0 Degrees Kelvin ... The Absolute Zero

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Posted by oDrori on Jul-11-2003 21:34:

0 Degrees Kelvin ... The Absolute Zero

Hi there... I've been wondering...

How comes there are so many theories and movies discussing the result of reaching or surpassing the speed of light (The greatest speed possible according to Modern Physics), such as Hyper-Speed travelling, time-travel, a forming of a black hole and so on, while I have yet to hear theories about what happens when a matterial reaches 0 degrees Kelvin, the lowest temperature possible, where, theoretically, a substance has no heat energy whatsoever and it's particles (the electrons and atomic nuklueses-sp?) do not move at all?
Anyone care to share? I'd love to read theories about it and also hear your own suggestions ... One possibility that pops is that a nuclear procedure might occur, and the matterial will lose mass in order to gain more energy and compensate for the loss... Dunno, just pondering

Your thoughts appreciated, thanks in advance

Posted by joeh on Jul-11-2003 21:43:

Re: 0 Degrees Kelvin ... The Absolute Zero

quote:
Originally posted by oDrori
Hi there... I've been wondering...

How comes there are so many theories and movies discussing the result of reaching or surpassing the speed of light (The greatest speed possible according to Modern Physics), such us Hyper-Speed travelling, time-travel, a forming of a black hole and so on, while I have yet to hear theories about what happens when a matterial reaches 0 degrees Kelvin, the lowest temperature possible, where, theoretically, a substance has no heat energy whatsoever and it's particles (the electrons and atomic nuklueses-sp?) do not move at all?
Anyone care to share? I'd love to read theories about it and also hear your own suggestions ... One possibility that pops is that a nuclear procedure might occur, and the matterial will lose mass in order to gain more energy and compensate for the loss... Dunno, just pondering

Your thoughts appreciated, thanks in advance

Hmmm, interesting. I really have no idea what might happen

But talking of breaking the speed of light - check this email I got:

<<<<
From: [email protected]
To: Various emails on a spam list
Subject: Need Dimensional Warp Generator

We need a vendor who can offer immediate supply.
I'm offering $5,000 US dollars just for referring a vender which is
(Actually RELIABLE in providing the below equipment) Contact details
of vendor required, including name and phone #. If they turn out to be
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>>>>>

Posted by occrider on Jul-11-2003 22:02:

http://cryowwwebber.gsfc.nasa.gov/i...l#absolute_zero

Never really studied many theories regarding absolute zero.

Posted by oDrori on Jul-11-2003 22:20:

quote:
Originally posted by joeh152
Hmmm, interesting. I really have no idea what might happen

But talking of breaking the speed of light - check this email I got:

<<<<
From: [email protected]
To: Various emails on a spam list
Subject: Need Dimensional Warp Generator

We need a vendor who can offer immediate supply.
I'm offering $5,000 US dollars just for referring a vender which is
(Actually RELIABLE in providing the below equipment) Contact details
of vendor required, including name and phone #. If they turn out to be
reliable in supplying the below equipment I'll immediately pay you
$5,000. We prefer to work with vendor in the Boston/New York area.
>>>>>

LOL Good luck with that to them...

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
http://cryowwwebber.gsfc.nasa.gov/i...l#absolute_zero

Never really studied many theories regarding absolute zero.

Thanks for the link, I think I knew most of what was written in there, except that negative thing... Still no theory though (i'm a sci-fi freak ).

Also, since pressure changes have the ability to change a material's melting and boiling temperatures, any idea as to whether or not it can alter it's Absolute Zero temperature?

Edit: the link on that page is gold Details on negative absolute temperature :P

Posted by DJ Mikey Mike on Jul-11-2003 22:34:

Re: 0 Degrees Kelvin ... The Absolute Zero

quote:
Originally posted by oDrori
Hi there... I've been wondering...

How comes there are so many theories and movies discussing the result of reaching or surpassing the speed of light (The greatest speed possible according to Modern Physics), such us Hyper-Speed travelling, time-travel, a forming of a black hole and so on, while I have yet to hear theories about what happens when a matterial reaches 0 degrees Kelvin, the lowest temperature possible, where, theoretically, a substance has no heat energy whatsoever and it's particles (the electrons and atomic nuklueses-sp?) do not move at all?
Anyone care to share? I'd love to read theories about it and also hear your own suggestions ... One possibility that pops is that a nuclear procedure might occur, and the matterial will lose mass in order to gain more energy and compensate for the loss... Dunno, just pondering

Your thoughts appreciated, thanks in advance

This is an interesting topic yes.. I cba to give my thoughts rite now tho, but in one of the James Bond films they make reference to an object whose temp is less than 0k (obv impossible) but was just pointing out that its not just all speed of light and black holes and time travel that gets used in films

Posted by naeblis on Jul-11-2003 22:34:

IF you cooled it to absolute zero. It would disappear, basically disinegrate. Because there would be no force holding whatever it is that you coooled together. I think that is how it works.

Posted by o0moonman0o on Jul-11-2003 23:30:

u can never cool anything to absolute zero cuz when u cool it u are still givin it a very very small amount of energy.
0 k only exist theoretically, but it is immpossible to attain in reality (at least from wat we know currently)

Posted by U121 on Jul-11-2003 23:45:

well, i have my theory, and its based on the assumption that it is impossible to get colder than 0 degrees kelvin.

"if you are able to get an atom of, say, hydrogen to drop below zero kelvin, considering that it would be impossible to drop below that point, it would go to the other end of the scale which is (infinite)degrees kelvin, considering that this would happen in aninfinite speed, the atom would cook, and at infinite speed turn into hydrogen gas. now, something expanding at infinite speed would devour the entire universe in no time, so we better not try to find out."

and NO i did not copy that off of some place on the net, it is entirely (c) ME =P

Posted by Vivid Boy on Jul-11-2003 23:50:

my theory is that itll get cold and microscopic penguins will grow

Posted by joeh on Jul-11-2003 23:53:

quote:
Originally posted by Vivid Boy
my theory is that itll get cold and microscopic penguins will grow

Most valid theory yet .

Posted by whiskers on Jul-12-2003 00:41:

here we go. since at 0K every particles stops moving, it's impossible to measure whether you've reached 0K or not, although scientists have come EXTREMELY close (how the hell do you do it???)

my theory is that when you cool stuff down to 0K it creates an Einstein-Rosen bridge and you could warptravel through time and even space.

Posted by oDrori on Jul-12-2003 00:45:

quote:
Originally posted by Vivid Boy
my theory is that itll get cold and microscopic penguins will grow

Amen to that. That, and your sig

quote:
Originally posted by Xo|oX
"if you are able to get an atom of, say, hydrogen to drop below zero kelvin, considering that it would be impossible to drop below that point, it would go to the other end of the scale which is (infinite)degrees kelvin, considering that this would happen in aninfinite speed, the atom would cook, and at infinite speed turn into hydrogen gas. now, something expanding at infinite speed would devour the entire universe in no time, so we better not try to find out."

Just like creating a black hole, your victory will be short lived
Regarding reaching infinite temperature, read the first link in the page provided by Occrider... It's quite interesting and pretty easy to understand.

quote:
Originally posted by o0moonman0o
u can never cool anything to absolute zero cuz when u cool it u are still givin it a very very small amount of energy.
0 k only exist theoretically, but it is immpossible to attain in reality (at least from wat we know currently)

That's why I found it so interesting that one theoretical impossibility (Reaching the speed of light) gets all the attention while the other one (Reachin 0 degrees Kelvin) gets nearly none.

Posted by Misty Kitty on Jul-12-2003 00:54:

aint sumone passed the speed of light already???

(sorry if this was posted above... too tired to read all posts, but too awake n in touch with dc to go to bed, fakk i need a shag)

Posted by whiskers on Jul-12-2003 01:28:

quote:
Originally posted by Misty Kitty
aint sumone passed the speed of light already???

only on star trek, afaik.

we, regular humans, haven't been able to reach c/2

Posted by _-MIl0 on Jul-12-2003 02:26:

if you cooled everything down to absolute zero you would get canada

hehe just kiding but im here on vacation and it was FREEZING today

Posted by o0moonman0o on Jul-12-2003 04:18:

quote:
Originally posted by oDrori
That's why I found it so interesting that one theoretical impossibility (Reaching the speed of light) gets all the attention while the other one (Reachin 0 degrees Kelvin) gets nearly none.

imo reachin the speed of light is not that important and should not get as much attention or hype it's gettin.
If we wanna reach the speed of light we obviously wanna go faster than it, so in the end theres more point in tryin to figure out how to travel faster than light, but instead we should use our time to figure out something that allows us to go from point a to point b faster than speed of light without tryin to find a way to reach speed of light... and thats when WARP comes into this little discussion... :P as far as I know, warping is basically compressin the dimension or "space" infront of an object, makin the dimension thinner, hence makin the distances shorter. As the object passes through a the specific segment of "space" the "space" behind the object decompress. So I think that we should dump more resources into researchin warp devices instead of smashin our heads together to think of a way of reachin the speed of light when in the end we'll use warp instead. but I think the most important thing we should consider is how to power these devices..

o yeah, for those still wonderin about passing speed of light we can never reach/pass it cuz when u hit speed of light ur mass becomes infinite, as a result it would take infinite amount of force to move the object cuz force = mass * acceleration.

Posted by whiskers on Jul-12-2003 04:39:

not only your mass becomes infinite but time actually stops when you reach the speed of light... that's one of the perks of the electron cloud...

Posted by _-MIl0 on Jul-12-2003 05:43:

Allright well i my as well give something worth while here.

allright now first thing you have to realize that acording to
E=MC2 energy is equal to mass constante from this you can also bring the conclusion that T=VC2 i.e. that Time is equal to Velocity constantly. ( you get this fromt he fact that the universe is constantly exspanding and at a constant rate which i will get to later on. That and the fact that there is no actual exsistance of time is is just a measurement made by man to count the ageing of organisms. Since it dosent exsist time cant be moved forword or backwords in becouse it simply isint there. But it is possible that if everything else is in motion and one individual thing is completly still (down to the electrons) i.e. -257 degs celcious you would be still in time well everything else would be moveing through time. So therefore you would be ageing at a different speed then the outside world. So if you were this object that was complelty frozen then you would be in suspended animation and could live forever prutty much becouse all other things are under the effects of motion well you arent. Which brings us to the plot which is that if this were to happen people could be put into suspended animation.

anyways im sure thats all very confusing and im not even sure if i understood it myself, hope you enjoy
peace

Posted by Z1D on Jul-12-2003 06:01:

jason/physe, this thread has your name written all over it

Posted by oDrori on Jul-12-2003 12:26:

quote:
Originally posted by Misty Kitty
aint sumone passed the speed of light already???

Nope, we've managed to surpass the speed of sound... Which is less than 1200 KM/h or less... Speed of light in vacuum (IE outer space) is approximately 300,000 KM/second if I'm not wrong...

Go get a shag

quote:
Originally posted by o0moonman0o
imo reachin the speed of light is not that important and should not get as much attention or hype it's gettin.
If we wanna reach the speed of light we obviously wanna go faster than it, so in the end theres more point in tryin to figure out how to travel faster than light, but instead we should use our time to figure out something that allows us to go from point a to point b faster than speed of light without tryin to find a way to reach speed of light... and thats when WARP comes into this little discussion... :P as far as I know, warping is basically compressin the dimension or "space" infront of an object, makin the dimension thinner, hence makin the distances shorter. As the object passes through a the specific segment of "space" the "space" behind the object decompress. So I think that we should dump more resources into researchin warp devices instead of smashin our heads together to think of a way of reachin the speed of light when in the end we'll use warp instead. but I think the most important thing we should consider is how to power these devices..

Researches on reaching and on surpassing lightspeed are quite parallel methinks, whether by acceleration or by warp...

quote:
Originally posted by o0moonman0o
o yeah, for those still wonderin about passing speed of light we can never reach/pass it cuz when u hit speed of light ur mass becomes infinite, as a result it would take infinite amount of force to move the object cuz force = mass * acceleration.

Rules are made to be broken... Just like modern physics broke a few of the classic physics rules (Mass isn't constant, for example). a third generation of physics rules might break the current's rules

quote:
Originally posted by DJ Mil0
Allright well i my as well give something worth while here.

allright now first thing you have to realize that acording to
E=MC2 energy is equal to mass constante from this you can also bring the conclusion that T=VC2 i.e. that Time is equal to Velocity constantly. ( you get this fromt he fact that the universe is constantly exspanding and at a constant rate which i will get to later on. That and the fact that there is no actual exsistance of time is is just a measurement made by man to count the ageing of organisms. Since it dosent exsist time cant be moved forword or backwords in becouse it simply isint there. But it is possible that if everything else is in motion and one individual thing is completly still (down to the electrons) i.e. -257 degs celcious you would be still in time well everything else would be moveing through time. So therefore you would be ageing at a different speed then the outside world. So if you were this object that was complelty frozen then you would be in suspended animation and could live forever prutty much becouse all other things are under the effects of motion well you arent. Which brings us to the plot which is that if this were to happen people could be put into suspended animation.

anyways im sure thats all very confusing and im not even sure if i understood it myself, hope you enjoy
peace

Just a small correction: It's -273.15 Celcius

I agree that biologically, time would stop for that body (Assuming each and every molecule in his body is @ 0 degrees Kelvin), I guess that's how they plan on inventing Cryogenic technology...

Posted by DJPrototypeX on Jul-12-2003 12:45:

i know my chemisrty teacher had a great theory to what happens, but 2yrs later, i cant remember

Posted by Noisician on Jul-12-2003 15:30:

if tachyons are ever proven to exist, i'd just love to see the expression on scientists' faces when all of them are like... WTF??!??1?1!

Posted by THE_Chris on Jul-12-2003 15:42:

As far as I know you CANNOT reach absolute zero.

Quantum Mechanics states that the entire system would collapse into a Giant Matter Wave. If this happened in full, the uncertainty principle would be violated. Hence, it cannot happen.

They've cooled things to billionths of a degree above absolute zero by confining the particles inbetween various laser beams to 'squeeze' them together and effectivly slow their motion - decreasing their energy and thus lowering the temperature. You get all sorts of weird effects at those temperatures. Bose Einstein Condensation, particles falling out of the system, quantum tunnelling etc.

Its all pretty simple really.

Posted by _-MIl0 on Jul-12-2003 15:46:

quote:
Originally posted by oDrori

Just a small correction: It's -273.15 Celcius

opps sorry my bad

Posted by Nadi on Jul-12-2003 18:07:

1) Reaching/passing the speed of light has had more stuff written about it/movies made because it might be really cool, at absolute zero everything stops(or at least thats what everyone thinks) you cant make a sweet movie about that.

2) I dont think that it is possible to reach absolute zero unless you can measure it within the context of something that doesnt allow any heat to enter it, as the princible of thermal equilibrium would make it impossible.

However, I do think that at some point the temperture will be absolutly equal throughout the whole universe. At this point a number of things might happen. The most likely is that work would no longer be possible. However it might just mean everything stays the same, but the temperture is more or less equal everywhere(small changes for work you or the things around you do.)

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