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Studying in Australia

Hi everyone,

I live in Toronto, Canada and am planning on studying abroad for a year (probably next year or the following one), and my #1 choice is Australia. I'm in second year now, so I'd be studying in Australia for my third or fourth (senior) years.

Maybe it's weird that I'm asking on TA, but as TA's, I would love to hear your advice and opinions.

I know Australia has a good trance scene, and a very good psytrance scene too (which is what I'm mainly interested in). The universities (therefore, cities) that are available for me to study at are:

- Australian National University (Canberra)
- University of Melbourne
- University of New South Wales
- University of Queensland
- University of Sydney

Right now I'm considering Melbourne and Sydney. Basically what I'd like to ask is (a) "where is the trance scene," (b) what are your views on which cities are suitable for foreign urban students and, if anyone is informed, (c) "what university has a strong computer science department/program." By "computer science" I don't necessarily mean IT or Computer Programming per se (which, by themselves, I would avoid). In addition to systems and web programming, I'm also interested in theoretical aspects, especially artificial intelligence.

Thanks for any input on any of the above or anything else that I should consider in my search. I very much appreciate your feedback!

i'll try to help answer some of your questions

currently, i'm an IT student doing a course in RMIT (Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology). a few years ago when having to choose which uni, i was faced with either RMIT or Melbourne university which i see is on your list. i chose RMIT over melbourne uni as i read/heard that RMIT had a great computer science/IT department. Compared to other uni's, they taught you things that were very up-to-date, less theoretical based and definitely more practical. they have a habbit of throwin u into the deep end quite quickly which is a lot more realistic when u head out into the real world. having studied there for almost 5 years now, i can vouch its pretty true. Melbourne Uni, on the other hand is no doubt a reputable uni. However, I cant help but feel it only clearly excels in such courses as law, medicine, arts etc. in terms of IT, during my decision time, the department seemed to lack in facilities, was very theory based and taught dinosaur languages. things have probably changed since then however.

One of the factors that will influence ur decision though, since you're coming down for exchange, is the experience of lifestyle, and Melbourne University is definitely one for that. The way the whole structure of the university is like a little town with a slight vintage feel to it. Cafe's, bars, lawns. a very relaxed environment where you'll meet an array of people. RMIT on the other hand, is kinda smack plonk in the middle of the city. You won't find many people hangin around. people are in and out.

in terms of following where the scene is. you would have to choose either melbourne or sydney. personally, i havent actually stepped out much into the scene so i wont be most reliable but sydney seems to be a lot healthier for trance + hard/nrg with an insy bit of prog house [sweetchili?]. melb may be the opposite, since a lot of great prog players are based from here infusion, chable, ivan gough, kasey taylor, nu-breed etc. etc. actually, think bout it. in melb, u get everything



including the huge arena parties!

hope that somewhat helped and g'luck in ur decision!

come to sydney!!!

but melb trance scene is prob better :/

melbourne owns

Here's my advice...

Melbourne or Sydney in terms of dance scene are pretty much equal. But Melb is the pick.. "The worlds most livable city".. <-- No shit.

In regards for unis. I only know for Melbourne.. Don't goto Melbourne Uni for anything IT. There are only two good faculties in Melboune Uni, Medicine and Law. R.M.I.T Uni, Monash Uni, Swinburne Uni are the ones you goto for all your IT courses.

True Melb uni does have the 'lifestyle', it's pretty much it's own town. But that's not to say that other unis are out in the sticks. You can always easily find accommodation etc. around the other universities, and i'm sure if you approach them they will even help you out.

I guess u can read these forums and make your own decision about the Melb dance scene.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Uni of NSW has a very good computer science department

Go to Melbourne... The best city to live in, in Australia I reckon.

I know people who have studied Comp Sci both at Melb Uni and rmit. RMIT is more practical, Melb Uni is more theoretical... Also for some reason Melbourne tends to be considered one of the more prestigious uni's around. The lifestyle is awesome, I'll give it that.
But the best place to start is the websites of the universities you're considering attending, You'll be able to find descriptions of all the subjects on offer start here: www.unimelb.edu.au

Notice how all the Melbourne people have to tell you their opinion that Melbourne is better .. Sydney people don't tell you Sydney is better, simply because we don't have anything to prove

quote:

Originally posted by webmeister Notice how all the Melbourne people have to tell you their opinion that Melbourne is better .. Sydney people don't tell you Sydney is better, simply because we don't have anything to prove

BOOM!

I can't comment on the whole study thing, coz IT aint my thing but as for the psy goes... melbourne seems like a pretty good option. The psy scene is not massive, but its quite big
There are heaps of outdoor parties happening all of the time and the psy dj's do come out and play this yr there was infected mushroom, astrix and bamboo forest, hallucinogen, fractal glider, benza are playing in november along side others.

I do believe that melb and syd would be very similar, most internationals do play in both cities, but maybe melb has the upper hand a bit. A few clubs around town to belt out a bit of psy, best time is probably on sundays hahah not the best for study

the east coast is a shit hole!

west is where its at!

quote:

Originally posted by webmeister Notice how all the Melbourne people have to tell you their opinion that Melbourne is better .. Sydney people don't tell you Sydney is better, simply because we don't have anything to prove

hehe u beat me to it - ur post is exactly what i was gonna say!!

i'm not gonna get into the whole "which is better - syd or melb?" debate, cos it's pointless......but, i do have a lil observation.....and i'm not from either city so i guess u could say my opinion is somewhat "objective"......having been to both cities lots (i'm in sydney at least once or twice a month, and i used to be in melb lots cos my ex lives there), the thing i've noticed most is that melb seems a lot more insular - lotsa melb ppl seem to forget that there actually is a world outside melb *lol* sydney-siders in general seem a tad more open to things beyond sydney.......i think it's probably a product of geography tho - melb is more isolated, and the closest cities to it are ummm, a tad crap (i was born in adelaide and i grew up in hobart, so i have a right to say that...hehehe), so i guess that's why melb ppl seem a bit melb-centric.....sydney just has a more 'worldly' feel to it......i guess if u really wanna immerse urself in one place i'd choose melb, but if that's not ur thing i'd choose syd........

probably gonna get flamed to pieces now - but, just giving my perspective as an 'outsider'

solution: as you have 3rd and 4th year to go (if no fourth you could do a postgrad or masters)... spend one year in each city and sample both =]

then again, no matter where you end up you could always organise a trip to the other city during your uni break

quote:

Originally posted by Teknoscaper. the east coast is a shit hole! west is where its at!

I'm not sure what ur on about, but Melbourne is Australia's trance capital....

If you want trance come to Melbourne or Sydney, Perth has one or two headliners a year.

quote:

Originally posted by Beemer the thing i've noticed most is that melb seems a lot more insular - lotsa melb ppl seem to forget that there actually is a world outside melb *lol* sydney-siders in general seem a tad more open to things beyond sydney.......i think it's probably a product of geography tho - melb is more isolated, and the closest cities to it are ummm, a tad crap (i was born in adelaide and i grew up in hobart, so i have a right to say that...hehehe), so i guess that's why melb ppl seem a bit melb-centric.....sydney just has a more 'worldly' feel to it......i guess if u really wanna immerse urself in one place i'd choose melb, but if that's not ur thing i'd choose syd........ probably gonna get flamed to pieces now - but, just giving my perspective as an 'outsider'

*grin*

i'm not too sure that's necessarily true. a lot of my friends, i included, are actually quite eager to get out of melbourne. i think very few ppl will think "melbourne" the best city, hence the centre of the universe [thats new york to me =)]. it is indeed a livable city, but because of it's relaxed, slow paced kind of lifestyle. on weekdays, melbourne city is virtually asleep already at 10pm. sydney is more worldly in that it is of a faster, busier pace.

but alccode, seeing you're from toronto having a rep of a cleaner new york, u'll probably want a contrast. if you've been to vancouver, melbourne is your equivalent in terms of lifestyle.

Come to Melbourne and learn the "Shuffle"

Sydney cant dance!!

Wow, thanks to all of you for your responses! Before I continue, I want to say that my intention is not to bring up a "Sydney versus Melbourne" or "which city is absolutely better" type of debate (or even flamewar, which happily is not the case) because you can't say such a thing about cities (or anything else for that matter).

I just need a little view on the different aspects of each city as seen from the perspective here, which is what I'm slowly getting. Thanks again.

quote:

Originally posted by JayKuE i chose RMIT over melbourne uni as i read/heard that RMIT had a great computer science/IT department. Compared to other uni's, they taught you things that were very up-to-date, less theoretical based and definitely more practical. ... Melbourne Uni, on the other hand is no doubt a reputable uni. ... in terms of IT, during my decision time, the department seemed to lack in facilities, was very theory based and taught dinosaur languages. things have probably changed since then however.

I'm familiar with the name of RMIT actually -- I have a good book on PHP and MySQL written by two lecturers there, Laura Thomson and Luke Welling. The way you describe RMIT, seems to me to be very much like Waterloo here in Canada; very practical and less theory. That's very good, but it's too bad that RMIT is not available for exchange through the University of Toronto (where I'm at now).

As to Melbourne Uni. being theory-based, I'm not turned off particularly by that, and seeing as how UofT is also theory-based (for which its reputation is built), it would fit the bill nicely. Now, I don't know if Melbourne Uni.'s program is a *good* theory-based program or just *obsolete* and thus necessarily theory-based (not having to deal with new technologies etc.). I'll have to look into this further; I'd pursue it if it were the former, but not if it were the latter case.

quote:

Master_Yoda Melbourne or Sydney in terms of dance scene are pretty much equal. But Melb is the pick.. "The worlds most livable city".. <-- No shit. In regards for unis. I only know for Melbourne.. Don't goto Melbourne Uni for anything IT. There are only two good faculties in Melboune Uni, Medicine and Law. R.M.I.T Uni, Monash Uni, Swinburne Uni are the ones you goto for all your IT courses.

Unfortunately the list of universities in my original post is not of my choice; those are the universities that are available through the exchange program at UofT. So if it's going to be Melbourne, it's going to have to be Melbourne Uni. I did look into the courses at Sydney, and they look interesting and comprehensive; I couldn't go wrong there.

One little intriguing detail -- in Toronto what we call "subjects" are "courses" in Sydney, and vice versa. Interesting!

quote:

astroboy Go to Melbourne... The best city to live in, in Australia I reckon. I know people who have studied Comp Sci both at Melb Uni and rmit. RMIT is more practical, Melb Uni is more theoretical... Also for some reason Melbourne tends to be considered one of the more prestigious uni's around.

That's 2 counts for Melbourne Uni. being theoretical. If it's anything like UofT, it'll do. Also, I'll have to match up courses (er, subjects) from whatever university I end up going to with those here at UofT. And since UofT is a bit more theoretical from the outset, maybe Melbourne Uni. will provide a better "match".

quote:

The lifestyle is awesome, I'll give it that. But the best place to start is the websites of the universities you're considering attending, You'll be able to find descriptions of all the subjects on offer start here: www.unimelb.edu.au

Thanks, I'll definitely be doing a lot of reading.

quote:

InAcoma I can't comment on the whole study thing, coz IT aint my thing but as for the psy goes... melbourne seems like a pretty good option. The psy scene is not massive, but its quite big There are heaps of outdoor parties happening all of the time and the psy dj's do come out and play this yr there was infected mushroom, astrix and bamboo forest, hallucinogen, fractal glider, benza are playing in november along side others.

"not massive but quite big"? Based on that list I'd say massive! In Toronto, the psy scene is a joke. The last big name that was here (or was supposed to come) was Space Tribe, but he couldn't make it over here due to the massive blackout that happened at the time. Incidentally, is Ollie Wisdom from Melbourne? Melbourne seems to be getting a good treatment of Space Tribe parties from the schedule on their website.

quote:

Beemer sydney just has a more 'worldly' feel to it......i guess if u really wanna immerse urself in one place i'd choose melb, but if that's not ur thing i'd choose syd........

Well Toronto is also supposed to be a "worldly" city, with huge diversity. So a little change would be good.

quote:

eRRaTiK solution: as you have 3rd and 4th year to go (if no fourth you could do a postgrad or masters)... spend one year in each city and sample both =] then again, no matter where you end up you could always organise a trip to the other city during your uni break

Haha great suggestion, but I probably can't do two years due to money issues and also I'd like to do a year more at UofT as there are certain courses that I want/need to take.

quote:

JayKuE it is indeed a livable city, but because of it's relaxed, slow paced kind of lifestyle. on weekdays, melbourne city is virtually asleep already at 10pm. sydney is more worldly in that it is of a faster, busier pace. but alccode, seeing you're from toronto having a rep of a cleaner new york, u'll probably want a contrast. if you've been to vancouver, melbourne is your equivalent in terms of lifestyle.

Yes, you've nailed it right on the head! Getting a taste of a different lifestyle is also what I'm looking for. Especially as I'm a little sick of the rat-race attitude prevalent in the Toronto/New York/urban North American-type city. I'm more fit for a "relaxed, slow paced kind of lifestyle."

--------------

Now, forgive my ignorance, but I found out that at Sydney Uni., the school year starts in March and ends in November (IIRC). Is this true everywhere in Australia (I am assuming yes)? I totally forgot about the whole "reversed seasons" thing! In that case, I can either do my year this upcoming March (2004), or I could go the following year (2005). Actually it would have to be 2005, because it's probably too late to apply now, to leave in a few months. Also, it seems to me that it's too early to study a year abroad now, because I'm only halfway through second year! Hmmm, but there are many senior-level courses at UofT that I definitely want to take, and having my "second and a half" year at an Australian university wouldn't be too terrible in terms of the curriculum, because worldwide I assume the first few years of any computer science program are similar (the fundamentals being the same). I'll have to look into this.

Of course, nothing is decided yet, but I am well on my way of getting an idea of the options etc. Thanks again for everyone's advice.

quote:

Originally posted by Alccode Now, forgive my ignorance, but I found out that at Sydney Uni., the school year starts in March and ends in November (IIRC). Is this true everywhere in Australia (I am assuming yes)?

The Australian school and Uni semesters always start in March and finish in November.

I have heard a few not so nice things of late about Melb Uni, especially from a friend of mine who did her Honours degree there in chemistry. She is starting her PhD next year but decided to go elsewhere.

2c worth
BJeT

quote:

Originally posted by Anomyst Come to Melbourne and learn the "Shuffle" Sydney cant dance!!

melbourne people dress funny... and they smell :P


haha

I have a friend who does IT at Sydney Uni. He says its very theoretical and I know he is very interested in AI and has done courses on AI there. UNSW and sydney are both good universities. Sydney Uni has a new little appartment complex nearby which is students only and a lot of international students stay there, has its own shopping area etc, very nice if you like that kinda thing

The trance scene in Sydney is decent but when it comes to big events, Melbourne *usually* get better internationals, cheaper. The promoters in Sydney are crap.

Sydney has better weather and much better touristy type stuff. and better beaches

Hello Alccode,

Another fellow Canadian here studying in Australia. I'm in Perth however, where the trance scene is quite pathetic, but I just want to give you couple opinions.

Melbourne or Sydney - depends on what kind/type of cities you like. I've been to both, and they're both really nice but I definitely prefer Melbourne over Sydney. I think no matter where you end up, you HAVE TO travel around the east coast (Perth is absolutely gorgeous BUT if you don't have $$$ i guess it's ok not to come over here).

With semesters here in Australia, I had to take half a year off in between my Canadian semester and my Australian semester because everything here starts in late February/early March for my course. However, look into if you can do your courses starting in second semester here (from July-November), and go for a year from July-June (July-November and March-June) instead of March-November. This will save you some time and some universities/departments let you enrol in 2nd semester instead of the first semester.

This will coincide with the north American system better, and you're left with 2.5 months over Christmas/summer to work and travel around!

Anyhow, best of luck & I'm sure you will enjoy Melbourne or Sydney no matter which one you choose!

quote:

Originally posted by Zerotonin I'm not sure what ur on about, but Melbourne is Australia's trance capital.... If you want trance come to Melbourne or Sydney, Perth has one or two headliners a year.

er dickhead? who actually bases where they wanna live on the amount of trance headliners come each year?

you're a tool

quote:

Originally posted by Teknoscaper. er dickhead? who actually bases where they wanna live on the amount of trance headliners come each year? you're a tool

Firstly, I was actually answering Alccode's question.

quote:

Originally posted by Alccode Right now I'm considering Melbourne and Sydney. Basically what I'd like to ask is (a) "where is the trance scene,"

Secondly, I was joking about the headliners.

Thirdly, Fuckin chew me arsehole.

quote:

Originally posted by waXology quote: Originally posted by Anomyst Come to Melbourne and learn the "Shuffle" Sydney cant dance!! melbourne people dress funny... and they smell :P haha

hehe, got back to Canberra on Saturday night and went out. A friend told me I dance like people from Sydney. She reckons in Sydney they all dance on their toes due to being mashed as many people into a small space as possible, and in melbourne the dance only side to side, not back and forth.

Anyway, back on topic. ANU has a pretty damn good reputation amoungst international unis, expecially for Computing Science rather than IT or just programming. (I'm at the Uni of Canberra, which is the other semi-decent uni in Canberra ). They have a strong focus on *nix (Solaris / Linux / ...) and often are quite involved in bleeding edge projects in that area. Canberra is 300 odd km from Sydney and about 600 or 700 from Melbourne so day (or night ) trips are quite easy. You'll probably find that the cost of living in canberra is cheaper than the bigger cities and the people are heaps nicer and will give you more of themselves and help you fit in well better than the Sydney or Melbourne (well I guess the Sydney TAs and Halcyon crew are tops in doing this too, haven't met many Melbourne TAs). The canberra trance scene is still in it's infancy, but there are quite a few up and comers that are pushing it a little further away from the hard trance that most trance nights see.

If you are coming from a larger city, then you will probably hate Canberra (though you may not), but if you come from a little town, it's definitely somewhere you could fall in love with.

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