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Posted by d.j.f.c. on Jul-06-2003 20:50:

carts and needles

which carts and needles are the best.....shure,,,stanton
..ortofon....tracfkmaster,,,,

Posted by TwiloThunder on Jul-06-2003 21:20:

It sort of depends on what sort of music you wish to play, eg many people prefer different needles for hip-hop/scratching compared to people who mix trance/prog etc.

If you do a search you will find several posts about this topic

Personally, Ortofon Nightclubs

Posted by Tiger777 on Jul-06-2003 23:10:

Orfofon needles are of a very high quality. I'd prefer the concords or the nightclubs if you want to just mix. If you want to scratch... get the concorde scratch. (how original )

Posted by bachatu on Jul-07-2003 00:03:

for sure its not the trackmaster from stanton.
Im surprised that they market the trackmaster series as one of their high end needles, cause if thats the case, I'll be afraid to touch anything else Stanton.
Ive recently switched from the Stanton Trackmaster II to Shure M35x, and boy... big difference.
First, the highs are clean, clear and not exaggerated, but accurate. Bass is very precise and clean, and overall sound is clean, no hissing. I really like them and Im really impressed. I would recommend them to anyone who is not looking to spend $200, as they only cost me half of that.
Also, something else that impressed me is that these babies dont skip.
There was one record that I had some issues with tracking, where I had to have antiskip at 3 and some other settings adjusted just so the Stantons could even play on it. However, with the Shure carts, even at basic settings and heavy back cueing, it doesnt skip.

Ive heard nothing but good things about Ortofons, they are standard when talking about top of the line carts, but they are a bit expensive.

Posted by benoitfan on Jul-07-2003 01:35:

Humm so which are the best for mixing trance/prog? no scratching. I think it's between the Nightclubs or Shure Whitelabels right?

Posted by bachatu on Jul-07-2003 03:33:

The Shure whitelabels are supposed to be for scratching, while having good sound quality. The M35x is a house/techno cart for mixing purposes (with good sound quality), not scratching.
Ive never tried the whitelabels, but Im thinking they would not have an increase of sound quality over the M35x, thats what Im thinking. Part of the reason of why its so expensive (whitelabel) is because its a concord cartridge (you connect it straight to the tonearm instead of attaching to headshell). Also, because of its super tracking abilities (for scratching, according to Shure).

Posted by djlemeir on Jul-07-2003 04:27:

gr8 review man i was planning on buying them carts.
did u ever do backspins wit them and if so did they skip?

Posted by ChavezHype on Jul-07-2003 04:58:

Posted by Tiger777 on Jul-07-2003 08:11:

just go for an ortofon needle, they're the best. You can choose between the concord :

69�

or the Nightclub

107�

I suggest you go for the nightclub if you have money left, it's a little better than the concorde, but... the concorde is very decent too.

Posted by TwiloThunder on Jul-07-2003 10:34:

Tiger777, those are both Concorde cartridges...

The silver one is the Ortofon Concorde Pro and the black/yellow is the Ortofon Concorde Nightclub.

If you want Orto's but don't have a huge budget get a pair of Concorde DJ S's. If money is no object, get a pair of Concorde Nightclub's. Most regard getting ones with a spherical (s) stylus as opposed to the more expensive elliptical (e) stylus.

Also if you do get a pair of ortofon's, play with the weights a bit until you find a setting that sounds ok to you. I have seen many people that say they run their carts with a weight setting @ 3 grams. Personally I run mine @ 1.8 grams and have never had it skip or produce sub standard sound. If you are in an environment where the tables are going to be stable and not likely to receive lots of vibrations then there's no need for a heavy tonearm

Posted by Tiger777 on Jul-07-2003 11:39:

ofcourse they both are ortofons

Posted by bachatu on Jul-07-2003 13:13:

quote:
Originally posted by ChavezHype
you sure about that? On shure's website they say the carts are for party/club use: just check it outHERE
For all its other models - its more specific..like mixing house/techno and turntablist/scratch etc.

It doesnt say so on their site, but ive seen somewhere (cant remember where) where if you look into the information about the cart it mentions its trackability when scratching.
However, looking at what they say here, the only thing different from this cart from the M35x is that its a concord (one single piece) and its designed to work with less tracking weight (2grams instead of 3)

Sound quality wise, seems like it would be same in comparison to M35x

quote:
Originally posted by djlemeir

gr8 review man i was planning on buying them carts.
did u ever do backspins wit them and if so did they skip?

Nah.. Im very picky about keeping my vinyls in good condition, i dont back spin and i havent done so with these. However, Im pretty shure they can handle it without a problem (i used to backspin here and there long ago with some Stanton ALIIs)

Posted by DJ Tranz on Jul-07-2003 19:05:

quote:
Originally posted by bachatu
The Shure whitelabels are supposed to be for scratching, while having good sound quality. The M35x is a house/techno cart for mixing purposes (with good sound quality), not scratching.
Ive never tried the whitelabels, but Im thinking they would not have an increase of sound quality over the M35x, thats what Im thinking. Part of the reason of why its so expensive (whitelabel) is because its a concord cartridge (you connect it straight to the tonearm instead of attaching to headshell). Also, because of its super tracking abilities (for scratching, according to Shure).

While you are on the right track about Shure Carts being some of the best in the world, you are Incorrect about WhiteLabels.
1. White Labels are for Mix/Spin (btw. it says so right on the packaging they come in.
2. Yes you can do minor scratching at low weight setting and you can do moderate scratching at higher weight setting.
3. The record wear is pretty much non existent.
4. they are not concords style, concords are two piece that is main piece and the styli, Shure White Labels are intergraded headshell carts and they are 3piece, main body as in the headshell, cartridge, and styli.
5. Shure WhiteLabel are much better at holding a record even at low weight setting than any of the Ortofons. When I got my pair of White Labels, I sold my pair of Ortofons Concords Pro DJ S(blues) 'cause I didn't need them anymore.
6. Replacement Styli are about 40% cheaper than ortofon replacements and you need to replace ortofon stylus quite often as I found out. With Shure WhiteLabels, it will be a LONG While b4 you'll need to replace the styli.
If you want an even better cart than WhiteLabels then try Shure V15VxMR

but they are $325.00 each!!!
if you want, I can get you Shure White Labels at $96.00 each plus shipping and any applicable taxes. Cheers...

Posted by bachatu on Jul-07-2003 19:51:

Glad you could clarify that the Whitelabel is not one piece. For some reason, i thought it was.
However, i do feel that some of the cost comes with the fact that it includes a headshell.
And as i did mention, low tracking weight required, so yes, in long run, vinyl may last longer.
I personally dont know anyone who has actually used and tested these carts. As we both know, manufacture can claim many things, but until they are tried and true (thats why ortofon are standard), we wont know. Though, Shure in general makes good quality products. Though I would like to see a long time Ortofon Nightclub cart user compare and review the Whitelabels

Personally though, if I was spending 100 per cart, I would go out and spend 15 bucks more, go with Ort nightclub S.

Posted by futurevision on Jul-09-2003 00:39:

i use whitelabels and thats for spining (no spinback or scratching never tired)
whitelabel sounds good for spinning and recording to my ears
but i dont think it was made for recording.

so would anyone know which is the best Elliptical styi or a replacement stylus for the whitelabel for recording??

Spherical styli = spinning
Elliptical styi = recording

there is a FScart package 890FS
its so cheap ?
but is it any good?

i own finalscratch but i dont think i want to buy that package just for recording or scratching.

Posted by Vlad on Jul-09-2003 00:55:

quote:
Originally posted by bachatu
Glad you could clarify that the Whitelabel is not one piece. For some reason, i thought it was.
However, i do feel that some of the cost comes with the fact that it includes a headshell.
And as i did mention, low tracking weight required, so yes, in long run, vinyl may last longer.
I personally dont know anyone who has actually used and tested these carts. As we both know, manufacture can claim many things, but until they are tried and true (thats why ortofon are standard), we wont know. Though, Shure in general makes good quality products. Though I would like to see a long time Ortofon Nightclub cart user compare and review the Whitelabels

Personally though, if I was spending 100 per cart, I would go out and spend 15 bucks more, go with Ort nightclub S.

Your gonna be spending a whole lot more when your gonna start to need replacing your styli. You will be on your 5th or 6th replacement, while Im still on my first styli with the whitelabels... enjoy the waste of money... oh and another thing, the ortofon replacement styli are more expensive than the whitelabels.

Posted by DaveSZ on Jul-09-2003 02:22:

How are the whitelabels with backcueing?

Posted by bachatu on Jul-09-2003 02:24:

Why would it be a waste? And i didnt mention I did spend that amount, nor that I would pay that amount for carts, as I currently have the M35x. However, if i was to go that route and spend big money and 'go all out'... I would go with industry standard quality.

Ive never heard an Ortofon owner tell me they wasted their money. Same reason that someone who uses Technics, wont tell you they wasted their money, including me.
Just as you can compare a vestax and say it has more torque, more features, etc.... its better on paper, its that simple... still so many ppl on a daily basis continue to buy what is industry standard, Technics 1200.

Obviously, your in a position where you have purchased the shure whitelabel, and you are defending your purchase, as anyone else would. And of course, you may be more than satisfied with your purchase, as long as you are, thats all that matters.

Posted by Steven Hays on Jul-09-2003 04:03:

I would like to say that I am a proud owner of Shure M44-7's and I just replaced my 2nd set after about 8 months of using them. The sound quality is mind-blowing. And I will admit, the only reason, well not only, but main reason I did buy these was that the price was almost half that of ortofon's. I have never had the pleasure to know what ortofon's are all about, so I will not argue that they are less superior than my shure's. I will assume the Whitelabels are better than M44-7's, only because why would shure make a lesser quality product.

Ricky has a good point about the industry standard deal. Ortofon's are exactly like technics, whoever has them, bought them from the hype, thats how we mostly buy everything. I bought the shure's cause the chick at guitar center showed me stats on both, and the shure's were better. Yes, the shure's were better. So I bought em' and I've been happy everyday that I made a great investment.

peace.

Steve

Posted by ChavezHype on Jul-09-2003 04:21:

actually shure m44-7's are the "industry standard" scratching cart. LoL looks like you did end up buying industry standards after all.
As, what's also known, generally some type of ortofon concorde cart (usually a nightclub) is the industry standard for clubs. Which is exactly the cart that the whitelabels are competing with. The sound quality should be the main issue, seeing as how on ortofon nightclubs have undisputable great sound quality, however its pretty much a fact that with shures the replacement styli is cheaper and ortofon wears quicker. Seeing as how I wouldnt be able to make a say in sound quality on the whitelabels or nightclubs - other than from what is said about them by reviews and responses. I've heard m44-7's and they're definately nice sounding - regardless of what u play, I would assume that the whitelabels would have quality sound as well.
I think what being labelled "industry standard" makes a product that much easier to buy, because after all, if its an industry standard then you know its quality - it really can't be bad generally, it is what the industry (most) uses after all.
Stats won't come in handy when you may get equipment thats unreliable and/or expensive to maintain. Shure carts however have been around for quite some time so no worries on unreliability generally.