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What's the point of this?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast...last/index.html

Really ... are all terrorists complete retards? Can they not put two and two together to realize the broader consequences of their actions?

Let me guess: This is Israel's fault?

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper

Lol, exactly

I know it's sad but i couldn't help myself from laughing when reading that article. I really can't believe what morons those guys were. But on a more serious note, I really don't think a person who has dedicated his/her life to killing himself and surrounding civilians could be classified as very bright.

There is no point to this. This is disgusting and neddless. But from a palestinian point of view, anything American is evil to them. Persons that work for a corporation that deals with "security in the mideast" and is by the way an American corp are clearly not going to be welcomed.

The American government and people who fund them are responisible for the bullets and tanks that reak havoc in their lives, and i think they see in in this perspective.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Persons that work for a corporation that deals with "security in the mideast" and is by the way an American corp are clearly not going to be welcomed. The American government and people who fund them are responisible for the bullets and tanks that reak havoc in their lives, and i think they see in in this perspective.

I agree with that

No group has claimed responsibility for Wednesday's attack. Two Palestinian militant groups -- Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad -- told news agencies they had nothing to do with the bombing.

OMG CONSPIRACY!? You know the Bush administration may use this to attack nieghboring countires that support the Palestinians, maybe Syria?

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King There is no point to this. This is disgusting and neddless. But from a palestinian point of view, anything American is evil to them. Persons that work for a corporation that deals with "security in the mideast" and is by the way an American corp are clearly not going to be welcomed. The American government and people who fund them are responisible for the bullets and tanks that reak havoc in their lives, and i think they see in in this perspective.

Responsibility lies in the hands of the dickhead who pulled the trigger. Yeah, "Evil America maaaaade me do it!". That's crap.

Obiously Mossad work.


/sarcasm off

Now, when I think about this incident, maybe there was some logic to it. You see, less university students->less powerful or educated people->less support for the palestinians on the global scale->increased poverty and opression->more blinded terrorist supporters.

quote:

Originally posted by rizen OMG CONSPIRACY!? You know the Bush administration may use this to attack nieghboring countires that support the Palestinians, maybe Syria?

i think so too

or maybe it was Israelis who did it. It was not a normal suicide attack and the one who earned most on this is, Israelis. so it may be

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King But from a Palestinian point of view, anything American is evil to them. Persons that work for a corporation that deals with "security in the mideast" and is by the way an American corp are clearly not going to be welcomed. The American government is responsible for the bullets and tanks that reak havoc in their lives, and i think they see in in this perspective.

I agree. Sorry for editing a bit. I will take this one step further.

The USA gives more money EVERY year to Israel (stop and think how little of a country Israel is) than to any other country on the globe. With that money (which they really don't need, they have their own money), Israel is able to afford the arms and military that no other nation in the Middle East can afford. So if a group of suppressed people (i.e. Palestinians) declares war on Israel (peoples do declare war on other peoples), tell me how should they fight their war?

They want what anyone wants. What you (whoever you are, it matters not) want, what I want. How do they fight this war? Really, if you fight Israel it is like fighting USA because of all of the money that has been poured into Israel.

The Palestinian people don't have the money, the weapons, the military to fight a "legitimate" war like the USA just engaged in, in Iraq. Tell me. How do they fight a war against Israel? What tanks do they use? What armies?

If the world dislikes terrorism or terrorist tactics, maybe the world should give the Palestines the wherewithal to acquire a military and armor equal to those of the Israelis. Then we can have a normal war.

You know, the Israelis and global community cry out everytime a young child of Israel is killed by a terrorist. Why does not the world protest when a Palestinian child is killed by a nation that has money, military, technology...everything that they need to be efficient? To me, they have everything they need to do it right. And they still can't get it right. How can they criticize the Palestinians who have nothing for essentially doing what they do...

I apologize for my English. I tried to say my thoughts correctly though.

firstly.. I couldn't resist

quote:

Originally posted by Echo of Silence I agree. Sorry for editing a bit. I will take this one step further. The USA gives more money EVERY year to Israel (stop and think how little of a country Israel is) than to any other country on the globe. With that money (which they really don't need, they have their own money), Israel is able to afford the arms and military that no other nation in the Middle East can afford.

Egypt, a nation with 74 million people, and $286 billion GDP (http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib...s/wep-harp.html)
versus Israel, a nation with 6 million and $122 billion GDP (http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib...s/wep-harp.html)
recieves $1.9 billion vs Israel's $2.76 billion (http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/9190.pdf) meaning, Egypt can afford a bigger, if not better army then Israel. Don't forget this is why the USA give money to Israel - as a balance of Power against Egypt. So get your facts right buddy - Israel's neighbors have much larger armies then Israel does.




Now for my orginal point.

I came up with a conspiracy theory for this attack the other day.

This attack was very suffisticated; it required timing, inside man, and a window of opprotunity. This does not look like the work of Palestinian terror groups, who are fairly incompetent. It looks like something either an intelligence service would do, or an intelligence trained terror group.

Since the Palestinians have no intelligence ( ) I ruled them out.
Next, Israel has a good intelligence, and would be much more capable of an attack that actually "did" something politically then this, if they wanted to make an attack - which in and of itself is highly dobious.

Ruling those two parties out I remember reading after the war with Afghanistan both Al Qadia and Hezbullah operatives had infiltrated into the Palestinian terriotires. This, road-side remote control expolsive to blow up a convey seems very Hezbullah like to me - one of their expertise.

Hezbullah, is a well funded, well trianed terror group by Iran and Syria.. they know what their doing. This required an inside guy (knowing when and where the convey will pass... I compromised this point when I learned the convey was being escort by PA police).

Hezbullah had no real reason to attack an american convey in Palestinine, if it wanted to send the US a message it would have done so otherwise, this leaves Syria and Iran.

Iran, well could of had some interest due to the new threats with the nuclear expectionations - but why would they do this to the US? If they would have wanted to send the US a message, they could have done better. Also, why would they want to initiate hostilites with the US, giving them any excuse at this fragile moment?

That leaves Syria - Syria had a terrorist camp blown up last week as recall. Although that attack was conducted by Israel I am sure Syria saw Israel acting as a proxy for the USA (Israel sent them America's message). Therefore the Syrians replied, they sent the Ameircans, a message through their proxy (Hezbullah/Palestinians). The message was the following; "You can threaten us, but don't underestimate our capablities, we'll fight you tit for tat".


What do you think?

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus firstly.. I couldn't resist Egypt, a nation with 74 million people, and $286 billion GDP (http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib...s/wep-harp.html) versus Israel, a nation with 6 million and $122 billion GDP (http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib...s/wep-harp.html) recieves $1.9 billion vs Israel's $2.76 billion (http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/9190.pdf) meaning, Egypt can afford a bigger, if not better army then Israel. Don't forget this is why the USA give money to Israel - as a balance of Power against Egypt. So get your facts right buddy - Israel's neighbors have much larger armies then Israel does.

You know, as well as I know, that NONE of Israel's neighbors have larger armies. N O N E.

And don't call me "buddy." I'm not a guy.

Egypt receives 2nd most because of their contributory role in Middle East Peace. No other reason. And you know it. As I know it. And Mubarak has beautiful palaces. So many poor...they will become extremists. The next generation. And no one cares. As long as the administration supports Middle East Peace. A bribe. Nothing more, nothing less.

The rest of your theory, I don't know. I'm not as knowledgeable as you and the usual contributors in this forum. I do know this.

Most Arabs dislike America. Go to Syria or Saudi Arabia or Egypt. They like American money but the fundamentalists view Americans and those associated with America as evil, materialistic, amoral, etc.

Everyone knows that American supports Israel. And remember, for them this is jihad. Holy War. The righteous versus the sinners. The religious versus the western world.

quote:

Originally posted by Echo of Silence You know, as well as I know, that NONE of Israel's neighbors have larger armies. N O N E.

that is not true

Total Active Soldiers:
Israel - 175,000
Syria - 421,000
Egypt - 440,000

Reserves
Israel - 430,000
Syria - 500,000
Egypt - 150,000

Tanks
Israel - 4,300
Syria - 3,400-4,600
Egypt - 3,650

Total Aircraft
Israel - 449
Syria - 579
Egypt - 567

Total Helicopters
Israel - 263
Syria - 228
Egypt - 219
http://www.csis.org/mideast/stable/3g.html

quote:

Originally posted by Echo of Silence You know, as well as I know, that NONE of Israel's neighbors have larger armies. N O N E. Egypt receives 2nd most because of their contributory role in Middle East Peace. No other reason. And you know it. As I know it. And Mubarak has beautiful palaces. So many poor...they will become extremists. The next generation. And no one cares. As long as the administration supports Middle East Peace. A bribe. Nothing more, nothing less.

Look lady, the facts are the facts. I was trying to find a link for this National Geographic Map which has military data on it so you can understand exactly what Israel faces with its neighbors. The closest I came was to a site that sells it;

http://www.thesavvytraveller.com/in...middle_east.htm


But I did uncover this interesting map in the process:
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/i...midEastCon.html

Try and get your hands on the first map, if its through the library or what not - it will let you understand the proportions of what Israel faces better then a list of links of who's military is larger.

Last I recall Israel does not have the largest army in the middle east, - both Syria and Egypt have more man power and more tanks. Israel does however, have the largest air force in the middle east. I'm not sure in regards to the navy, but since Israel has only some 15 or so "boats" it should only be a few billion dollar investment to surpass this.

Your right, - Egypt is only getting the money because they made peace with Israel, but guess what? Israel is only getting th money because they made peace with Egypt too! Go back - historically before 1978 US funding towards Israel was extremly limited! Precedingt he 1967 war in fact, Israel's #1 ally was France - but you know how the French are; money driven and champions of the underdog, once someone isn't the underdog anymore they lose their interest and pick another side. Not to mention the Arabs would be a much better market for military hardware then Israel could ever be.

Its not a right assumption to believe if the Palestinian had a military they would stop terrorism - the "Palestinians" were in the armies of the Arabs, and those Arab armies were defeated and lost everytime they attack. It is not hard then to say if the Palestinians had a conventional military today - it would be defeated as well; do you think they'd stop when their defeated and just give up? No they'd terrorize.

But this is drifting off topic....

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy Tanks Israel - 4,300 Syria - 3,400-4,600 Egypt - 3,650 Total Aircraft Israel - 449 Syria - 579 Egypt - 567 Total Helicopters Israel - 263 Syria - 228 Egypt - 219 http://www.csis.org/mideast/stable/3g.html

Hmm my bad, I guess Israel doesn't even have the largest Air Force in the Middle East - I must have remembered an old stat.

I guess it was the armored forces intsead...

Honestly, I'm not a worthy opponent in a debate. I have no "facts" and no "faulty" statistics to post. I think the statistics you post are worthless. You can find anything anywhere on the web to agree with your position. I could probably find a site that says Danish girls are the hottest sexiest things on the planet. That doesn't mean it is true.

Am I really incorrect in thinking the Israeli military (arms, soldiers, commanders, weapons which include nuclear weapons) is superior to the military of the other countries in the Middle East? If you tell me I am incorrect, I doubt I will believe you. I'll wait and hear what occrider says.

I am now in California. I read the newspapers. When the Palestinian child is killed by the Israeli military (why isn't your military more efficient if you have so much to work with over there?!!) it means nothing. When the Israeli youth is killed by the suicide bomber, it is such a bad thing. Soooooooooo wrong.

Of course, I wish not that an Israeli child be killed. But I also wish not that a Palestinian child be killed. And I think considering the resources, the Israelis should be able to not kill children. It would be a humane gesture. I see no humane gestures.

ps I am so obsessed with trying to speak proper English, I think it doesn't work well here. It sounds like I am angry or harsh and I am not. I am actually torn terribly on this whole situation. I don't feel capable of saying what I want to say in the way I want to say it.

quote:

Originally posted by Echo of Silence If you tell me I am incorrect, I doubt I will believe you. I'll wait and hear what occrider says.

LOL I'm no expert on the middle east! And you should always take what I have to say with a grain of salt. I've absolved myself from the entire Israeli vs. Palestine debate, however I will admit that I'm somewhat pro-Israeli. I will state that the US has good reason to provide Israel with funds (AND veto unfair UN resolutions), and that Israel has good reason to maintain a strong military. Their military has almost nothing to do with the Palestinians. The very existence of Israel has been challenged and pushed to the brink so many times in the past half a century that I feel that they have every right to remain diligentely strong. Especially considering their position in regional affairs. Anyone that who says differentely was probably asleep in history class during the three major decades of strife the middle east and Israel has endured.

That being said ... I disappear into the Israeli/Palestinian void unless someone would like for me to clarify my position!

quote:

Originally posted by occrider That being said ... I disappear into the Israeli/Palestinian void unless someone would like for me to clarify my position!

Ya, I'm curious what do you think of my conspiracy theory? Or should I wait for Vesa and a neo-con edition?

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Ya, I'm curious what do you think of my conspiracy theory? Or should I wait for Vesa and a neo-con edition?

I think everyone is wrong. Since it is the holy land, I think Goddidit

Hmmm now that I mention that, the irony of the most holiest of places being the most violent of places makes one think.

about time you caught onto that one Occrider

Maybe it makes good for heavenly spectating?

quote:

Total Active Soldiers: Israel - 175,000 Syria - 421,000 Egypt - 440,000 Reserves Israel - 430,000 Syria - 500,000 Egypt - 150,000 Tanks Israel - 4,300 Syria - 3,400-4,600 Egypt - 3,650 Total Aircraft Israel - 449 Syria - 579 Egypt - 567 Total Helicopters Israel - 263 Syria - 228 Egypt - 219

have we got a list of the use by dates on some of this machinary? and a comparison of how many weapons of mass destruction each country in the area owns? money going into military research and development? no flamage just interested

quote:

Echo If you tell me I am incorrect, I doubt I will believe you. I'll wait and hear what occrider says.

although i respect occrider more than any of the other right wing people on this forum, i suggest if you want some neutral information
MrSquirrel and Renegade are probably as good as it comes. Or you could spectate an argument between Izzy + Yoepus and Cyrus + myself and weigh the facts each party bring up

quote:

Originally posted by tathi although i respect occrider more than any of the other right wing people on this forum,

I'm not right wing!!!! LOL!

quote:

Originally posted by tathi have we got a list of the use by dates on some of this machinary? and a comparison of how many weapons of mass destruction each country in the area owns? money going into military research and development? no flamage just interested

Israel is most certainly a first rate military force. The Israeli Military Industries is one of the best defense contractors in the world and they are transitioning over to their own Israeli built weaponry from foreign imports. Although they still primarily rely on American jets for their airforce (i believe), their merkava tank program is quite impressive. Not only is their technology better than their neighbors but their tactics and training are excellent as well. Even if another united Arab aggression were to occur, it's unlikely that Israel would be beaten on the battlefield. However, Egypt is rapidly advancing their own military by purchasing M1A1 Abrams tanks and even has a few production factories in Egypt in a deal with the US. With respect to weapons of mass destruction, Israel has nuclear weapons, and pretty much all parties have chemical/biological weapons. Syria most probably has them, and Egypt most certainly has them as evidenced by their use in their war against Yemen (HA how many people know that???).

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