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Posted by roosh on Nov-25-2003 14:02:

How do you mix?!

For the past 7 weeks I've been trying to beatmatch and now I get most songs really close... they may seperate a bit after 30 seconds, but I'm improving that. On my computer speakers the beats sound matched, but in my headphones I can tell when they are off.

I understand that I mix in phrase, no problem with that either.

I'm doing a set for some of my friends that are not addicted to trance (yet) so I did the first run-through last night. I noticed that even if I get the beats aligned perfectly (I know it's perfect because moving the jog wheel forward a little or back a little will make it sound worse) I can still hear the other bass line come in, and it doesn't sound that great. Also sometimes the beats sound like they cancel out, and they produce a weird low-volume clicking boom. I haven't touched the EQ yet... is that my answer?

When doing a set, do you wait for the outro's at the end of the song? I get impatient so I mix it in a bit earlier, but then the songs clash sometimes.

Thanks.

Here's the set I was doing for my friends.. mostly older, vocal tracks:

1 solar stone - solarcoaster
2 iio - rapture (riva remix)
3 4 strings - into the night
4 marc et claude - tremble (riva remix)
5 way out west - mindcircus (g&d remix)
6 dnote - shed my skin (airwave remix)
7 atlantis vs avatar - fiji (lange remix)
8 coast 2 coast - home
9 solar stone - speak in sympathy (vocal mix)
10 solid sessions - janeiro (pronti and kalmani remix)

Posted by erix on Nov-25-2003 15:22:

depends on the songs obviously !
but when mixing i ALWAYS use the eqs. it usually souds a bit odd if you just throw over the crossfader...
as for converting non-trance friends... i can tell you that no matter how cheesy you make a set it will probably not work...

//erix

Posted by roosh on Nov-25-2003 15:37:

not so much converting, but they have showed interest.

are you calling my set cheesy?

Posted by CosmoKid on Nov-25-2003 16:44:

i have to agree. it sounds like you are not usin your EQs to mix the songs in. turn the bass down on the song you are mixing in to start. then every 4 beats or so turn up the bass on the song you are mixing in and turn down the bass of the one you are mixing out.

it should sound like the bass never gets louder and then lower again.

and yes there are a few velveetas in your set list. no big deal though. play what you like.

Posted by Zack Roth on Nov-25-2003 20:17:

if you hear the beats go from loud, to cancelling each other out, and then back to loud again...the beats are not matched up. They are off a little. I always beatmatch using that phased sound. I try to make sure that the beats stay phased teh whole time, so I know it's on. But it sounds like you're using a cd player, one that probably has a pitch step of .1%...you're probably not going ot get two beats matched up perfectly, just because you're dealing with digital pitch step increments....which aren't very precise compared to what analog pitch step is...infinite....you're going to have to use your jog dial to keep nudging teh beats back on track every so often...maybe every 8-16 bars or so depending on the length of your mix, or how close your pitch step allows you to get to the live songs beat.

Posted by gcrasher on Nov-25-2003 20:52:

In alot of trance you'll have an "outro" in the middle of the song before it builds back up, so try mixing out during that. But if you miss it and the song is building back up again, then I'd wait till the end, especially with these melodic/vocal style you listed. Usually won't sound good to overlap when all the main elements in both tracks are playing, you sort of have to have the new track introducing elements as the old one is taking them out, with that style at least. Unless they work together harmonically then you can overlap certain parts for longer but not with any 2 records, thats usually why you see djs change their mind about a record sometimes after they hear it mixed in the phones.

Posted by Scottaculous on Nov-25-2003 20:59:

When you have two tracks with very dominant melodies try killing some high EQ before you mix it in. Then play it by ear and slowly switch high EQs between incoming and outgoing tracks.

Posted by Boomer187 on Nov-25-2003 21:52:

I am making a mix now where I have a track playing with PVD's connected, I start it right about teh first break down really early on. I then let it play, I think they both stay together for about 5-6 mins. it sounds cool I think, but it sucks noticing the little differences in speed which always ultimately occur. Plus it sucks cause I am already a a few phases into the song when I first start beat matching the tow so I leave little time for myself.

anyways, I usually keep the crossfader in the middle and use the channel volume to fade in or out. that is usually with teh bass cut out completely. then i fade teh bass in. but sometimes I slowly add in teh bass with highs, depends on the feeling of the song.

Posted by Shad0wmaster on Nov-25-2003 23:01:

I start beatmatching and mixing out about a minute to a minute and a half before the end of the track. I find that gives me plenty of time to mix the next track in nicely. (If you're planning to mix during an "outro" in the middle of the track, try starting the beatmatching and mix-out immediately after the breakdown, generally that seems to align the songs so that they don't end up clashing).

And yeah, I agree with pretty much everything everybody else said...start with no bass on the track you're mixing in, and gradually fade it in until you can sort of hear it underneath the bass of the track that you're mixing out of...then when some big cymbal clash or sweeping effect comes in, switch the basslines and then fade the first bassline out. For me, that technique never fails (Another classy thing to try is dropping all the bass out of the mix completely for a couple of beats, and then bringing the new bassline in full-force. It can sound really cool but don't overuse it)

edit:

quote:

Also sometimes the beats sound like they cancel out, and they produce a weird low-volume clicking boom.

I know exactly what you mean...I think this is usually because of the actual sound of the kick that's being used...sometimes when they're aligned *too* perfectly they'll sound like they're muffled or muted. When that happens, try nudging the beats of the song you're mixing in forward by just a _tiny_ bit so that it's leading the first track by just a fraction of a second. That might help to make the beats sound nice and booming again

Posted by Nemesis44 on Nov-26-2003 00:44:

That phasing sound is the wave forms of Kick drums cancelling each other out. This can be dealt with by using the EQs as people have already said.

Something you will probably need to do is to learn a little more about the different oportunities that a track gives you to mix. You seem to play the more structured trance as opposed to the Sasha/Digweed prog house which a lot of people play (Not necessarilly in this thread) so you have slighltly different rules to play by (Same rules as me).
As mentioned in a previous post there are some good places in the middle of tracks if you really can't wait, or you feel that the second break doesn't give the song anything.

Someone also mentioned harmonic mixing. This would open up your mixing like nothing else but I would probably suggest that you get a little more comfortable with placements and beat matching before taking that on.
The harmony or key of a track in realation to another is what will truly make it sound like a choir of angels or the unwiped arse of satan depending on if you get it wrong or right.

You mentioned basslines. If you records are in harmony the basslines will usually complement each other and give the mix something totally new, but if they are out you can try and fudge the mix by using the EQ but in the long run it is better to learn harmonic stuff.

Boomer made a good point too. Basically learn to DJ without the fader, it basically gives you more control over the mix and can also help with the phasing effect if you tweak the upfaders on the tracks. Set one slightly lower to begin with and change over (That's if your mixer doesn't have EQs).

If you want an example of what a harmonic mix would sound like try mixing Ron Van Den Beuken - 'Timeless' (RVDB Remix) into David Forbes - 'Sympatico' (Original). These tracks match in both key and style and are real fun to play around with. Works really well on the dancefloor.

Best of luck
Nem

Posted by neoh on Nov-27-2003 21:43:

Posted by rainbow_marble on Nov-28-2003 00:53:

sorry i didnt feel like reading all the other posts other than the 1st, but you MUST use EQ's

Posted by Nemesis44 on Nov-28-2003 01:25:

quote:
Originally posted by Scottaculous
When you have two tracks with very dominant melodies try killing some high EQ before you mix it in. Then play it by ear and slowly switch high EQs between incoming and outgoing tracks.

Hmmm.. Not 100% sure I agree with you on all counts. I agree that you must EQ to make the mix sound good. But on the same count, if you mix in a place where you have to kill the melody with the EQs it's probably the wrong place to do it. (When you say melody I'm thinking lead, so please forgive me if I missunderstood you).

Cheers
Nem