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Educational system

I would like to start a debate of exams in england...so i am sorry if i segregate people from other countries. Obviosuly every country is different in their schooling system, but in england, we take a-levels and GCSE's.

You can probably guess what is coming. When people do well in our exams, we get critised for the exams being too easy, when there is not enough good results from exams, then people critise our teachers. Now i am training to be a teacher (primary) in september, so it is somethng i like to get interest in from other people.
Girls are averaging better results than boys. So boys are generally getting slammed for worse results than girls, and also we are a nation that is apparently achieving too higher standards.

My opinion on this matter is that they like to complain about anything and everything. Why not congradulate the teachers and the pupils who work damn hard to achieve what they can, i know i worked hard to achieve a B, C and a E. Now i drop into the %95 pass rate, but my exams results are not exactly brilliant.

It hurts that hard work for two years is ended with people saying my results, which are not great, are because the exams are "too" easy.

Are other countries like that?

Anyway, do what you people do best, and debate!!

Are the a-levels and GCSEs graded on a curved point system? If so, I don't really see a problem. In the case that the exam is really easy, people taking the exam will still be seperated from other test takers since only the highest scores will be credited with achieving the highest standards.

well, whatever condition youre state of education is in, its probably much better than what we have here in california, the teachers dont teach, the schools are shit, we have too many damn rules, and we dont get enough funding.

A level results in the UK have improved every year since 1981? its something like that early 80s anyway, how realistic is that?, not very
If the grade boundaries are not being lowered, which has been the main tactic with gcse's, the marks are being scaled so that more achieve the grade boundaries......or they just make papers easier as I found with some of my AS levels which I took in Jan/June. I got pretty much all past papers for my subjects and I can say that I found the ones I actually took easier on the whole, it might just be a mental thing or the fact that I wasnt pissing about with friends when I did my real ones but I dunno, I still think they were easier, a bit.

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Originally posted by fuct4less well, whatever condition youre state of education is in, its probably much better than what we have here in california, the teachers dont teach, the schools are shit, we have too many damn rules, and we dont get enough funding.

sad, we went from being the top few in the early 90s, down to 3rd? to last. you forgot to blame the students too, some just dont care, and are also at fault.

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Originally posted by rizen some just dont care

(that would be me...)

but really, the school system sucks ass here, and i dont think that the students are really at fault. its not like we (the students) are the ones who cut the funding, we are not the ones who (poorly) sanitize the bathrooms, we are not the ones assigning the homework, etc...

grading is basicly an subjective measuremnet of comparision.
i find the best way to elevate bickering over whether a test was too hard or two easy is to compare yourself and your postition to that of everyone else and use the percentile method. no matter what an exam's average is or its distribution if you relate yourself to others you can see where you stand... ie "scored better then 92% precent of those who took the exam" or scored better then 56% of those who took the exam" tells more then an arbitrary A or C on an exam.

I read an article in this month's Harpers about how our school system was designed in Prussia as a way to control the lower classes. Not sure if I agree with the article, but it's a good read. (I can't link it, but buy the magazine or even read it in the bookstore.

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Originally posted by Izzy grading is basicly an subjective measuremnet of comparision. i find the best way to elevate bickering over whether a test was too hard or two easy is to compare yourself and your postition to that of everyone else and use the percentile method. no matter what an exam's average is or its distribution if you relate yourself to others you can see where you stand... ie "scored better then 92% precent of those who took the exam" or scored better then 56% of those who took the exam" tells more then an arbitrary A or C on an exam.

I wouldn't quite agree on that one. For example, take a group of people and give them two different exams on the same subject. Let's say the first one is quite easier than the second. Chances are pretty big that you'll score the same percentile score in both exams. Still, that doesn't say how good you solved the test. In the first case, you might have gotten 80% of the answers right, while in other case, you might have gotten only 20% of them right. I agree it's good to have the relative score mentioned, but some arbitrary measure should also be required.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 I wouldn't quite agree on that one. For example, take a group of people and give them two different exams on the same subject. Let's say the first one is quite easier than the second. Chances are pretty big that you'll score the same percentile score in both exams. Still, that doesn't say how good you solved the test. In the first case, you might have gotten 80% of the answers right, while in other case, you might have gotten only 20% of them right. I agree it's good to have the relative score mentioned, but some arbitrary measure should also be required.

very true, i was talking more about standardized tests... such as SAT TAASP GRE MCAT etc

I've always wondered where can I find a web page or something that compares the work that students go through in different countries. I used to attend Franklin Learning Center in Philadelphia, PA, US from 1999-09-07--2000-02-23 and many friends of mine have told me that they have had the work they are doing now (1999-09-07; Grade 9/14 years of age) Algebra 1) 2-4 years prior. They were from Eastern Asia (not even Japan but, third-world countries!).

I know the US has some very low educational standards and I find it odd that fractions and the imperial/US/English measurement system are still be teached and used in mathematics classes. I also noticed that there are no classes that teach the differences between English as it's used in the US, and English as it's used in other countries. These kinds of things are important to know as society is more global than ever.

I can write more but, I'll do that later...

Well, I can compare croatian and the american system for you if you want, as I've been under both.

At 7th and 8th grade, you're doing stuff from math that we did at 4th and 5th grade. You don't get subjects like chemistry or physics before high school, while we get them at 7th grade. We don't have any options as far as choosing subjects throughout the high school. We only get to choose some subjects at a university, and even that on later years. We do however have the ability to choose a specific version of the highschool (like linguistic, mathematical etc., or 3-year versions which specialize in a certain area of industry like chemistry or carpentry). In good high schools, the difficulty of the subjects we have are at approximately your college level, so we go directly to the university, while you are wasting 2 years to make up for what you missed earlier.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Well, I can compare croatian and the american system for you if you want, as I've been under both. At 7th and 8th grade, you're doing stuff from math that we did at 4th and 5th grade. You don't get subjects like chemistry or physics before high school, while we get them at 7th grade. We don't have any options as far as choosing subjects throughout the high school. We only get to choose some subjects at a university, and even that on later years. We do however have the ability to choose a specific version of the highschool (like linguistic, mathematical etc., or 3-year versions which specialize in a certain area of industry like chemistry or carpentry). In good high schools, the difficulty of the subjects we have are at approximately your college level, so we go directly to the university, while you are wasting 2 years to make up for what you missed earlier.

It all depends on what high school you go to. Some are quite excellent while others have much to be desired. My school for instance had a full International Baccalaureate program plus excellent AP courses and very competant teachers. There should be a national set of standards that all schools should follow. At any rate I think the following article outlines that the real problem with the school system is that there is simply so much disparity in the quality level of schools.

http://www.edweek.org/ew/newstory.cfm?slug=15pisa.h21

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