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-- You must read this!!
You must read this!!
this is sooooo true!, this is a e-mail "Trance-Gate" site got back, regarding the situation with "Black Hole Recordings":
Hello again,
We've read your e-mail with the postings of some of your visitors (linked sites). We can understand their situations, but do not understand the somewhat hostile feelings towards us. Some people talk about not being able to get to our music. Maybe a good reason to the people it may concern, but not to us. It's very simple, if people can't find the time to go to a (on-line) recordstore or don't have the money to buy our music (because maybe they think it's to expensive), they're not worth the music. If people can't buy our records near them, have them ask their local recordstore(s) to import the music they like. Have them go through a little more trouble than downloading our music through the click of a mouse. And if you do not own a recordplayer to play our vinyls, you can just go and buy one.
If we could, we would make our music for free and just give it away to the people that like it, but we simply can't. Just as everybody has to get a job to make a living, we have to make money out of our music to make a living too. We're just (very) lucky that our hobby is our job. If people say they're jealous of that, we'd understand the hostile feelings a bit more too.
Most people have no idea how hard a DJ like Ti�sto has to work to get to where he is now. They just think a DJ parties everyday. The only thing they see is those 2 or 3 or in Ti�sto's case 6 hours (on solo nights) a week (or month) he/she is on the wheels. Boy are they wrong. Not many people have the stamina to do the jobs DJ's do. Work long hours, being away from home and the people they care about. Negotiating record deals, attending recording sessions, doing in-stores and more of that promotional stuff. Spending more hours on airports than he/she could with his/her boy- or girlfriend. Seeing more different hotelbeds in one summer than a normal person would in his whole life. A DJ nowadays earns every EURO he's got. And DJ Ti�sto isn't 'just a DJ' he's a producer as well.
People that think DJ's like Ti�sto earn millions just by DJ-ing around the world a bit are ignorant and have no idea what they're talking about. If they did make that kind of money, I'm sure they'd give away their music freely.
The people that say that they got to know about trance music and producers by downloading the MP3s are liars. The music was there before 99% of those people ever new MP3 existed. They heard the music in their local clubs or radiostations and thought: "Hey let's see if I can find something about that guy or girl on the net". Why did people download the music in the first place? Because they were curious and wanted to know about it.
Mind you, we're not against MP3 and the promotion it does for our music. What we are against is the people that make money of it by distributing it freely. If someone stole your computer for example and sold it, you would not be that happy either.
Thank you for the opportunity you're giving us to discuss this matter in an open manner.
Regards,
Rob Naastepad
Black Hole Recordings
now take this... and push it really hard in your head, and remember it
I don't really agree with him.....when people know the song they will buy it, especially when you are talking about vinyl, cause you can't make the vinyls yourself......I know for sure that the sales will go down because they don't want MP3's from the tracks that they produce on Trance-sites.
example:
you have got decks to spin records on, and you have the money for 1 record to buy on this moment, what will you choose:
What?....
lol, you really think all of the ta's here will really go out and buy the cd - vinyl??
i really dont think so.. there are ppl who just leech, and leech, and leech, you really think they give a damn about how much the artist works??... i really dont think they do, thats why i think everybody should read this, and post their comments here..
no man, how many peeps here have got turntables, I think only 10% of the visitors have them, those 10% are the customers of Black Hole, they are the only persons that can buy that vinyl, when those 10% can't listen to the MP3sthey won't buy that record, they will buy a record which they know from the MP3, not a unknown record from Black Hole
I am never gonna be a customer of Black Hole cause I haven't got turntables to play the vinyls on, a lot of peeps don't have turntables. I think it's dumb to ban the MP3s from the Trance-sites..........
I personally don't listen to mp3's and then go get the vinyl as a result. I usually just listen to vinyls at the record store and decide then if I want it or not....or I hear the song out at a party, find out what it is and then order it.
In regards to cd's....with napster gone it is much harder to find stuff. I will admit that I'd rather just burn live sets and albums than buying them (hell...who wouldn't) But I do understand where the record industry is coming from, and even blackhole for that matter.
I mean it is one thing for big record companies like virgin to bitch and complain about this...even though they still make millions and millions on cd's a year. I can understand where blackhole is coming from 100% since they are smaller and only deal with one genre.
Peace,
Steve
Okay, this guy is not thinking smart !!!!!!!!!!!!! first of all, Mp3 of his albums and tracks are a promotion, if I like the album or compilation, Id most likely give my 40 Dollars worth, he forgot that this albums, in import price cost the hell out of my pocket, his not thinking that most of the people that like his music are also underage wich dont have a job yet, and forgets that parents would go to you and say " I WONT WASTE 40 DOLLARS ON THAT MUSIC , SO FORGET ABOUT IT " . Secondly, " I DID FIND OUT ABOUT DJ TIESTO ON MP3 DOWNLOADING ! ! ! ! " I live in USA , Miami, and this guy says that people get to know the songs on the clubs and radios, his talking as if everyone lived in Holland or something , or around europe, he forgets that in the USA by the time tiesto was around, he was the most unknown DJ then here in the states, he also forgets that not all clubs had that sound, and that many cant GET into clubs, and that Radio stations dont even know what trance is, until lets say Robert Miles and Alice Deejay, kay cee came in, but thats about it .. no TIESTO, so when I really got hooked into the music thats under their REOCORD label, I searched for anything related to trance, and thats how I found out about tiesto, wich was live at Innercity !!!!
So I disagree in big part .. and may agree on some part ( his Job maybe ) but he doesnt understand the rest.. think about it , when you searched for trance on Napster, there was TIESTO always on the 1st 100 results, and people that had no exposure to the music trance, and one day, they liked it, searched for music under that word, they see TIESTO, they download, guess what !! they liked it and is most likely that this people are the ones that got TIESTO into the states !!!!
Here's my opinion on this matter...
I do have deckz and I do buy, on average, 20 records a month.
Out of the 20, I would say half of em are from listening to the mp3 versions first and than plonkin down the $$$ for the record.
Blackhole, from my understanding, doesn't want their ALBUMS distributed, which is clearly understandable. In the letter, they had also mentioned sites making a profit from their music. The last I saw, sites weren't making a profit off of their mp3s. One can argue that people visit a particular site solely for any Blackhole Record mp3z it may have. Too bad that's no where close to the truth.
Personally, I think Blackhole has a right to stand up for their music being distributed freely in mp3 form, but they are targetting the wrong place. Bring down one site, there are 5 others to take its place. Blah, that's all for now 
| quote: |
| Originally posted by SYNthSRI Personally, I think Blackhole has a right to stand up for their music being distributed freely in mp3 form, but they are targetting the wrong place. Bring down one site, there are 5 others to take its place. Blah, that's all for now |
Well... My opion.
It don't have turn tables so I can't afford vinyl's. (and it is very dificult to put a vinyl in your cd-player!!!)
So I'll won't buy those.
Here in Holland, you spend 44 guilders on a cd (that is arround 20 us dollar, something like that). I think that is way to high.
Here in Holland a tv show investigated on why are the prices of a cd so high. They found out, because of every distributers has to make money on it that is why the prices rise. Oke, I can live with that. But they also found out that atleast half of the distributers are not needed.
AND that the distributers are asking way to high prices. Which reffers that the price of a cd I have to buy rises big-time!!
The result of that program was that they could seld the cd's for half the price
HALF.. the *^#&*($ in other words they are ripping you off.
And that is why I don't much cd's.
If the cd's where the allot cheaper I would buy them, no doubt about it. But with these prices, no way. I can't afford it.
So then there is one option. download it, or sit by the radio and when that tune is comming is record it with your casset deck.
I prefer the first one!!
Sandman
let us all buy turntables and use up all the space we have at home for our records and we'll walk around with our turntable by our side with some headphones and our fav. record that we'd just purchased, spinning........" hey jimmy, do you want to flip the record when you get up for another beer "? WTF.....nuff said...
Re: You must read this!!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DJ-Energy What we are against is the people that make money of it by distributing it freely. |
I don't recycle, I know I should but I just never really do. If somebody debated recycling with me I'd have to concede "yeah, I know it's wrong...."
I think I agree with one of the earlier posts; I don't have decks but if I did I'd be buying records which I knew over those I didn't. I think that as long as nobody's making any money from distributing their stuff they've got nothing to complain about. I'd bet my life savings that when they were kids they swapped black cassettes and copied each others tunes. What's the differnce? Maybe the mp3-swapping scene will produce another Tiesto or PVD, or even Black Hole's next Managing Director.
And also, am I not indirectly supporting Tiesto when I pay �15 a time to see him play? The fees come from somewhere.
I agree with almost everyone here except for the guy that started this thread (does he WORK for black hole?)
I don't know why everyone thinks that people are downloading these songs and selling them to everyone.... who is doing this? I know almost 100 people that download music off the internet, and its all for themselves. I know why black hole is saying that, is because its the only way they can nail this shut.... it isn't illegal for people to "share" mp3's (as long as there is no payment involved).
I have tables. I listen to mp3's. If i like the mp3, i buy the vinyl. I sure as hell would NOT buy the vinyl if i haven't heard it. There are no good record stores around me, so i can't just "listen" to black hole records. I'd have to order them over the internet. same goes with his CD's. But i don't like all his work, thats why i don't buy the CD's. Its not because i have them on mp3 instead, its because i dont like EVERY SINGLE thing he's done.
And who the FUCK is this record exec. guy in the letter telling us "if you can't afford the CD, then you are not WORTH the music"???? Who the hell do these guys think they are? FUCK black hole, thats what i say. and they say "Go buy yourself some record players and then buy the vinyl"... man these are some cocky bastards.
If this letter is real, and from black hole, then i can promise that Black Hole Records is in no danger of doing business with me ever again....
-a very surprised ABT-
Someone joked in the other thread about BHR that they had been taken over by Lars Ulrich, maybe that joke was nearer to the truth with the attitude BHR is taking . . .
I dont know how BIG they think they are to cut off such a promotion source as MP3.
Sure there are many Ppl out there who will Just download the MP3 and be done with it but like someone said
He lives in the USA and local clubs play RAP, and stuff like that and NOT Trance.
How will ppl like him hear of trance if it was not for the likes of websites like TA and trancegate etc etc ? ?
Blik made a good point, if he has a certain amount of money and he has the choice of buying a Vinyl, one of an MP3 he has heard and liked or a BHR vinyl that he has not heard, the money goes on the vinyl he has heard cos of the MP3, cos he knows it wont be wasted money !
This also applies to the USA, say u want to ask your local record shop to import a $45 CD ? what one is it going to be ? one u know and like and have already heard on MP3 or one u dont know and risk wasting $45 on ?
U already know the answer to that one, the one u heard on MP3 !
Think of it this way . . How many Sales have they made to the USA cos of imports of CDS that ppl have already heard on MP3 ?
a lot more than if MP3 did not exist . . .
If Anything MP3 promotes buying of CD and Vinyl.
for all those on 56k dial up's u know how long it takes to download an average MP3 so to DL a whole album would take ages.
u DL a few tracks from the album and then u go out and buy the album.
Chalking up another sale for the label !
My GF (Wicked Red) and I download MP3, we have possibly 30,000 MP3's
and we also own the same amount of vinyl and CD's mainly due to wanting the original's of the MP3's we have
I buy personally up to 100 Vinyl's and CD's a month !
I bought 3 today including Da Hool - meet her at the love parade.
i had that track ages ago on MP3. but Fergie got another sale cos i heard the track on MP3 !
All in all i think the labels fail to see the whole picture here.
MP3 creates sales as well as take some away so on the whole it balances out.
and whats the differnce between MP3 and pirateing CD's ?
PPL Download MP3 for their own enjoyment, we dont sell it on
PPL who pirate CD's do it for the money and they are the one's that should be targeted by the labels, not those of us that DL MP3 !
Peace Long Live MP3 !
1. i dont work for BHR
2. i posted this cause i wanted to know your opinion about this
and i dont wanna start fightin with ya.....
every one has his own mind... let him think what he wants
email that guy back.
and explain to him that, how the FUCK ARE WE SUPPOSED TO ORDER BLACK HOLE RECORDS IF WE DONT KNOW ANY OF THE SONGS? HENCE MP3.
i hear a good mp3, i dont leave it on my comp and get all dandy.
i go to my record store and i order the fucking record.
my opinion-
i think they are concerned more with people downloading cd's
some sites do make money (with banner ads, etc)
download livesets and you'll find plenty of good tracks.
support black hole! they're good people.
ejumbo
the guy from blackhole said "if people dont have the money to go out and buy the vinyl, they arent worth the music". i think thats a very stupid thing to say. music is supposed to influence everyone. the rich, the poor, and the middle class. how can he say someone who is poor isnt worth the music? anyone can love trance, or any other genre for that matter. i for one live in the states, where it is very very hard to hear a trance tune on the radio, non the less get the fucking vinyl in the store. if i had access i would buy it, sure. why would i pay $50 for them to import me a fucking vinyl when i dont even know what it sounds like? very very stupid. the only way i would buy it is if i heard it before. chances are i wouldnt have heard it because i dont have access to the trance tune on the radio...and if they took their mp3's offline, i wouldnt be able to hear that either.
I wouldn't even know that a label called Black Hole Recordings existed if it wasn't for mp3. If MP3 didn't exist, I'll bet BHR would be out of business by now... It's one thing for popular north american acts like metallica to be against mp3, but unknown artists on a label unknown to the western hemisphere owe their success to mp3.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DJ-Energy What?.... lol, you really think all of the ta's here will really go out and buy the cd - vinyl?? i really dont think so.. there are ppl who just leech, and leech, and leech, you really think they give a damn about how much the artist works??... i really dont think they do, thats why i think everybody should read this, and post their comments here.. |
one of these mp3 or buying the real thing debates.heheh ..if it weren't for mp3 i wouldnt have known trance, i live in cali and i dont do those rave or club stuff so i only listened to crap like Rap and Pop. When mp3s came popular i found out REAL music ..and REAL trance not some cheese crap they play on the radio. Or all that weird rave stuff ....I buy cds too anyways, for example: vorsprung dyk technik, cost my 7.50 an hour ass 60 bucks....BTW i hate music stores and video stores, oh man some old dvds are 30 bucks!!!?!?? wtf is that...
errr I have been listening to trance for over a year now. I have alomst every single song by dj tiesto in my computer, but i only have SUMMERBREEZE (the only US release). We can support DJ TIESTO in various ways. Paying 35 dollars for a fuckin import cd is only a waste of money cuz TIESTO only got like 5 dollars profit. I predict tiesto will become very popular in two years or so (in USA) so we can directly support him by then.
mp3 rulez
Well another topic is.... Can i get the Black Hole releases from my record store?? In Australia we get shit real real late... =( Example i asked for "DJ Quicksilver - Ameno" on vinyl and the guy didnt even know he had released it or never heard about it... so if im gonna wait say a year or however long it is, i'd rather just d/l the MP3... i do not sell it, its for personel use.. which dont make a difference i know, but the record company should do sumfin about releasing world wide quicker... 
Also i think we do give the record companies enough of our money... and yes CD/Vinyl Prices are too high...
Peace
BHR is making such a HUUUGE misstake hear.....this makes me quite freekin MAAD
ARGH! Ill take myself for example... Fisrt trancy like album i bought was Robert Miles - Children...i liked it but i didnt know there was a whole mucis genre like it.....but then....i tihnk it was last summer or earlier...my friend had found this great LOOOONG track....ok so i go home to him.....DJ Tiesto hmmm.....he had found him on napster..well ok.....Trance 2000....hmmmm......And we listen and its fucking awesome....So now we start DL more realases of him.....And they are all great....how cool!!!! Ok a this time we are not intersested in buying records but 2 or 3 months later when we had DLd some magik albums from the internet i go and i see on of them in the store....what do i think? I think:
"Wow, it would be great to have the album cause it rulz!"
All because of the Mp3....i would never even have thought about buying Tiesto albums if not because of Mp3...And my friends have bought albums to....And i say it again...this saturday im going ffrom sweden to Holland...straight into Breda and to the BHR shop JUST and ONLY to buy records i want that i have heard on Mp3....that i want for my collection.......im gonna spend 200$ on that place... im gonna list some CDs i bought just because of Mp3....
InTranceWeTrust 5
InTranceweTrust Xtra
Magik 4
ForbiddenParadise 9
TranceLife (3 cds)
TranceLife 2k (3 cds)
21s century trance 2 (3 cds)
TranceFormation 2000
thats some of them and im 16.....imagine how much they will make of me if i stick to trance all my life? Im gonna mail them straigt away...
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