Straight Vs S-shaped tone arms...

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-- Straight Vs S-shaped tone arms...

Posted by RobertRollie on Jul-01-2003 12:55:

Straight Vs S-shaped tone arms...

I have heard that straight arm is better for scratching because it holds the groove better but it causes more record wear, and i've also been told they distrot the sound a little? S-arm supposedly gives a cleaner sound but skips more easily...

What are people's opinions? Which is better? Basically I'm tossing up between technics 1200's and stanton STR8-100's, and my only conern is im not sure about the straight arm on the stantons...?

DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A TECHNICS VS STANTON THREAD... I'm aware of the differences in both im just interested int he tone arm :P

Posted by Dj Thy on Jul-01-2003 15:55:

I think you answered your own question already.

Straight holds the groove better but wears out faster and has some extra distortion.
S-shaped is more apt to skip when not being careful, but sound quality is a little higher and wear is less.

So if skip resistance is your main concern (if you're a turntablist) go straight. Altough up to know the best of the turntablists were using Techs for their routines, so it shows that a correctly set up s-shape arm isn't THAT easy to skip either.

If you're mainly mixing, stay S-shaped...

Posted by hey cheggy on Jul-01-2003 17:22:

Mixing = curved
Scratching = straight

Totally worthless in the debate, but I think curved ones looks nicer too.

Posted by Tiger777 on Jul-01-2003 18:34:

Yup... I totally agree with that

Posted by P`zazz on Jul-02-2003 06:38:

oh come on why do you people have to be so narrow-minded

vinyl cutters cut throught vinyl vertically, straight tone arms follow this vertical direction more closely than S-shaped tone arms, with this being said straight tone arms can be assumed to have a higher sound quality output than s-shaped tone arms, about record wear I dont know.

wtf why do you support s-shaped arms so passionately ffs? is it because the beloved technics you worship like a god are s-shaped? man people act like they have been brainwashep :/

@hey cheggy - straight arms are sexier, sorry

Posted by Tiger777 on Jul-02-2003 09:41:

Posted by Dj Thy on Jul-02-2003 10:22:

quote:
Originally posted by P`zazz
oh come on why do you people have to be so narrow-minded

vinyl cutters cut throught vinyl vertically, straight tone arms follow this vertical direction more closely than S-shaped tone arms, with this being said straight tone arms can be assumed to have a higher sound quality output than s-shaped tone arms, about record wear I dont know.

Maybe, but please tell the whole story!

There is a major pitfall which I think a lot of people miss. It has to do with the cartridge mounting when using the S-shaped tonearm. First of all, if you're using the tt's for anything other than scratching don't use the straight arm. It degrades the sound quality dramatically.
Why is this? When the records are cut, the stylus is moved in a straight line towards the center. A straight tonearm moves in an arc, and to avoid distortion the stylus should always be parallell to the tangent of the record. With an S-shaped arm the arm will not move in a straight line towards the spindle, but will allow the cartridge to stay parallell to the tangent with very little error.

Most straight arms are shorter (except in hifi tt's), thus have no overhang. The cartridge is inline with the deliberately-short tonearm, but several issues stem from this.... This design totally reduces the lateral forces that need to be corrected via anti-skating on normal turntables. Most STR8 TT's have no antiskating dial. By shortening the tonearm, they eliminate the need. This helps the needle track wonderfully in scratching and back-cueing situations. However, for playing records (yes, your precious records), STR8 arms aren't as good. Having no overhang on that type of arm produces azimuth and phase errors between the left and right channels. This distortion is a result of the needle NOT being tangent to the record groove during play (meaning that it points in a different direction depending on it's position on the record). In fact, it changes depending on where you are on the record. At the beginning of the record, there will be increased wear on the inner groove of the vinyl. The needle will track perfectly halfway through the record, then the increased wear will shift to the outer groove during the latter half of the record. So, the distortion will shift from left to right during play. Yes, this fscks-up your records.

So, there's a huge tradeoff. You trade sound quality and record wear for better tracking with those straight-arm Vestax tables. This is of no concern for a scratch DJ, but is an issue if you value your vinyl. I hope this helps.

http://www.kabusa.com/str8_doc.htm has a nice explanation too.

So to sum up the general points :
- S shaped arms (also called offset arms) are best for sound quality and minimal wear
- Str8 arms that are long enough (with right overhang) and have a little angle in the cartridge are decent also
- Most dj Str8 arms have underhang, so they distort more, wear out faster, but track better
- Angling the cartridge on such arms will maybe improve things over one part of the record, but get worse on the other part. Keep it straight.
- Ortofon Concorde carts are designed for S-shaped arms, so they are best not used for Str8 arms. If you want an ortofon, prefer the OM series then (those you need to put on a headshell). Or if you want a P-mount : shure whitelabel, it has flexible overhang.

A little info, you know most turntablists use stickers to mark certain points on the record. With S-shaped arms this method works perfectly (the tonearm jumps to the next groove, where the desired sample/beat is). With Str8 arms, half of the time that doesn't work, because the needle jumps straight over the sticker (not aside)...

Posted by RobertRollie on Jul-02-2003 12:02:

Thanx Thy, thats the kind of answer i was looking for

Posted by trancearmada on Jul-02-2003 21:51:

would it not all matter based on what kind of carts u use anyway regardless of the shape of the tone arm? I mean if you use crappy carts that you don't clean on regular basis (they will ruin your vinyls no matter) vs. hi-grade pro carts that are maintained (will not do as much damage).
Also what about the weight settings. I mean depending on what type of settings you use, will depend on how fast your vinyls wear out...

Posted by JohnSmith on Jul-02-2003 22:00:

thanks thy, that all made perfect sense, except for this:

quote:
Originally posted by Dj Thy
A little info, you know most turntablists use stickers to mark certain points on the record. With S-shaped arms this method works perfectly (the tonearm jumps to the next groove, where the desired sample/beat is). With Str8 arms, half of the time that doesn't work, because the needle jumps straight over the sticker (not aside)...

that doesn't make sense to me, if the needle skips, then the needle skips, and if it skips, your needle is a full rotation away from where you wanted to be. what difference would it make if it's straight or curved?

Posted by Dj Thy on Jul-03-2003 07:02:

It's all in the tangential forces... An S-shaped arm has always the tendency to go inward. That's why they put the antiskate on the TT's. The straight arm is designed to not have that tendency (but because of that it touches the groove in another way (that's why it distors and wears out faster).

Tried and tested. Sometimes the sticker trick works, but most of the time it just jumps over the sticker and doesn't land where it should.

Posted by JohnSmith on Jul-03-2003 07:27:

yeah, i know curved skips easier.. but...

nevermind.