bring your well trained ears and you will be alright.

I will address my position to your post on a point by point statement.

First you state that Djs who learn to use a BPM counter have a disadvantage, but my whole point to my first post is that if you learn to use a BPM counter as a shortcut tool instead of something that you "depend on" to beatmatch, then there is no time taken away from training your ears to listen to what is important. The important part is being able to sync two beats with absolute perfection. As I stated before, a BPM counter can never help you do this, it will only help you to reduce the time that it takes you to do this. And if you need to take more time to train your ears, then go ahead. The painfull process of learning how to beatmatch can be learned quicker, in my opinion, with the PROPER use of a BPM counter.

Your second point was the dependance on a BPM counter. In no way, if you use the BPM counter the correct way, will you ever become dependant on it. As I have stated so many times now, it is only a shortcut tool to help you reduce the time it takes you to beatmatch, and again, it does not instill the ability to beat match in you. If you can't beatmatch without a BPM counter, then either you are not using the counter in the right way, or you really haven't learned how to beatmatch in the first place. If you train your ears to learn how to synch the beats, then why would you trust the BPM counter over your own ears? Ever? Your own ears are, as you said, the only things that every Dj brings with them. These are ultimately what helps you to beatmatch, NOT the BPM counter. Again, to reitterate, the BPM counter will NOT give you the ability to perfectly beatmatch, it is ONLY a shortcut to get you there quicker and if you don't have one, then well, it may take you a bit longer, but in no way should you become dependant on it because if you can beatmatch in the first place, the lack of a beat counter can not take that away. My main point is that if you are just starting out, then it is a way to help you learn much quicker. Once you learn how to beatmatch, that doesn't go away. If you are an "ace" with the BPM counter, then you will definitely be an "ace" without one, becaues the BPM counter doesn't sych the tunes--you do!! My position is that you can't be an "ace" with a BPM counter if you are not and "ace" without one. Once your ears are trained, then that is it. Period.

And as you said, "if you always rely on your ears and learn to do it by yourself you will always get by". I totally agree, because, again, to repeat myself, the BPM counter doesn't beatmatch for you! It is a tool to help you beatmatch quicker!

As far as not being able to deal with the "painstaking course of matching", it would have been much easier if you could have eliminated the obvious differences in tempo right of the bat with your BPM counter and progressed right to the fine tuning very quickly, which is exactly what a BPM counter helps you do. Cds are no different than vinyl, just the physical manipulation of the equipment is a bit different.

And how can you say that it takes you 10 seconds to beatmatch? It takes me almost 10 seconds or more just to set my cue point, adjust the gain and switch over the proper headphone cue buttons on the mixer! Then it will take me another 3-5 seconds to course tune the beat to within a couple BPM. From there it takes over a minute because when you are fine tuning the beatmatch, sometimes it takes over 20 beats (about 10 seconds at 140BPm) just to let the beats separate. Then you have to check one last time to make sure. At BEST, you are spending about 30-40 seconds to beatmatch--more than likely it take over a minute and you're really not accurately portraying how long it really takes you to beatmatch.

A BPM counter, as you said, should not be something that you need. I agree. You should never NEED it, but as I've been saying all along, if you learn how to use it properly, then it will help you beatmatch much quicker so that you can spend time on things like learning how to use your sampler or effects. I do think that a BPM counter IS important though, to help you spin more efficiently and to allow you more time to do things like effects. As I said in my first post, there is SO much more to Djing then beatmatching. If you are so concerned about beatmatching and taking the long way to do it, then you will never survive as a Dj because you can never spend any of the 6 or so minutes per track that you play doing anything else other than beatmatching. If you can use a tool to allow you to free up part of your time, why is everyone resisting the use of a tool that can help so much? Fuck being able to "do it the hard way" There is no hard way, there is only the smart way and the stupid way. The stuipd way takes more time and is much less efficient.

Your last statement was "Just bring your well trained ears and you will be alright." If you don't have well trained ears in the first place, you shouldn't be spinning out. Maybe that is why people are so against BPM counters, because they feel the intense urge to spin out before they are ready to do so. Patience is a virtue.

i would say there is somekinda phenomonon (or how the heck u spell it) called "Pitch-ear" some people are born with it, and can learn to beatmatch in a few hours, for some people it takes month's and i even know people who have used years and still cant get it to sound proper!

and as other peeps in here mentioned, practise, practise, practise, practise and patience is the keywords!

It's true, and afer hours of practising, you'll have a pitch ear too. You'll hear 2 tracks on eachother and you'll know almost immediately: Oh, i have to add 2%'s... But, that does take practise...
If you immediately think about making money from dj'ing, forget it. You'll hear you suck and you'll give up after less than a month, You have to work, work, work, work... and work. One day, you'll get the hang of beatmatching...

Im not even gonna read what everyone wrote.
All I can say is, you cant be told how to mix right, it has to be learned. Patience is what is key with it. Yes its hard, yes you will fuck up alot, but the point is to keep trying. We dont have your ears, so we cant tell you what to do. Its kinda like riding a bike, the first few times, you will fall and bust your ass, but once you figure it out and learn how to do it, you will never ever forget.

Practice makes perfection it took me 2 years but it's worth it

only 2 weeks eh?? okay let me tell my story got my tables in Sept. of last year beat matching ddi hit me till.....im going to let you guess.........................Feb. of this year..that didnt stop me becuase i wanted it that bad.. i started mixing for like 3 hours a day and still didnt get it up untill the point where i did a fluke and it was matched... didnt under stand how i did it but i sat down and started thinking about how i ddi it and it didnt make since. Then I i would get other songs matched up not relizing it and i would notice that one song is faster than the other and slide my finger on the record to slow it down and it would be matched agian for about 2 senconds then be faster again. So I slid my finger on the record again and moved the pitch down a notch and this time it tiook 3 seconds to be faster aagin. Did this untill Ch. 1 song was over and started the record again and repeated the proses. and some how it clicked in my head how to go about doing it. And now it all makes since on how its done..with practice and the want to do it..

my thoughts are dont expect to be PvD next week not gonna happen just practice and one day for you it will click and you will be like WTF?? and continue progressing in your skills more and more untill you enjoy it and relize where you came from...

Also it helps to record your self because you can see what your doing wrong from the crowds point of view not your own becuase your involved with the tables at the moment and you dont pay attention as ,uch as the crowd dose so record your self like maybe once every 2 weeks

good luck hope i helped just a little bit

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