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Torque???

I've been wondering for awhile, everyone says that belt-driven TTs don't hold pitch cos they have a crappy weak motor (0.650K/cm or something), and we all know that Techs hold there pitch, and there got like a 1.5k/cm motor, well I was wondering is it cos of the torque the techs got that they can hold pitch, or is it like the quality of the motor, and other electronics, if its to do with torque, then why do people say about other TTs not holdin pitch, when they have more torque than techs, like the PT-2100, or STR8-80, and a bunch of others, I ain't tryin to say anything good or bad about any decks, I was just wondering, so if someone could enlighten me, that would be great.

in a belt drive turntable, torque & motor have everything to do with holding pitch, since belt drive motors aren't as efficient, they can slow down or speed up very slightly to hold somewhat steady torque. direct drive turntables on the other hand are not driven by a belt, but purely electronically (magnets and stuff i believe). now the reason that techs hold their pitch is cause of their build. i believe they call it quartz lock, once the pitch is in place it doesn't change. there are other companies that have very good tables also, but since they are relatively new, their build quaility has not entirely been tested by the public. examples of these tables are:

vestax - pdx d3s, or the pdx 2300
numark - tt200, or the ttx1 (claims to have around 3.7kg/cm)

and i'm sure that gemini & stanton both make somewhat equivalent tables...

please don't quote me on that, it's just my understanding of how these things worked...hope it kinda helps

I imagine it must be hell learning to beat match on belt-driven decks.

I actually learned on belt drives, they were old Soundlabs, I'm actually glad I learned on them, cos after, everything was easy, they weren't to bad actually at holdin pitch.

So Liquidmist, my friend has the Gemini PT-2100s and they have 2.2k/cm torque, and a quartz lock feature, so will his hold pitch just fine, they claim to have a wow and flutter of like .01% or something, so if his don't breakdown, will they be fine to do long transitions in trance tunes.

quote:

Originally posted by brian I imagine it must be hell learning to beat match on belt-driven decks.

I tried it today as a matter of fact... my buddy brought his stanton str8-50 over and I went from my new 1210M5G to try to beatmatch on his str8-50 (belt-driven) and it was a fukin mission!!!... he manages tho b/c he's better than me so far at beatmatching, but man... torque is very important.

well technically, ya

but i'm not too sure on gemini build quality, i should judge them since i don't own a pair, but if they say quartz lock then they should hold pitch just fine...you can try it, if you have two records of the same kind, adjust the pitch +8% or +10%, as high as it can go, and then let them go at the same time, if the song plays the same for a relatively long period of time (45seconds-1minute) then you know that the pitch is being held fine...

i should specify:

if you have two of the exact same records...

like you have a copy and your friend has a copy, or for some reason you have 2 copies of the same song...

I was under the impression that Torque and a decks ability to hold pitch were two seperate things (?).

not entirely true, if you're motor can't hold steady torque, it sure as hell won't hold steady pitch... see how it works?

quote:

Originally posted by liquidmist2001 not entirely true, if you're motor can't hold steady torque, it sure as hell won't hold steady pitch... see how it works?

ahh I see, so it ain't all really to do with torque, quality of the motor is a big factor, I guess then Technics could make a less powerful motor, but have it built well for holdin pitch, not that they would want to anyway.
I was also thinkin about the pitch slider, I guess that would have to be of high quality aswell, since thats telling the motor what to do.

precisely, as a matter of fact, technics doesn't even have the strongest motor anymore, i believe it's a vestax or the numark ttx1. the latter is an amazing turntable, with a lot of gimmicks, twice the torque of the technics and still costs $100 less... now go figure that...torque does play an important part... a lot of people like holding down the vinyl after they've caught the beat, and the higher the torque rating the faster the record will spin back to speed when they let it go...

quote:

Originally posted by Prodigy Child I actually learned on belt drives, they were old Soundlabs, I'm actually glad I learned on them, cos after, everything was easy, they weren't to bad actually at holdin pitch. So Liquidmist, my friend has the Gemini PT-2100s and they have 2.2k/cm torque, and a quartz lock feature, so will his hold pitch just fine, they claim to have a wow and flutter of like .01% or something, so if his don't breakdown, will they be fine to do long transitions in trance tunes.

that is given the fact that you're a beat matching god, well not really, but if you're really good at beatmatching, and there's a quartz lock feature available on your tables it should be fine to do long mixes, i've seen big djs do a sorta bootleg mashup remix while they were spinning and it sounded damn damn good!!! hehe, but yeah...you have to be really good at beatmatching.

if you find yourself constantly adjust the pitch to keep it constant, and then you move to a technics or something higher with the new companies...you will notice a big difference, and see that you have more time to interact with the people/audience instead of having your nose always pointed at the tables...

quote:

Originally posted by liquidmist2001 that is given the fact that you're a beat matching god, well not really, but if you're really good at beatmatching, and there's a quartz lock feature available on your tables it should be fine to do long mixes, i've seen big djs do a sorta bootleg mashup remix while they were spinning and it sounded damn damn good!!! hehe, but yeah...you have to be really good at beatmatching. if you find yourself constantly adjust the pitch to keep it constant, and then you move to a technics or something higher with the new companies...you will notice a big difference, and see that you have more time to interact with the people/audience instead of having your nose always pointed at the tables...

I know what you mean about switchin to some good decks, after learning on my Soundlabs (I was a foolish 13yr old when I got them), the next decks I span on were good ol Techs, and man it was a breeze, I even recorded myself a couple of times on the Soundlabs, and my mixes weren't that bad, they weren't smooth transitions, but there weren't any trainwrecks either.
Unfortunately I still don't own Techs after all this time, but I will be soon, but its kinda good, cos I think it makes me abit better, I spin with XL-500s (I know I know, but I didn't even buy them), but I have to switch soon, cos the motor is dieing and the pitch fluctuates every now and then, especially when I match beats near the start of the record, and wait to bring it in at the end of the song, but by then, the record has gone to a different BPM, and I gotta quickly sort it out, oh well, it makes me faster at BPM matchin I guess.

lol man, good for you

i got my decks like only 5 months ago, and it still takes me a while to beatmatch, usually like at least 3/4 the time of the song that's playing...(the only reason is that i can't have my parents knowing that i have decks, if they did i would be disowned...so i have them set up at my friends place, we both bought them together) so i take the easy way out, i've already labeled all the records i have with their BPMs and how many beats to the break, and # of beats in the outro, this way my mixes end up being not half bad.

my decks suck tho, i bought the numark dj battle pack v.4, it's not a bad deal, 2 tables a mixer and headphones for $300 when i bought it brand new, they have decent torque, but the struggle with heavier records, or records where the hole in the center of the record is so small that you have to push the record down...but i found a way around it...1) i just lift up part of the records when i'm matching beats...or 2) i used some WD-40 on the spindle, sprayed some on the top of the motor, and soaked a paper towel in it and apply it to the hole of the record that i wanna put on, and everything is fine and dandy again... hehe, newayz, i hope it helps, i almost bought me a set of the vestax pdx-d3s digital turntables (not cddjs, but actual digital turntables) but i didn't have enough money at that point, the guy was selling them at $250 a piece, which is a bargain for how new they are, and the fact that they are commercially available in the states...

hey man, that package don't look so bad, looks like a good mixer aswell, for awhile I had to mix with a crappy PMX60 mixer, the main feature was its Gains and crossfader , but it worked for awhile, well keep on spinning, it took me like nearly a year to beatmatch on those crappy Soundlabs, but I got it and so will you.

Passion + Determination + Practice = a awesome DJ

quote:

hey man, that package don't look so bad, looks like a good mixer aswell, for awhile I had to mix with a crappy PMX60 mixer, the main feature was its Gains and crossfader , but it worked for awhile, well keep on spinning, it took me like nearly a year to beatmatch on those crappy Soundlabs, but I got it and so will you. Passion + Determination + Practice = a awesome DJ

hey man, 2 outta three ain't bad, i got the passion, and belive me i got passion! lol, i'm determined to do it, but i don't get time to practise cuz my friend lives like 30 mins away, and uh...i can't drive down to his house everyday cuz he has school when i'm out of class...but in mid october the 'rents are leaving for a month, and i'll be free to bring the tables to my house... and that my friends is going to be sweet as hell...!!!

quote:

Originally posted by liquidmist2001 hey man, 2 outta three ain't bad, i got the passion, and belive me i got passion! lol, i'm determined to do it, but i don't get time to practise cuz my friend lives like 30 mins away, and uh...i can't drive down to his house everyday cuz he has school when i'm out of class...but in mid october the 'rents are leaving for a month, and i'll be free to bring the tables to my house... and that my friends is going to be sweet as hell...!!!

Nice man, time for some all night DJ sets.
Just get afew hot ladies to come round and dance for you.

hehe, already tried and tested man, and it doesn't really work unless the chicks there are really into the same type of music, cuz i'd be spinning mainly epic/anthem trance, and there's not a lot of girls here that listen to that kinda of music lol...

their favority "techno" song would probably be alice deejay, or dj sammy - heaven, although i must admit, the humate and pulser remixes for dj sammy - sunlight are fuckin' awesome...newayz yeah, not gonna be allniters unless is thursday/friday nite...i have class at 8 am all other mornings...

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