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OM style carts suck!

So, i had some stanton trackmasters, the concorde style ones, and i wasn't too impressed with them. I looked around extensively and decided eventually to go with something cheap and reliable, the industry standard recommended Stanton 500 AL II.

Little did i know what a pain in the ass these things are! When i got my concorde style ones, i just slipped em on, hit play and was ready to go. with these, they sat for 5 days before i even opened the package because i knew it would be a pain.

so, i got up this morning, and decided to put them on. first step is

"if the ton arm requires the cartridge to be mounted by screws from underneath, screwing inot thread holees in the tone arm, then use the BLUE plastic peice. you will probably need to use the 348 brass screws."

"if your tone arm requires cartridges to be mounted by screws from the top, use the two BLACK pieces and one pair of the #2-56 screws.

Well.. how am i supposed to know? I eventually looked it up in my technics manual, but a lot of people would have no idea, and no manual. turns out i am supposed to use these plastic blocks. so, i try this. first thing i realize is, there is no mini screw driver provided. I get out my multihead driver, but alas, no bits small enough to fit in these screws. i guess i will have to go buy one of those eyeglass toolkit things. but, it's early, nothing is open, and i am still in my pajamas, so i grab a butter knife, which fits perfectly.

so, after looking at the cryptic, badly photocopied diagram, i eventually figure out how to attach the plastic blocks to the "wings" of the cartridge. I try to put in the screws. If you have ever tried to screw something together, where the pieces are very small, and nothing is stable (ie it's all loose and sliding around) then you will know how difficult this was, especially using a butter knife. suffice to say it took me awhile.

then once i had them mostly tightened, i got the overhang gauge out (another thing most technics owners probably don't still have), and tried to line it up properly for the right overhang. unfortunately, the screws were a bit too close for the headshell, and moving it was difficult, it kept wanting to slide sideways. Also, the wire leads are in the way, and keep trying to push it the wrong direction

I got it pretty close to lined up, the right distance, and the right orientation, and screwed it in. well, almost until i got to the point that i realized my butter knife wasn't going to cut it, because there is a channel for the screws, and my knife would not fit. note to anyone who buys cartridges like this a knife will not do, you must go and buy a watch or eyeglass tool kit.

anyway, i realize that there are some bolts that came with my technics, (in a little bag it took me ten minutes to get open with my teeth), and i realized those would fit in the channel, making it possible for me to screw in the screws all the way with the knife.

now, here is where i screwed up. i UNSCREWED the screws, put the bolts in (which kept falling through the holes sideways), and tried again, with the technics screws (as opposed to the stanton ones, which were just slightly too small for the bolts) I figured that the technics screws would carve new threads nicely in the plastic, since they were bigger. Unfortunately, i was wrong, they won't go in now.

so, i'm basically fucked. I have $1300 worth of turntables, and $80 worth of carts and needles, and i can't get them to work, for lack of patience, a proper toolkit, and a tiny plastic block.

anyway, if you read all this, save your self the hassle, just get the ones that screw right on

maybe its just the technics headshells that are the problem. i've attached carts to my stanton headshells and there were no problems at all. took me 3 mins.

Nah, he's just clumsy

J/k, it just takes some practice and common sense.

The first time I cursed a lot too (especially because I have big fingers, not recommended for precision work, but I got some experience in that area so...). Of course if ease of use is your goal, P-mounts are the way to go (except if you have short straight tonearms, not recommended at all. P-mounts are aligned for S-shape arms). Usually, if you took some good carts, you won't have to do it much (as a cartridge doesn't wear out fast, can last dozens of styli). I've done it hundreds of times (no not for me , I use Ortofon Concorde Nightclubs myself, and replacement OM's and M44-7's. Hey I had to do something with the headshells that came with the techs. The OM carts are those I bring along when playing out).

take your time and use your head

or better yet mail them to me and ill put em together for you

I couldn't agree more. the 500AL-II was my first cartridge, and it was a pain in the ass to put together. It was fairly easy and didn't take long, but it was a pain in the ass nonetheless. I have one 500AL-II on one TT and a black Ortofon Concorde Pro S on the other TT. I'd rather pay the $80 or $90 and get something that I can install immediately, has better sound quality, and looks fly as hell.

yeah, exactly, i'm not saying it's impossible, but it's a pain in the ass!

I'm heading over to my friend the jeweller today, he will do it for me.

I've been DJing for 2 years.

My opinion is that, just in case you were thinking about going with it, that Ortofon Concorde (or anything Concorde except Shures), Suck.

Stick with OM Needles. They may not look as flashy, and may not be as convenient as the Concorde style, but unless you're using them, you're missing out. OM needles are the mark of someone that knows how to use his shite.

If you want to look elite, then I recommend using OM Ortofon Nightclubs. Those things look awesome on Technics mounts.

The truth is, eventually, you'll run out of spit to make ends meet. If you're a hardcore Concorde user, you'll know what I'm talking about. Anyway, here's some pics of my jazz:

I scratch too- every OM cart ive used skips too much....

Concordes are awesome in my personal opinion ( ortofon nightclub S and Dj S are whati personally use) and hold the groove a lot better.

but its all down to personal choice really. Whatever floats yer boat.

Ortofon Concorde Pro S ...nice and easy i remember when i first saw these and everyone was telling me to get stanton ones glad i listened to myself.

quote:

Originally posted by Freak I scratch too- every OM cart ive used skips too much.... Concordes are awesome in my personal opinion ( ortofon nightclub S and Dj S are whati personally use) and hold the groove a lot better. but its all down to personal choice really. Whatever floats yer boat.

I swear I read somewhere that concorde style isn't that great for scratching (?)

quote:

My opinion is that, just in case you were thinking about going with it, that Ortofon Concorde (or anything Concorde except Shures), Suck. Stick with OM Needles. They may not look as flashy, and may not be as convenient as the Concorde style, but unless you're using them, you're missing out. OM needles are the mark of someone that knows how to use his shite.

Any proof for that? I, for sure am someone that knows how to use his shite (and not to boast too much, but even better than 90% of the people around here, cuz I actually know the theory behind it all too, plus I got lots of lots of experience with gear).

Fact is, if you're talking about turntables with straight arms, then you are right, OM is the way to go. But with S-shaped tonearms, a correctly set up Ortofon OM will behave EXACTLY like the corresponding Concorde. The Concordes were designed to work optimally with SL1200 arms (and most other manufacturers copied from that). So with the same overhang setting (put a concorde on one of those overhang gauges that come with techs, and you'll see they're aligned really well), and the same weight setting it will be exactly the same except for the looks.
Of course, you can't angle the cartridge with a P-mount, like you can on an OM. This could improve the skip resistance of your needle, but will increase record wear also. So it's mainly for turntablists (as they don't really care as much as mixologists for record wear). For mixing purposes Concordes are some of the best (if not THE best) cartridges you can get (if you change a lot of cartridges be sure to take the later models with the rounded pins though, if you don't switch every two days, you're good with old ones). Soundwise they are phenomenal (even their lowest Pro) and they don't track bad. Nothing to compare with Stanton P-mounts which are absolutely horrible at tracking. The Shure Whitelabel is a good contender, but you must like the sound, and sorry, but it's way overpriced.

"If you want to look elite, then I recommend using OM Ortofon Nightclubs. Those things look awesome on Technics mounts."

Those things look like ass. I'm now glad that I spent the extra cash and went with the concords.

es

quote:

Originally posted by Vert "If you want to look elite, then I recommend using OM Ortofon Nightclubs. Those things look awesome on Technics mounts." Those things look like ass. I'm now glad that I spent the extra cash and went with the concords. es

I thought they looked pretty dope

i thought the OM style carts look good mounted on those headshells and they are cheaper than the concords. as for shure whitelabels being way overpriced, i dont think that they are rediculously expensive. djmart has two whitelabels in a case for $200. thats alot of cash, dont get me wrong but have you look at the price for ortofon nightclubs lately? i've never heard the whitelabels but if they are as nice as people say, then $200 isnt really all that bad. you only really need to buy carts once, if you buy good ones right off the bat

Maybe, but I still like the sound of Nightclubs better (rounder, more smooth sounding, I even prefer the sound of the blue DJ series), and they aren't as expensive here as the Whitelabels. Then again, you can't discuss sound preferences, as each person has his own taste, and there's no right or wrong there. Ok, Shure did a great thing by making a P-mount cartridge that's easy to install, and still leave the option to adjust overhang (and angle slightly). But I tried them, and frankly they are not worth the extra money over Nightclubs. If I should set a price, it would be equal to Nightclubs at most. But you must keep in mind that Whitelabels are still a new product, so I hope the prices will get down to decent values later.

But I'm sad to see it is again devolving to a matter of looks. Lately the dj business has been hit by the design stuff, and lots of people are falling for it. Sound quality is still my main concern, and if it looks bad, so be it. Nowadays when new gear is presented on shows, people go crazy and make statements like : "It's gonna be awesome, I'm buying several when it comes out!", just based on looks (just look at the Technics cd player threads all over the net). If it performs well and looks good at the same time, that's great. But looks alone don't tell anything about the actual quality of the stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Thy Maybe, but I still like the sound of Nightclubs better (rounder, more smooth sounding, I even prefer the sound of the blue DJ series), and they aren't as expensive here as the Whitelabels. Then again, you can't discuss sound preferences, as each person has his own taste, and there's no right or wrong there. Ok, Shure did a great thing by making a P-mount cartridge that's easy to install, and still leave the option to adjust overhang (and angle slightly). But I tried them, and frankly they are not worth the extra money over Nightclubs. If I should set a price, it would be equal to Nightclubs at most. But you must keep in mind that Whitelabels are still a new product, so I hope the prices will get down to decent values later. But I'm sad to see it is again devolving to a matter of looks. Lately the dj business has been hit by the design stuff, and lots of people are falling for it. Sound quality is still my main concern, and if it looks bad, so be it. Nowadays when new gear is presented on shows, people go crazy and make statements like : "It's gonna be awesome, I'm buying several when it comes out!", just based on looks (just look at the Technics cd player threads all over the net). If it performs well and looks good at the same time, that's great. But looks alone don't tell anything about the actual quality of the stuff.

well said.

Sorry to resurrect a dead thread but... it seems the the whitelabel is cheaper than the nightclub S. so which one is worth the buy?

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