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-- Zion's Christian Soldiers
Zion's Christian Soldiers
Transmitted below is the transcript of a feature
story on CBS TV's "60 Minutes" program. A very
interesting read. I, personally, find it difficult
to believe that there are so many mentally deficient
people roaming around in the most developed country
of the world. There seems to be 70 million of them,
or so they claim, which means that 25% of the US
population is a candidate for the nut-house. What a
catastrophe - not only for the Middle East but also
for the whole world. And the irony is that the Arabs
are being pressured to root out the religious
crazies in their midst!
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002...ble524268.shtml
Zion's Christian Soldiers
June 8, 2003
This week, Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon told
President Bush that he would start to dismantle some
illegal Jewish settlements on the West Bank as part
of an agreement with the new Palestinian Prime
Minister.
That news has already alarmed those Jewish settlers
-- and ultra-Zionist Israelis who believe that the
Jewish State should control all of the Biblical
Jewish homeland.
But they're not the only group that feels that way.
So do Fundamentalist Christian Evangelicals who make
up the largest single religious grouping in the
United States. Correspondent Bob Simon first
reported this story on October 6, 2002.
What's the number one item on the agenda of the
Christian Right? Abortion? School Prayer? No and No.
Believe it or not, what's most important to a lot of
conservative Christians is the Jewish State. Israel:
Its size, its strength, and its survival. Why?
There is the alliance between America and Israel in
the war on Islamic terror. But it goes deeper. For
Christians who interpret the bible in a literal
fashion, Israel has a crucial role to play in
bringing on the Second Coming of Christ.
Last fall, supporters of the Christian Coalition
gathered on the Mall in Washington to express their
faith and to lobby the administration. The rally was
organized by the Christian Coalition, which wants to
make sure that the Bush Administration sees the
struggle in the Middle East between Jews and Muslims
their way - the Christian way.
At one congregation in Colorado, it's Israel
Awareness Day. But this is not a Jewish
congregation. They are all Christians. Not only are
they holding these pep rallies all across America,
they're also streaming here to Israel, to the
dangerous streets of Jerusalem to express their
undying devotion.
American Christian Zionists say they are now a more
important source of support for Israel than American
Jews or the traditional Jewish lobby.
"It is my belief that the Bible Belt in America is
Israel's only safety belt right now," says Rev.
Jerry Falwell, one of the leaders of the Christian
Right. That's the bulk of Evangelical Christians;
Falwell claims to speak for all of them.
"There are 70 million of us," he says. "And if
there's one thing that brings us together quickly
it's whenever we begin to detect our government
becoming a little anti-Israel."
Falwell began to detect just that in April 2002 when
President Bush called on Israel to withdraw its
tanks from Palestinian towns on the West Bank. So
Falwell shot off a letter of protest to the White
House, which was followed by a hundred thousand
e-mails from Christian conservatives. Israel did not
move its tanks. Mr. Bush did not ask again.
"There's nothing that would bring the wrath of the
Christian public in this country down on this
government like abandoning or opposing Israel in a
critical matter," Falwell says. The "Christian
public" is, he says, Mr. Bush's core constituency.
"I really believe when the chips are down Ariel
Sharon can trust George Bush to do the right thing
every time," says Falwell.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prime Minister Sharon can apparently trust the
Christian Evangelicals to do the right thing too.
They treated him like a rock star when they flocked
to Jerusalem last fall to celebrate the Jewish Feast
of Tabernacles.
What propels them? Why do they love Israel so much?
The return of the Jews to their ancient homeland is
seen by Evangelicals as a precondition for the
Second Coming of Christ. Therefore, when the Jewish
state was created in 1948 they saw it as a sign.
Israel's conquest of Jerusalem and the West Bank in
1967 also deepened their excitement and heightened
their anticipation. And today's war between Jews and
Arabs was also prophesied, they say. They've seen it
all before - in the pages of the Bible.
"The Bible does not contain the word of God," says
Ed McAteer. "Listen to me closely. The Bible is the
word of God." McAteer is known as the Godfather of
the Christian Right. He's a former Colgate marketing
executive from Memphis, and a founder of the Moral
Majority.
McAteer believes that the current situation is the
beginning of the final battle. "I believe that we
are seeing prophecy unfold so rapidly and
dramatically and wonderfully and, without
exaggerating, makes me breathless."
But he's not the only one. Countless millions of
Americans are reading a series of novels called
"Left Behind." These novels are topping bestseller
lists all over the country and they're being made
into movies. They chronicle apocalyptic times, and
the setting is the 21st century, complete with war
planes and TV correspondents.
However, the plot is ripped from the pages of the
Bible, so it all winds up here in Israel where,
according to the Book of Revelations, the final
battle in the history of the future will be fought
on an ancient battlefield in northern Israel called
Armageddon. It will follow seven years of
tribulation during which the earth will be shaken by
such disasters that previous human history will seem
like a day in the country. The blood will rise as
high as a horse's bridle at Armageddon, before
Christ triumphs to begin his 1,000-year rule.
And the Jews? Well, two-thirds of them will have
been wiped out by now. But the survivors will accept
Jesus at last.
"The Jews die or convert. As a Jew, I can't feel
very comfortable with the affections of somebody who
looks forward to that scenario," says Gershom
Gorenberg, who knows that scenario well.
Gorenberg is the author of the "End of Days," a book
about those Christian evangelicals who choose to
read the Bible literally. "They don't love real
Jewish people. They love us as characters in their
story, in their play, and that's not who we are, and
we never auditioned for that part, and the play is
not one that ends up good for us."
"If you listen to the drama they're describing,
essentially it's a five-act play in which the Jews
disappear in the fourth act."
But if that makes Gershom Gorenberg feel
uncomfortable, these Christians say it's only
because he doesn't understand how deeply they love
him.
"The Jews need conversion," says Kay Arthur. "They
need to know that the Messiah is coming. And the
Bible tells us what's going to happen." Arthur heads
an organization called Precept Ministries in
Chattanooga, Tenn. She brings thousands of pilgrims
to the Holy Land.
The Christian fundamentalists believe the only
Israelis who are really listening to God are the
hard line Jewish settlers who live on the West Bank
and Gaza and refuse to move. The Christians trudge
up to these settlements as if they were making
pilgrimages to holy shrines. That's because they and
the settlers share a core conviction.
They believe that God gave the land of Israel to the
Jewish people. "Every grain of sand, every grain of
sand between the Dead Sea, the Jordan River, and,
and the Mediterranean Sea belongs to the Jews," says
McAteer. This includes the West Bank and Gaza.
What about the three million Palestinians who live
on the West Bank and Gaza? McAteer suggests the bulk
of them could be cleansed from this God-given real
estate and moved to some Arab country. Nothing can
come between the Jews and their land.
In fact, many fundamentalists believe that when
Prime Minister Rabin signed the Oslo accords and
offered to trade land for peace, it was not only a
mistake, it was a sin.
"They were going against the word of God. You cannot
go against the word of God. And I believe that God
stopped it ... by the things that happened." says
Arthur. She hints that God punished Rabin by
assassinating him. "I think that God did not want
that Oslo Accord to go through."
"God save us from these people," says political
analyst Yossi Alfer, who served 12 years in Israel's
intelligence agency, the Mossad. Later, he became
Israel Director of the American Jewish Committee.
Says Alfer: "When you see what these people are
encouraging Israel and the U.S. Administration to do
that is, ignore the Palestinians, if not worse, if
not kick them out, expand the settlements to the
greatest extent possible, they are leading us into a
scenario of out and out disaster."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But many American Jewish leaders who used to shun
support from the Christian Right have changed their
minds. Abe Foxman, head of the Anti-Defamation
League, accepts their support.
"On this specific issue on this day we come
together. And what is the issue? The issue is
fighting terrorism," Foxman says.
That is precisely what the Bush Administration and
the Israeli Government have been saying since
September 11, that they are allies in the war on
terror. But the Christian Fundamentalists go
further. They say it is not just an alliance between
nations but between religions.
"A lot of Muslims feel these days that Christians
and Jews are getting together and ganging up on
them," Simon said to Falwell.
"That's true. I'm sorry, that's true. I hope it will
cease to be so. But I think that is the fact right
now," says Falwell.
Falwell believes most Muslims want to live in peace
but, he says, the lines have been drawn. Christians
and Jews are on one side, Muslims on the other and,
he says, those lines were drawn more than a thousand
years ago.
"You wrote an approving piece recently about a book
called 'Unveiling Islam,'" says Simon to Falwell.
"And you, the authors of that book wrote, 'The
Muslim who commits acts of violence in jihad does so
with the approval of Mohammed.' Do you believe
that?"
"I do," says Falwell. "I think Mohammed was a
terrorist. I read enough of the history of his life,
written by both Muslims and non-Muslims, that he was
a violent man, a man of war."
"So, in the same way that Moses provided the
ultimate example for the Jews and same way that
Jesus provided the ultimate example for Christians,
Mohammed provided the ultimate example for Muslims
and he was a terrorist," asks Simon.
"In my opinion," says Fallwell. "And I do believe
that - Jesus set the example for love, as did Moses.
And I think that Mohammed set an opposite example."
What frightens Alfer is that he hears much of
Falwell's world view reflected in the words of the
Bush Administration.
"When we hear expressions like "the evil ones," this
kind of black and white view of good guys, the bad
guys," says Alfer.
But as long as Jews are the good guys in this
representation, this is good for the Jews, isn't it?
"It's not good for the Jews. It's not good for the
Jews," says Alfer. We have to get God out of this
conflict if we're going to have any chance to
survive as a healthy, secure Jewish state."
� MMII, CBS Worldwide Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Well I think you're getting the wrong idea from the article. Are there 70 million christians in the US? Yea probably, I think it's the predominant religion in the US. Are there nutjob christians ... haha absolutely. Are those 70 million christians nut job fanatics? I sincerely doubt that. I guess I could be considered christian. The only time you really hear about christians in the news are when idiots like falwell and his ignorant supporters say something extremist. So when you hear something in the news about bible belt christian extremists I wouldn't speculate that that behaviour is typical of the rest of the christian population.
Jesus is not coming back you fucking idiots!!!!!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Cyrus King Jesus is not coming back you fucking idiots!!!!! |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by hardcore trancer lol seriously!! ya ffs we are in 2003,not 200 Bc!!! so lets kill all the Arabs before Jesus comes back!! |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Shakka LOL. Though I doubt the second coming of Christ would occur 200 years before the first coming.. |
Very interesting article, and also very scary.
I was already familiar with the situation before you posted this. All of this is true in the US and quite scary. By the way, I'm Jewish.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Eugene Very interesting article, and also very scary. I was already familiar with the situation before you posted this. All of this is true in the US and quite scary. By the way, I'm Jewish. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by hardcore trancer I swear man some people still live in stone age!! it is funny how they say how some countries like Iran shouldnt base their country on religion,yet Isreal is occupying lands for jesus's resurection!! |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Shakka Well, yeah--and they occupy the land because they live there. |
The good news is that these fanatics are only 1/4 of the population.
I was under the (depressing) impression that they constituted at least half of the country, because our media, politics and TV here are very influenced by their "morality."
When you learn that 3/4s (a sizeable majority) are normal, that brings relief.
If you ask me about the Holy Land, I think both Jews and Muslims live there, that's the reality, and they should co-exist in peace.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Eugene If you ask me about the Holy Land, I think both Jews and Muslims live there, that's the reality, and they should co-exist in peace. |
There's really only one thing I can say about this subject (for all of you living in America you know what I mean)....Jerry Falwell is nothing but an ultra-conservative dickhead. All he can do is spout propaganda and act like he gives two shits about anything besides his own party. And let's not get started with that stupid right-wing Christian Coalition. The members of that are more conservative then Jesse Helms, Strom Thurman and and that other old guy that I can remember rolled up into one. I just hate seeing shit like this. When i say "Shit like this" i don't mean people suppourting Israel. If they want to suppourt Israel, by all ean let them, theire actions are protected by the Amendments. But, This dumbshit Falwell makes all of us Christians living in America seem like ultra-conservative bible-beaters. I swear, this guy reminds me sooo much of the leaders of the Waco and Heaven's Gate cults (whose names I can't remember off the top of my head). 
| quote: |
| Originally posted by hardcore trancer it is funny how they say how some countries like Iran shouldnt base their country on religion,yet Isreal is occupying lands for jesus's resurection!! |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by trancaholic Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand things, Jews do not regard Jesus as their Mesiah. Only Christians do that - Jews are still waiting for theirs. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by hardcore trancer mmm I see,so Iam guessing in order to achieve goal then they have to destroy all the Arabs right?? |
I have pretty much just one thing to say in regards to all this conservative/Christain bashing:
*gets flame shield on*
It's WASPs that are fucking up the country
I don't understand why the ultra-christians are right wing. Jesus is all about selling all of you belongings and helping the poor, but the conservatives want to cut back funding for the poor and give tax cuts that favor the rich. I don't understand!
its called hipocracy.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by hardcore trancer mmm I see,so Iam guessing in order to achieve goal then they have to destroy all the Arabs right?? |
i agree that this is an interesting article ..
i always just find it so hard to believe that some in the US would lobby so strongly for such action simply due to religious purposes. i also agree with occrider's comments about how news like this always seems to make headlines given its controversial remarks. it just amazes me how so many people can be persuaded by people like Falwell..
oh yea, great site as some of you might already know:
www.religioustolerance.org
| quote: |
| Originally posted by surferfb I don't understand why the ultra-christians are right wing. Jesus is all about selling all of you belongings and helping the poor, but the conservatives want to cut back funding for the poor and give tax cuts that favor the rich. I don't understand! |
I see something evolving here. Religion and Politics, probobably 2 of the most critical, controversial issues. Each one has a belief. One thing I dont think is right is.. religious leaders telling the gov't what to do. I mean, if one is religious and really understands the situation, things happen for a reason, and for the christians that believe on the second coming, Jesus will not say" Oh The Israeli president told the jewish group to move out and to take the tanks out from the Palestine territories etc etc ..so Im not going back now " Things sometimes happen for a reason, but a prophecy is a prophecy, and they wont change no matter what. ( Thats for the believers ". Bush nor Sharom will change the prophecys.. we are not here to MAKE the prophecy if ya know what I mean.
I dont offend anyone who believes on something else. I respect.. but something I wont tollerate is someone cursing over peoples beliefs. And Cirus King.. dood, just learn to respect.. if you dont believe it fine. Id be glad to hear on what you believe on and talk about it. But for the sake of it.. you dont have to be cursing and acting all SMART ASS and crap.. know what I mean?!?! In a good way.
Christianism< Is not a religion, its for all of those that believe in Jesus and the second coming.. theres so many Christian religions. So generalizing what a Christian religion does, does not mean that christians as a whole want to do the same.
Anyways, Im Christian.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by LiquidX I see something evolving here. Religion and Politics, probobably 2 of the most critical, controversial issues. Each one has a belief. One thing I dont think is right is.. religious leaders telling the gov't what to do. I mean, if one is religious and really understands the situation, things happen for a reason, and for the christians that believe on the second coming, Jesus will not say" Oh The Israeli president told the jewish group to move out and to take the tanks out from the Palestine territories etc etc ..so Im not going back now " Things sometimes happen for a reason, but a prophecy is a prophecy, and they wont change no matter what. ( Thats for the believers ". Bush nor Sharom will change the prophecys.. we are not here to MAKE the prophecy if ya know what I mean. I dont offend anyone who believes on something else. I respect.. but something I wont tollerate is someone cursing over peoples beliefs. And Cirus King.. dood, just learn to respect.. if you dont believe it fine. Id be glad to hear on what you believe on and talk about it. But for the sake of it.. you dont have to be cursing and acting all SMART ASS and crap.. know what I mean?!?! In a good way. Christianism< Is not a religion, its for all of those that believe in Jesus and the second coming.. theres so many Christian religions. So generalizing what a Christian religion does, does not mean that christians as a whole want to do the same. Anyways, Im Christian. |
I think that Extremists are idiots, yes. But its also a source for information. Its more of a moral tool for living the right way, and a layout for people to live.. Happy and correctly.
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