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-- Normalizing on Soundforge....-

Normalizing on Soundforge....-

So I finally get my computer to record from Soundforge noise free and w/o any problems.....YAAAAAAAAAY!!!!

Anyways, I saved the file as .wav format .....but before i start to break the .wav into its individual tracks ....I've heard its good to normalize the file. What exactly will normalizing do to my file? Is it mandatory to do?.....Help

Laterz
Shook

Yes normalize the whole thing b4 u cut it up.

Normalizing is setting the mean volume or max volume by average (depending which normaliz option you choose) of a sound file. It's good to do to keep sounds levels under the maximum which would cause distortion. It also put the volume at a good level so that u don't have to jack your stereo to hear it. Very good idea to do, mandatory is too strong a word, b/c it's up to you as to wheather or not you do it.

Can anyone explain how to go about normalizing with Sound Forge?

I have recently bought an Allen & Heath Xone 464 which is a huge step from my old mixer. The thing is that recording from the RCA out jack is very quiet, and it records with the mids and highs sounding different recorded then when playing through my stereo. It records at such a low volume that the bars are hard to see on Soundforge once i have my set together. I do some cut and paste and need to be able to adjust volumes high enough to do so.

But when i increase volume or normalize anything, i just can't seem to put it on the right setting. I always increase it way to much, and can never seem to put it at the right db.

How do i go about figuring out the normalize or volume settings?
Is there a way i can set the volume higher through soundforge before i start recording?

quote:

Originally posted by B_K Can anyone explain how to go about normalizing with Sound Forge? I have recently bought an Allen & Heath Xone 464 which is a huge step from my old mixer. The thing is that recording from the RCA out jack is very quiet, and it records with the mids and highs sounding different recorded then when playing through my stereo. It records at such a low volume that the bars are hard to see on Soundforge once i have my set together. I do some cut and paste and need to be able to adjust volumes high enough to do so. But when i increase volume or normalize anything, i just can't seem to put it on the right setting. I always increase it way to much, and can never seem to put it at the right db. How do i go about figuring out the normalize or volume settings? Is there a way i can set the volume higher through soundforge before i start recording?

B_K don't worry about making it louder before it goes into Soundforge, it's the end result that you need to focus on. Basically make sure you have all your gains on your mixer set to 12 O'Clock and also the master volume @ 12. It may sound quiet now but that's where normalizing comes into play. Once you have finished recording whatever record or set you wish to do, highlight the whole audio track then normalize it.

In the normalize window (Process->Normalize) set the "Normalize Using:" to Peak Level. Then below that make sure the "Normalize to" is set to 0.00dB (basically so that the slider is up the very top of the bar). Hit ok then it should normalize the audio track. Once that is finished play it back. It should sound a lot louder now and hopefully be the right level that you desire.

When using the record out (RCA on the Xone), the master level on your mixer doesn't affect it. Record out is pre master fader, always at nominal level.

First of all you need to set your recording levels right in your software. Either the software can adjust the recording levels itself, otherwise you'll have to go through the windows mixer (little speaker in the system tray, options > recording properties).

Adjust it that way that at the loudest parts of your music you get close to 0 dB (in the software, not the 0 db on your mixer), without ever reaching that value (0 dB and over means clipping in the digital domain). A peak value of -1 dB is great (if you know what you are doing, if you're not so sure you'll keep your levels constant through the mix, get a little more headroom).

Then do whatever you want to do in your audio editor. Normalizing should always come as the last step (except if you will reduce bitdepth, then dithering is the last step). A good value for peak normalizing is between -0.5 and -0.1 dB (0.0 dB is still considered to be an error in many cdplayers, and especially in cd pressing plants, so it's better to stick with a universal method).

Normalizing should be seen as a method to get your peak levels as hot as possible without having distortion, NOT as a remedy for curing files with too low recording levels! If you normalize such files, the noise will be amplified too.
So look that your recording is as hot as possible, then you can apply normalizing.

Thnx for all the help guys. The thing is that on the XONE 464, there isn't a record out, its simply an rca out, and adjusting the master changes the recording volume. I have tried other outputs, that being only one other available to my knowledge, and thats the local monitor output. This output has a separate master volume control, but for some reason doesn't produce a good quality sound for recording, from my experience anyways.

I think i should be recording from the monitor output cause i know i shouldn't record from anything where it isn't pre-master. The bad recording sound might come from the fact that i'm using rca to 1/4" converters so that it can plug into my soundcard via rca inputs.
Also, the slightly poorer recording sound could probably be from the fact the my mixer is designed for a professional studio with professional equipment, not a home computer. oh well.

In terms of adjusting the recording volume on the software, i don't think that its possible to do that in soundforge before recording.
I also am running windows 2000 ME, which doesn't have a windows mixer or a recording option in the system tray.

I'm trying the normalize thing now, i'll see what happens with that

here's a good article on mastering/normalizing on the reason website.

LINK

BUT before you start normalizing, as DJ Thy said, it is ESSENTIAL that the level you record at is as hot as possible (without clipping) before you start normalizing. Normalizing is the last step in the production process and should never be used to correct recording levels. Reason being, if you record digitally at too low a level and then boost the whole thing, you will either get a lot of noise, or a lot of nothingness. say for example you record at -20dB, and then normalize the whole wave to 0dB...that 20 dB boost is coming from nowhere. what you are doing then is only raising the noise floor in which you recorded from, and boosting the volume of everything. not a very good technique.

to reiterate again, to record properly, check your levels at all the stages (but most importantly the levels in your computer as that is what you are recording onto). for example, if you are recording with soundforge, (under special, transport, reocord or just ctrl+r) you can see the levels you are recording at. then either boost the line-in from your soundcard, or the line-out from your mixer. what you should look for is the loudest passage of your mix (say right after the buildup when everything hits again) and make SURE that it doesn't go red. digital distortion (aka saturation) is irreversible and is not something you want.

then to master properly, read the article i linked above.

one last thing to B_K, you don't want to record from the monitor out, i suspect it should be of lower quality then the master out. ideally there should be a record out, but since you say there isn't, go for the master out. monitor out is for that exactly, just for monitoring. and for adjusting line-in levels, try go control panel and then sound, there should be a simple windows mixer in there somewhere. ur soundcard should also have one.

quote:

Originally posted by B_K Thnx for all the help guys. The thing is that on the XONE 464, there isn't a record out, its simply an rca out, and adjusting the master changes the recording volume.

Whoops, my mistake, but I swear I have seen a 464 with record out already (must be model 1).

Anyway it depends on what soundcard you have. Do you have a consumer soundcard (a la sounblaster/audigy)? Then it's best to use the RCA out of mix 2 (works on consumer level, and has independent control). If you have a pro card (like Midiman, Motu, RME, etc...), it's best to use the XLR outs (pro level). The reason is that on consumer cards, if you present a pro level, it might already distort at the input of the card (in theory it shouldn't happen, but sadly it sometimes does).

Well, i'ver tried everything, but when i record outta my rca output, the volume bars in soundforge only go half way up. I need to almost double my recording volume, and all my software and windows volume controls are at max.

Normalizing works, but just makes things louder, not better.

What soundcard you using?

I tried my Xone:62 on two kind of cards (pro levels and consumer level). When I use the record out (would be the same level as if you would set master out 2 full open) into the line in of the consumer card, the line in slider (record) is about halfway to get an adequate level.

Ya, i'm using a consumer card (Audigy 2), and even with my line in slider all the way up, the recording volume is half of what it should be. I used to record with my old Numark, with all the same settings and software/equipment, and it worked great.

Hmm..

Now I have a soundfile....which i recorded through the radio and its dB level after recording(w/o normalizing) is approx -5.5 at a PEAK. I went into the Normalizing option ...

but before i normalized the recording, I previewed what it would sound like. When listening, it kinda sounded distorted,the bass was kinda scratchy, and it was peaking very close to 0dB. When i listen to the recording prior to normalizing its sounds clear, loud, and pretty much what i want. Is normalizing necessary? Will i have problems w/ anything if i dont do it?

Holla

Shook

Normalizing isn't really obligatory, it just makes sure you have the maximum possible levels.

Though the problem you describe shouldn't happen. Normalizing just should make things louder, not distorted, unless you messed up with the levels (or chose the wrong normalize method, choose peak normalizing, not RMS).

IMO if you've recorded a mix at a hot level (e.g. -1dB peak) normalizing won't really give you anything extra. And remember, the normalization process isn't perfect!

Personally, I much prefer to use a limiter to get a little bit extra effective volume, and you can set the output gain to -0.1dB anyway.

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