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Posted by seven.dj on Aug-28-2003 20:06:

When mixing a cd set....

When you guys go to record a cd or play a live set exactly how do you prepare the set??
Of course song selection would come first, putting in whatever sounds good next to each other but I was wondering more than that.

At what point do you drop the next track in?? Ie... Track A's breakdown... or Track B's Buildup... Or do you go as far as to timing it exactly right so that track a winds down while track b is building up? Is there a certain beat or sound that Track A has at one point and you've gone over it so many times that you know thats when its time to start up Track B? (but not drop it yet)

So my question kinda is a bunch of different crap but nevertheless its always interested me. Do you actually listen to every song to figure out how many measures are between buildups so you would know how long before the next buildup and when to drop the next track??

I mean for some of my tracks I spin them so often I just know obviously, but what about the others. Do any of you guys index your records and measure and mark various intro and outro measures??

It would be time consuming but in the long run I think if you knew that Track A had 4 measures after the final buildup before it stops to a beat you would know when to switch over the bass...

So before you go to spin live, do you do it all somewhat improv (youve done it before and can do it again) or do you actually break the song down to figure out EXACTLY when you start up the next track so it will time right and both tracks break at the same point?

Thanks
seven

Posted by JohnSmith on Aug-28-2003 23:05:

i do that, try to plan out my mixes, not just track order, but breakdown position. I use it for playing all the time, not just on a CD.

but, i don't write it down anywhere, i just sorta remember. Most songs are made so that from the breakdown to the last beat is 256(4x4x4x4) beats. I try to remember which songs with intros and outros like that, so i can mix them together easily.

For 2 records like this, i usually drop the second record right on the first beat of the outgoing tracks breakdown. i correct any thrown in errors, fine tune beatmatching, and then pull the bass EQ down a whole bunch, and a bit of mid too. At 64 beats there is usually a fairly major change in both tracks simultaneously, i will turn up the channel volume of the incoming to about 7 or 8, and mix in the treble of the incoming.

then at 128, there is an even more major change, at that point i usually turn up the mid on the incoming, and turn it down a bit on the outgoing. sometimes i swap the bass here, depending on the tracks. if there is a big change in the incoming tracks bass (say from a kick drum to a rolling bassline) then i will swap the bass, but if it stays the same, i won't.

then at 192 beats, i usually move it over a bit more, maybe turn down the treble on the outgoing, or slowly swap basses. sometimes i also do "cuts" or kill switch type stuff starting at 192, trying to emphasize the incoming track.

then at 256, the MOST major part happens, the outgoing song ends, and the incoming song has a big change, such as a breakdown, and the mix is done.

a LOT of records will work like this, but not all. Some only have 128beat outros and intros. some only 64. and others have some other pattern.

I have 2 records that i KNOW i have to drop the second at a certain time, i know exactly where. it's an unlogical place to drop the record, it's a phrase and half after a major change i did take quite a bit of time planning out the mix and perfecting it.

so, now i know the records and can duplicate the mix any time, at least the phrasing, i do the actual levels and EQ different each time.

Posted by Unknown DJ on Aug-28-2003 23:14:

when i mix vinyl i tell alot of whats gona happern and when to put in the next song by the coloured grooves, just thought tho, im getting cd decks in under a month and cd's dont have coloured grooves.......bugger.....

Posted by dknylady on Aug-29-2003 02:42:

well when i plan out a mix cd i of course have to know and love all the songs i put in it by heart. i then spend hours playing with certain songs i KNOW i want in there , with other songs i'm not so sure about. i try to use my best judgement in which songs compliment eachother, and of course, track order, how the set will build up.

as for measures, i never bother to count. somehow in the back of my mind, i'm unconciously counting and i know what is a good point to drop the beat on.

also two things help me with knowing when to drop my next beat. 1) the grooves tell me where my break will end. 2) i cue the 5th beat of my incoming track, and i drop my beat on the 5th beat of the outgoing track, as it begins it's 32 beat sequence (i usually like to do this after the second break.) i then check to see that i have them aligned correctly, then i will bring in teh next track at the 16th beat in the sequence, or even the 32nd. this is much easier than having to memorize exactly how many beats lead into my cue point. all i have to do is listen.

Posted by RobertRollie on Aug-29-2003 15:41:

Seriously dude figure out what your own style is dont ask other people how to do it. How you build a set is what makes you a dj. Theres no set time for when to drop the next track in... the breakdown or the wind dowm or where ever, it doesnt matter, you drop in the next track when it sounds right. Sound is subjective so no one can tell you. Anyone can splay 2 records into each other, beat matching is something anyone can learn. Your interpretation of what sounds good is the difference between being an artist and operator.

Get a minidisc player or some other digital recorder thats small and easy to hook up, then just record all your sets, you always play best when no ones listening so just record it all and you will capture the finer moments of every set.

Posted by quddha on Aug-29-2003 19:01:

thats right, its an art... not an exact procedure. one way might work for some songs, but not for others. i roughly know the songs, and I make a estimate as to where I should drop it, and then do my best to make it sound good.... trial and error, you'll learn from your mistakes.

Posted by TranceInMySoul on Aug-31-2003 11:09:

Just practice mixing with your tracks and you should (hopefully) develop an instinctive feel for when and how to mix tracks into each other.

However, cos I don't practice often, when I do a mix CD I do the following:
1) Grab about 20 tracks I would like on the CD
2) Put the tracks into a rough order
3) Try each mix, switching the order and removing tracks if the mix isn't good enough (due to clashing harmonies etc.) After this stage you should normally be left with 12-15 tracks for an 80 min CD (if you're doing 2 deck mixing anyway )
4) Hit record and go for it!

Live sets are different. I typically don't have the first clue what I'm gonna play next as I take the vinyl I've just mixed out off the turntable

Posted by futurevision on Sep-01-2003 02:42:

i just look at the colour on the vinyl
but i dont know where or time myself when to drop it...
well if i was making a CD i still can't be bothered timing it, (it takes up too much time!)
i just keep mixing it at the same point until i remember it.

if there was a digital reading on the turntables maybe ill write it down but in this case nope.

when making a CD
i usually grab 20 to 30 records
put the songs i really like on the CD aside.
mix with those song first then add in other songs that is just ok
i usually start the SET softer at the beginning and ending it HARD.

well thats what i do but what you do is up to you and do what u do if it makes you

-Rob

Posted by DJ A.i on Sep-01-2003 04:04:

to tell you the truth.. all these are really great hints .. but when spinning, you cant really put an exact structure to it. when you get your vinyl or CD in your case, you should just take it straight to the decks... listen to it once, and just started experimenting with that track... i know you want someone to tell you that there is a step by step way of mixing.. but there really isnt.. u gotta just play it and just mix and match different tracks to see how they sound... try different things. once you get the hang of things, you can just listen to a track once and just say to yourself" man, this song would sound perfect with (title of another song)"

good luck

Posted by seven.dj on Sep-05-2003 19:36:

Thanks guys... john exactly the kind of input I was looking for...
Ya usually (pretty much always) I just kinda experiment and screw around with tracks. Some of the more frequent tracks I lay down I do just know when I should drop it and what works versus what doesnt.

What I was trying to get at was when I listen to a set that tiesto or buuren or others record on cd I swear to god it sounds like sometimes they literally break it down into the format John was talkin about... Since DJin is layin down tracks one after another, its kind of like a producer of records layin them out in whatever would sound the best. So to try to break it down technically always seemed to me like the thing to do... but what do I know, I'm way to f---in lazy to do that haha.

But anyways I found whats best for me to figure out when to drop tracks is not just to experiment with the trakcs but to sit down and just listen.... to the entire track start to finish. I always seem to pick up on somethin new and I always remember to drop it at that point the next time...

Matty k

Posted by DjSimonB on Sep-06-2003 16:35:

If I'm planning a CD set (actually, I am just now, coming soon guys ) I tend to play about with the tracks I wanna put in it, see how well they go together so I can establish some kind of order that they'll be in... and knowing the tracks isn't much of a problem for me, I tend to pick up the structure of songs quite quickly, like after 1-3 listens.

Posted by Xavier on Sep-07-2003 01:28:

I get it matched as early as possible, and then I hit on the last 128 beats, but the incoming track isnt heard till the last 96 beats (32 beats later )

Posted by DJ Charlie on Sep-07-2003 02:57:

Well...I just do a track selection.. between 10 and 14
I like to let the songs play their beautiful sounds.. so i don't rush mixing them as fast as possible... I usually start the mix at the last minute of the track (for 128 beats) this is the average...
some times I do a quicker mix (last 64 beats) or ,sometimes the songs I play have smooth and long build ups... and long ending... so I do near a 2 minutes mix (256 beats or 192 beats)
anyways... I just play my records till I pass 70 min of mixing... then I prepare a last mix... if I have time for a last song I play it.
the result should get near 80 min..
If its too much... I pitch up the entire mix in a wave editor so it can fit in a 80 min CD.