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-- TT vs CD decks...loudness and clarity?

TT vs CD decks...loudness and clarity?

Why is it that my cd decks sound output is generally louder, and more clear than my MKII? Maybe i didn't hook it up right, or maybe that's just the way it is.

Is your tt grounded? Hooked up to the Phone channel and not the line channel? Did you try to plug your tt into another channel? Are you mids, highs, lows standing in the same position? Gains?

The sound of digital sources is always much better than analog sources. If there is a difference between the volume of CD's and Vinyls, that's because you need a preamp before you can use the signal of a turntable. On more cheaper mixers, this preamp isn't that good and there is a difference between the volume of CD's(without preamping) and turntable (with preamp)

cd sound quality isnt necessarily always better. Realistically, vinyl has better greater bit depth, because its not compressed. CD is compressed to 16bit.
I believe that greater quality sound can be reached through a turntable, using the right equipment. There are special audiophile turntables and needles that they sell, very expensive, but they are supposed to have great sound quality.
Poor equipment like mixer (or preamp) and carts and styli will strongly affect the sound quality of vinyl.

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Originally posted by bachatu cd sound quality isnt necessarily always better. Realistically, vinyl has better greater bit depth, because its not compressed. CD is compressed to 16bit. I believe that greater quality sound can be reached through a turntable, using the right equipment. There are special audiophile turntables and needles that they sell, very expensive, but they are supposed to have great sound quality. Poor equipment like mixer (or preamp) and carts and styli will strongly affect the sound quality of vinyl.

All true. In this situation I would say that the 2 major reasons the CDs sound better is that your preamp is probably shitty (being incorperated into a cheap to midrange DJ mixer where things like kill switches sell mixers, not good preamps) and also the stylus (be sure to at least have an elliptical if you are want better quality, though the audiophile stylii these days use a different shape.

I don't actually agree with what you're saying about vinyl quality. CD audio is digital, that means that it either sounds 100% perfect or you hear nothing. 1 second is divided in 48000 frames (that's quite alot). With vinyl that is analog, you ALWAYS have skew caused by dust or humidity

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Originally posted by Tiger777 I don't actually agree with what you're saying about vinyl quality. CD audio is digital, that means that it either sounds 100% perfect or you hear nothing. 1 second is divided in 48000 frames (that's quite alot). With vinyl that is analog, you ALWAYS have skew caused by dust or humidity

First let me say I like to spin vinyl, secondly in the long CDs sound better.

But you are kind of wrong. The fact that it is a digital REPRESENTATION of an analog signal, so by definition the sound is not the EXACT same as the sound waves moving in the air. Wheather or not it is close enough that one cannot tell the difference is another matter. (I am of the opinion that a good CD played on a good CD player, like my Denon oversamples the signal up to 20 bits, will sound essentially "perfect" and has the advantage sounding great afer a long time and many plays).

I would say that in my modest collection of (trance) vinyl that no one of my records is in good enough condition to confuse it with a CD of that same song (somewhere in the tracks on wax, that I have, there will be a click/pop/hiss that will not sound perfect). But that does not mean all records sound like that. My father, not a crazy audiophile type but still has a TT for his records he bought back in the day, has a record that is probably about 30 years old and sounds GREAT no pops/clicks or surface noise.

In the end, for my money I think that CDs sound better but that does no mean that everyone talking about the CD sample rates is wrong.

PS - I would say that these days 24-bit 94 kHz recordings are considered VERY good, aka "audiophile" level, current CDs use 16-bit 44 kHz (the Super Audio CDs or SACDs or "Music DVDs" or "Souround Sound 5.1 CDs") run at the 24-bit 94 kHz.


Whaaaa. I am done. I do not consider myself an expert but a well informed enjoyer of music. I welcome corrections to my ramblings.

Ya, Sound as we hear it, is actually an analog signal, but, in the wires that go to your speakers, the sound is a digital signal. In the wire to your speaker, 1 wave is represented by a change from a negative to a positive voltage. (I'm not gonna explain entirely here how a speaker works... too tired (and maybe also a little lazy ) for that. When you play your record the first time, the accuracy of how the artist meant it is 99.999999% (the -0.000001% is caused by environamental differences). But, That accuracy decreases the more you play your record 'cuz of the simple reason, no matter how good your needle is, the record wears out...

Uhh, you seem to forget that most of the electronic music is produced... thats right, electronically or digitally on PCs, if you wish... So saying that vinyl is cool because its analog is not really valid in case of electronic music.

thanks for th einput, even though I don't understand a word of it. I have the Denon dx400 mixer, which I thought was pretty decent. I don't know if it's 'pre-amp' or whatever is causing the problem. It just seems that the cd sound quality is noticably better, and louder in almost every case. When I beatmatch, I have to turn the mid and low eqs up a few notches just so it's loud and clear enough to beatmatch. Maybe I'm not really explaining this too well.

All CD players have preamps built in to output line-level signals, so different brands and models may have higher output that may affect volume on your mix. Most turntables have phono-level outputs (some have line-level or digital also), which means you need a mixer with a phono to line preamp to give proper signal levels. So you have 2 variables right there. Don't forget that different phono cartriges have different output levels too - Ortofons have higher output than Stanton 500's for instance.

I also have a Denon mixer - the X800, but I use it in pure digital form, all inputs are digital (I use Denon digital turntables). I use the Shure 44-7 needles, which are super high output - levels are about level between phono & CD.

A couple things:

1. For almost everybody the signal on their speaker wires is actually analog (unless you have digital speakers, I no next to nothing about them). What happens is that most CD players have line level output (which has been said before), this is an analog signal that is then amplified by the amp (or reciever, or the amp in your speakers if they are active) this boosted signal is sent to your speakers which moves the air. However, it is not uncommon for good CD players to have a digital (or optical) output in which case the signal remains digital until it is decoded by the amp/reciever or an external decoder, but once it heads from the amp to the speakers is that it is analog again.

2. It is true that a lot of EDM is made completely digitally. In this case using the analog signal of vinyl is probably changing the sound. But an argument could be made that most producers with good gear are producing at 24-bit 96kHz and everything is being downsampled to CD bit rates and sample rates and maybe because the vinyl is analog and not downsampling it is actually closer to the original source. Now I am kind of playing the devels advocate here because I am not sure I could claim to tell the difference.

3. About the needle output. The Shures do have a very high output but one very important thing that the phono pre-amp does is not only boost the signal to about line level, it also "corrects" the output. The signal on a record is tweaked so that the bass is a lot lower (among other things, I am not positive) this lets them produce bass without the needle jumping from groove because the changes would be so great. So the signal is modified according to an RIAA standard (back then they had time to make standards because they were not suing everyone) and what the pre-amp does is that it corrects the signal back to the original (in theory at least).

its simple... vinyls sound great on good sound systems and in big places... im talking about CLUB quality systems.so when you have a 'home' speakers or some cheap club speakers, the vinyl is just not going to sound right .. esp since its not in a big place(vinyl sound has more depth then CD's). dont get me wrong, cd's do have clear sound but it just doesnt give that extra "umph" like vinyl does when you're in a big place or a club.

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Originally posted by DJ A.i its simple... vinyls sound great on good sound systems and in big places... im talking about CLUB quality systems.so when you have a 'home' speakers or some cheap club speakers, the vinyl is just not going to sound right .. esp since its not in a big place(vinyl sound has more depth then CD's). dont get me wrong, cd's do have clear sound but it just doesnt give that extra "umph" like vinyl does when you're in a big place or a club.

very good point...on louder systems or even just good systems (meaning speakers that don't color the signal), it is easier to notice the difference between vinyl and cds....and also cd quality music and mp3s.

at home it does seem that cds play louder, it is a cleaner signal, but what it lacks is depth and warmth, which aren't as readily apparent.

think ppl have already said this, but oh well.

to auujay: Dvd is 24/96 i believe, and SACD is a totally different medium, it samples at a ridiculously high rate but only at one bit.

Isn't it the case that tracks written to CD are mastered harder than vinyl recordings - i.e. they are limited more heavily to bring up the average perceived volume? That is why CDs frequently sound louder than vinyl, even though the peak signal level may be the same.

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