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Rave Act 2

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Earlier this year, backdoor politics led to the RAVE Act being signed into law making it easier for law enforcement to arrest event holders for the drug offenses of their patrons. Live entertainment will be furthered endangered if the Ecstasy Awareness Act, anti-rave legislation broadening the RAVE Act, passes Congress. Like the RAVE Act, this piece of legislation, currently being considered by Congress, could effectively ban live music and dancing while throwing innocent people like you in jail. If enacted, HR 2962 could prevent you from hearing your favorite band or DJ live. Section 2 of the bill declares: `(c) Whoever profits monetarily from a rave or similar electronic dance event, knowing or having reason to know that the unlawful use or distribution of a controlled substance occurs at the rave or similar event, shall be fined not more than $500,000 or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the defendant is an organization, the fine imposable for the offense is not more than $2,000,000.' Because drug use is a common occurrence at many musical events, this provision will leave the door open for any concert promoter, event organizer, or nightclub owner to be fined and jailed. Under the provisions of the Ecstasy Awareness Act, it doesn�t matter if the event promoter and property owner tried to prevent people from using drugs. Nor does it matter if the vast majority of people attending the event are law-abiding citizens that want to listen to music and not do drugs. The Ecstasy Awareness Act of 2003 is a dangerous piece of legislation that will suppress free speech and punish innocent business owners for the crimes of their customers. It is vital that voters contact their Representatives and tell them not to co-sponsor this bill.

read about this in chill out forum.. it's fucking crazy... the country of freedom is even trying to illegalize dance events.... good job!

http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org

Well, essentially it's no different than the rave act that was sneaked in with the amber alert bill. The current anti-rave act essentially allows the owner of an establishment to face criminal charges in the event of drug use. The amendment to the rave act allows prosecutors to indict promoters of an event for throwing an event with drugs. So essentially it is granting no new powers, only broadening the list of those who are responsible. I haven't seen any instances where the rave act has been habitually abused since its passing so I'm somewhat unconcerned, I still hope it doesn't pass however.

What is surprising however, is that the bill was proposed in the house by 4 democrats , 2 from New Jersey!! Oh well, I'm sure the republicans aren't complaining. So anyway, at this point I'm unconcerned.

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Originally posted by occrider What is surprising however, is that the bill was proposed in the house by 4 democrats , 2 from New Jersey!! Oh well, I'm sure the republicans aren't complaining. So anyway, at this point I'm unconcerned.

Yeah, kinda funny really. Also kinda reminds me of Tipper Gore vs. Twisted Sister back in the '80's with rock music causing so much "stir" that Congressional hearings were required. You ever notice how eerily similar Tipper's hair was to that Twisted Sister guy's hair (except I think he actually had the perm)?

I love the irony of America. We are the "land of the free" yet there's the R.A.V.E. Act

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Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Yeah, kinda funny really. Also kinda reminds me of Tipper Gore vs. Twisted Sister back in the '80's with rock music causing so much "stir" that Congressional hearings were required. You ever notice how eerily similar Tipper's hair was to that Twisted Sister guy's hair (except I think he actually had the perm)?

Ahh the good old days of Tipper and the PMRC.

Poor Tipper and her pals should have done their homework and picked someone else to testify other than Dee Snider. No one was expecting a guy that looks like he did to be as intelligent, well-spoken, and well informed an individual as he was (and still is).

MrS

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Originally posted by MrSquirrel Ahh the good old days of Tipper and the PMRC. Poor Tipper and her pals should have done their homework and picked someone else to testify other than Dee Snider. No one was expecting a guy that looks like he did to be as intelligent, well-spoken, and well informed an individual as he was (and still is). MrS

and all this started from her buying her daughter a prince cd

anyone remember when Judas Priest was sued because some kids decided to committ suicide "because of the band"?
These kids had a suicide pact, and one of them ended up killing himself, and his parents blamed it on a Judas' Priest song. They said that on e of their tracks (can't remember which), when played over and over again, seems to emitt the words "Do It". Do what? Do it! make a ham sandwich!
Of course, the case was thrown out. but it only goes to show that music will never go unprotested in this country.

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Originally posted by Galapidate I love the irony of America. We are the "land of the free" yet there's the R.A.V.E. Act

If you are saying the irony of America is that a freely elected representative government (i.e. government by the people) can end up making mistakes then I guess I can kinda see that. It is kinda ironic that Americans choose to repress themselves, but I certainly do not see that as an excluse American trait. I consider that a human trait.


Besides I will take an unjust law that is clearly un-Constitutional and will be overturned by the people over any government that wants to tell me when to take vacation, what doctor to use, and how much am allowed to earn.

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Originally posted by ChrstnMchl Besides I will take an unjust law that is clearly un-Constitutional and will be overturned by the people over any government that wants to tell me when to take vacation, what doctor to use, and how much am allowed to earn.

the passing of this law is a step in the directon of the type of government you mentioned...a communist one.

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Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 the passing of this law is a step in the directon of the type of government you mentioned...a communist one.

communist?

or fascist?

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Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 the passing of this law is a step in the directon of the type of government you mentioned...a communist one.

What tenant of communism refers to dancing or drugs?


It is human nature for one group of people in a society to think they know what is better for another group. This has nothing to do with capitalism, communism, or fascism. It has to do with power and the urge to use it.

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Originally posted by joeh152 communist? or fascist?

Fascism?


This is not a dictator trying to run everything. It is a representative government that believes it is representing the people in it's pursuit of the war on drugs (along with perceived drug culture).

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Originally posted by ChrstnMchl What tenant of communism refers to dancing or drugs? It is human nature for one group of people in a society to think they know what is better for another group. This has nothing to do with capitalism, communism, or fascism. It has to do with power and the urge to use it.

what i mean is that the government obviously doesn't like this aspect of culture. So they are attempting to shut it down. they're trying to take away the freedom of being able to go to a club and enjoy the music.
i know i'm being too radical, but do you get what i'm trying to say?

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Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 anyone remember when Judas Priest was sued because some kids decided to committ suicide "because of the band"? These kids had a suicide pact, and one of them ended up killing himself, and his parents blamed it on a Judas' Priest song. They said that on e of their tracks (can't remember which), when played over and over again, seems to emitt the words "Do It". Do what? Do it! make a ham sandwich! Of course, the case was thrown out. but it only goes to show that music will never go unprotested in this country.

i think it was break the law... but all this also happened to one of black sabbath's songs a few years before. heavy metal is blamed because its more rebellious, more anti-social, and less likely to conform to society's standards... so they blame it on metal...

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Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 what i mean is that the government obviously doesn't like this aspect of culture. So they are attempting to shut it down. they're trying to take away the freedom of being able to go to a club and enjoy the music. i know i'm being too radical, but do you get what i'm trying to say?

I get what you are trying to say. But I don't know if you are seeing my point. The government is the people. We are freely doing it to ourselves. I'd be really curious to know how many people who I hear complain about this law actually vote. Hell, a lot of the time I see people make it out to be some right wing thing, but when you actually take the time to read who sponsered and wrote the bill you can see the Democrats are every bit as guilty as the Republicans. Yet, for some reason, these same people still champion the Democratic Party, like they are the great saviors of liberty.

The ONLY party that is for true freedom is the Libertarian Party. Sadly, I highly doubt everyone that is so uberconcerned about this law will go so far as to make that statement by voting Libertarian.

I understand your views now. I guess the only people we can truely blame are the assholes who decide to pop E every time they see a DJ.

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Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 I understand your views now. I guess the only people we can truely blame are the assholes who decide to pop E every time they see a DJ.

Well I don't take and drugs myself, but the entire electronic dance music scene has been heavily linked to drugs for years. If it wasn't for the drug use then there may well be no trance.

Just think before you say something silly like "assholes who decide to pop E".

What I don't get is why ELECTRONIC MUSIC events are the main targets, when drugs are used at rock concerts and hip hop clubs, etc.? My parents came home from a Moody Blues concert once last year and their clothes smelled like pot :P

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Originally posted by Galapidate What I don't get is why ELECTRONIC MUSIC events are the main targets, when drugs are used at rock concerts and hip hop clubs, etc.? My parents came home from a Moody Blues concert once last year and their clothes smelled like pot :P

Because about 80% of people in clubs are taking drugs.

I don't know how that compares to rock concerts but I would imagine far less people are taking far less illegal/dangerous drugs (cannabis).

In the uk, you could get 7 years for possetion of ecstacy, and life for supplying.

Compared to cannabis, which soon possesion will not be arrestable.

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Originally posted by ChrstnMchl The government is the people. We are freely doing it to ourselves.

This is a classic example of The Collectivist Lie. The only people who are freely creating an unjust law are those individuals directly responsible for the passage of that law: namely those few individuals who voted for it. The government is not the people. The government is a small group of individuals selected by the people from a small and generally homogeneous pool of candidates who, once elected, have virtually no accountability for their actions.

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Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 I understand your views now. I guess the only people we can truely blame are the assholes who decide to pop E every time they see a DJ.

No! This is entirely the wrong conclusion. The ones to blame are the narcissistic tyrants who violate our natural rights with this sort of rancid authoritarian bullshit.

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Originally posted by joeh152 In the uk, you could get 7 years for possetion of ecstacy, and life for supplying.

That's way more harsh than even the US.

On first offense here (possession of E), you'd usually get a fine/probation. If you're black you are more likely to get a harsher sentence, and are more likely to be charged with intent to distribute for the same amount of drugs, and get possible jail time.


If you're a multiple offender, then you're fucked (I'd say literally heh).


Can someone explain this whole Tipper Gore BS to me?

I'm starting to realize more an more that Republicans and Democrats are practically the same (Arbiter said it best). In other words they are about equally as nauseating and oppressive.

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Originally posted by DaveSaenz That's way more harsh than even the US. On first offense here (possession of E), you'd usually get a fine/probation. If you're black you are more likely to get a harsher sentence, and are more likely to be charged with intent to distribute for the same amount of drugs, and get possible jail time.

Well, thats the max sentance you could get for class a drugs (ecstacy, heroin, coccaine etc.). You wouldnt really get in that much trouble.

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Originally posted by Arbiter This is a classic example of The Collectivist Lie. The only people who are freely creating an unjust law are those individuals directly responsible for the passage of that law: namely those few individuals who voted for it. The government is not the people. The government is a small group of individuals selected by the people from a small and generally homogeneous pool of candidates who, once elected, have virtually no accountability for their actions.

The government IS the people in the form of a representative democracy. If you wanted to get into technicalities than you can say that the entire world is living the collectivist lie because there is no true democracy. And personally, I wouldn't WANT to live in a country with direct democracy .... I've seen some of the effects direct democracy has yielded in California and the such. We might as well simply instate mob rule.

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No! This is entirely the wrong conclusion. The ones to blame are the narcissistic tyrants who violate our natural rights with this sort of rancid authoritarian bullshit.

Very well, then I want my natural rights invoked to NOT pay for the health care of said drug addict when he overdoses. If one wants to enjoy the benefits society provides than they must adhere to the rules and laws that society sets.

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Originally posted by occrider The government IS the people in the form of a representative democracy. If you wanted to get into technicalities than you can say that the entire world is living the collectivist lie because there is no true democracy. And personally, I wouldn't WANT to live in a country with direct democracy .... I've seen some of the effects direct democracy has yielded in California and the such. We might as well simply instate mob rule.

direct democracy sucks, ppl is to lazy to know about politican stuff... indirect democracy also sucks in a way, especially when there is only two parties... but i don't know any better way of rulig a socity...

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Very well, then I want my natural rights invoked to NOT pay for the health care of said drug addict when he overdoses. If one wants to enjoy the benefits society provides than they must adhere to the rules and laws that society sets.

this would be a proper argument if everybody had equal skills and equal chances... but we don't live in a perfect world, some are smarter then others, some are just meant to die of a drug overdose... so it's our socity's job to make the world as equal as possible...

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Originally posted by St_Andrew this would be a proper argument if everybody had equal skills and equal chances... but we don't live in a perfect world, some are smarter then others, some are just meant to die of a drug overdose... so it's our socity's job to make the world as equal as possible...

Well I was referring to Arbiter's statement that we have natural rights to be able to take whatever drugs we want. If that is the case than I'm going to invoke my natural rights to not pay for the health care of individuals who would like to invoke their natural rights with respects to that topic. Isn't it a violation of my natural rights that that individual is stealing my money to pay for his stupidity and health care? Therefore governments must set laws such that the rights of an individual do not tread upon the rights of any other individual. Essentially, the only government one can have where all natural rights are respected is an anarchist government. And knowing intrinsic human behaviour, I think we can guess how successful that would be.

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