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Posted by Sand Leaper on Oct-09-2003 09:19:

Vatican: condoms don't stop AIDS

quote:
Steve Bradshaw
Thursday October 9, 2003
The Guardian

The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which the HIV virus can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.
The church is making the claims across four continents despite a widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to the HIV virus.

A senior Vatican spokesman backs the claims about permeable condoms, despite assurances by the World Health Organisation that they are untrue.

The church's claims are revealed in a BBC1 Panorama programme, Sex and the Holy City, to be broadcast on Sunday. The president of the Vatican's Pontifical Council for the Family, Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, told the programme: "The Aids virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the spermatozoon. The spermatozoon can easily pass through the 'net' that is formed by the condom.

"These margins of uncertainty... should represent an obligation on the part of the health ministries and all these campaigns to act in the same way as they do with regard to cigarettes, which they state to be a danger."

The WHO has condemned the Vatican's views, saying: "These incorrect statements about condoms and HIV are dangerous when we are facing a global pandemic which has already killed more than 20 million people, and currently affects at least 42 million."

The organisation says "consistent and correct" condom use reduces the risk of HIV infection by 90%. There may be breakage or slippage of condoms - but not, the WHO says, holes through which the virus can pass .

Scientific research by a group including the US National Institutes of Health and the WHO found "intact condoms... are essentially impermeable to particles the size of STD pathogens including the smallest sexually transmitted virus... condoms provide a highly effective barrier to transmission of particles of similar size to those of the smallest STD viruses".

The Vatican's Cardinal Trujillo said: "They are wrong about that... this is an easily recognisable fact."

The church opposes any kind of contraception because it claims it breaks the link between sex and procreation - a position Pope John Paul II has fought to defend.

In Kenya - where an estimated 20% of people have the HIV virus - the church condemns condoms for promoting promiscuity and repeats the claim about permeability. The archbishop of Nairobi, Raphael Ndingi Nzeki, said: "Aids... has grown so fast because of the availability of condoms."

Sex and the Holy City includes a Catholic nun advising her HIV-infected choirmaster against using condoms with his wife because "the virus can pass through".

In Lwak, near Lake Victoria, the director of an Aids testing centre says he cannot distribute condoms because of church opposition. Gordon Wambi told the programme: "Some priests have even been saying that condoms are laced with HIV/Aids."

Panorama found the claims about permeable condoms repeated by Catholics as far apart as Asia and Latin America.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/stor...1059068,00.html

Tricky situation for the Vatican, which opposes the use of contraceptives even though they are one of the best means of protection for STDs around. I guess this is one way they are trying to handle their dilemma.

Posted by MrSquirrel on Oct-09-2003 10:42:

Yet another bit of Vatican "wisdom" that most Catholics will ignore. Especially seeing as "pulling out" is even less likely to stop the spread of HIV and that is the only form of "contraception" the church allows.

MrS

Posted by LiquidX on Oct-09-2003 10:51:

Condoms have never been a 100% protection so.. hehehe

Posted by Sand Leaper on Oct-09-2003 11:48:

quote:
Originally posted by LiquidX
Condoms have never been a 100% protection so.. hehehe

Then again, the only thing that's 100% is abstinence. But as we all know telling people not to have sex is pretty much futile. So what are you supposed to then?

Posted by occrider on Oct-09-2003 15:07:

I'm certain that the church has greater authoritative knowledge in this field over the WHO.

Posted by Yoepus on Oct-09-2003 18:08:

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
I'm certain that the church has greater authoritative knowledge in this field over the WHO.

I wouldn't question the pope for one!

Posted by Spin Doctor on Oct-09-2003 18:41:

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
I'm certain that the church has greater authoritative knowledge in this field over the WHO.

Congratulations � you Sir, now face eternal damnation!

Posted by occrider on Oct-09-2003 18:47:

quote:
Originally posted by Spin Doctor
Congratulations � you Sir, now face eternal damnation!

Quite the opposite! I support pedophile priests, religious persecution of other religions, the death penalty for gays, and I'm against giving condoms to the poor. My eternal fate couldn't be any more secure!

Posted by Psionic on Oct-09-2003 21:35:

Posted by malek on Oct-09-2003 22:26:

quote:
Originally posted by Sand Leaper
Then again, the only thing that's 100% is abstinence. But as we all know telling people not to have sex is pretty much futile. So what are you supposed to then?

its about morale education and values which have disapered in western societies.

Posted by Spin Doctor on Oct-09-2003 23:40:

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
Quite the opposite! I support pedophile priests, religious persecution of other religions, the death penalty for gays, and I'm against giving condoms to the poor. My eternal fate couldn't be any more secure!

Oh I wouldn�t be so sure! The WHO is an esoteric organisation if there ever was one, I hear that they have the ear of god (...the one true one)!

Posted by nic01445 on Oct-10-2003 02:23:

Re: Vatican: condoms don't stop AIDS

quote:
Scientific research by a group including the US National Institutes of Health and the WHO found "intact condoms... are essentially impermeable to particles the size of STD pathogens including the smallest sexually transmitted virus... condoms provide a highly effective barrier to transmission of particles of similar size to those of the smallest STD viruses".

The Vatican's Cardinal Trujillo said: "They are wrong about that... this is an easily recognisable fact."

i almost laughed at this, until i realized how much more sick it is than humorous. i love how the "holy vatican" in all its "greatness" would be so quick to just blurt out blanket statements without any scientific backing.

quote:
"Some priests have even been saying that condoms are laced with HIV/Aids."

this is even worse. blatent lying. i wonder if they know that everyone who listens to their terrible advice is going to die.

Posted by Yoepus on Oct-10-2003 02:44:

Re: Re: Vatican: condoms don't stop AIDS

quote:
Originally posted by nic01445
this is even worse. blatent lying. i wonder if they know that everyone who listens to their terrible advice is going to die.

good they can then rack them up on the "saved souls" count

Posted by nic01445 on Oct-10-2003 02:48:

Re: Re: Re: Vatican: condoms don't stop AIDS

quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus
good they can then rack them up on the "saved souls" count

vatican < *******

Posted by daffodil on Oct-11-2003 04:37:

Re: Re: Vatican: condoms don't stop AIDS

quote:
Originally posted by nic01445
i almost laughed at this, until i realized how much more sick it is than humorous. i love how the "holy vatican" in all its "greatness" would be so quick to just blurt out blanket statements without any scientific backing.

who needs this silly "science" thing when you have god? when you have god, you don't need law, accountability or even rationality. welcome to catholicism, my daughter.

i brought this up in my public affairs reporting class and my professor asked why i mentioned it. apparently he (and the rest of the class. whoops.) didn't think it was news...

Posted by occrider on Oct-11-2003 05:29:

Re: Re: Re: Vatican: condoms don't stop AIDS

quote:
Originally posted by daffodil
welcome to catholicism, my daughter.

That's son dear . Nico attempts to trick us by passing himself off as his girlfriend ... I bet he's wearing her clothes right now the perv

Posted by biznology on Oct-11-2003 05:31:

having 8 children will stop VD...or something|

Posted by DrUg_Tit0 on Oct-11-2003 20:23:

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
I'm certain that the church has greater authoritative knowledge in this field over the WHO.

Well, the pope is unmistakable, at least that is the official stance of the catholic church. So if he says condoms are useless I guess they are.

And people ask me why I am not religious.

Posted by prolikewhoa on Oct-11-2003 22:16:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Vatican: condoms don't stop AIDS

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
That's son dear . Nico attempts to trick us by passing himself off as his girlfriend ... I bet he's wearing her clothes right now the perv

i was wondering where my skirt was...

Posted by nic01445 on Oct-11-2003 23:24:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Vatican: condoms don't stop AIDS

quote:
Originally posted by prolikewhoa
i was wondering where my skirt was...

its on my head.

Posted by DaveSZ on Oct-12-2003 00:39:

If anyone ever asks why I stopped being a catholic at age 12, I'll refer them to this article. Thanks.

Posted by Echo of Silence on Oct-12-2003 00:50:

to us, this is so absurd, it is laughable; unfortunately, a large percentage of those who listen to the pope don't know better. They haven't had the advantages that we have had. Because of that, this is a very sad edict. Of course, he and the church are not held accountable.

Posted by daffodil on Oct-14-2003 04:03:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Vatican: condoms don't stop AIDS

Posted by 'mju:zik on Oct-14-2003 06:07:

quote:
Originally posted by MrSquirrel
Especially seeing as "pulling out" is even less likely to stop the spread of HIV and that is the only form of "contraception" the church allows.

wtf are you talking about?? the church doesn't allow any pulling out. the only sex allowed by the church is for procreation, pulling out would kinda hamper that.

Posted by 'mju:zik on Oct-14-2003 06:13:

Re: Re: Re: Vatican: condoms don't stop AIDS

quote:
Originally posted by daffodil
who needs this silly "science" thing when you have god? when you have god, you don't need law, accountability or even rationality. welcome to catholicism, my daughter.

what are you talking about?? what about moral law?? where do you think modern law evolved from? have you ever heard of the 10 commandments?? are you saying there's no accountability in religion? so you can't be ex-communicated?? omg stupid ppl piss me off.

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