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-- European Officials Refuse to Release Anti-Semitism Report


Posted by Flotser on Nov-30-2003 00:04:

European Officials Refuse to Release Anti-Semitism Report

here is the link to BBC News
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3240482.stm

what they have to hide?


Posted by imokruok on Nov-30-2003 00:50:

From another article on the subject:

LONDON - A German sociologist who led an unprecendented, comprehensive research study on the causes of anti-Semitism in Europe, has charged that an "overly-politically correct" European Union, which commissioned the research, "buried" the report for fear that it could spark civil war.

The report on anti-Semitism in Europe was shelved by the EU's racism watchdog after it found that Muslims and pro-Palestinian groups were behind many of the incidents, the London-based Financial Times reported last week.


This just about says it all, because there's no reason that the study shouldn't be released. Who exactly did the Europeans think were committing anti-Semitic acts? The Jews?

They got a result they didn't like, and they're worried about backlash. Not about knowledge, research, or the pursuit of the truth.

To be quite honest, if I were a European politician, I would worry about backlash. Pim Fortuyn was the only politician to seriously address immigration, and he was brutally murdered by a crazed leftist. But this is not a reason to embargo an entire study.

Living in Paris for about 6 months, I saw first-hand the complete disdain that the immigrant Muslim population has for the West, Christians, and Jews. The fact that there has been such an increase in anti-Semitism is a testament to the failure to integrate these immigrants into Western society.

It's about time the EU stopped ignoring the issue.

--If you want a good read of what I saw first-hand, this article does a really good job: http://www.city-journal.org/html/12...barbarians.html


Posted by Renegade on Nov-30-2003 06:43:

There's been a bit of a kerfuffle about anti-semitism in Europe recently. I read this in the paper a few days ago:

quote:
Sixty years after the Holocaust, European Jews and Israelis are increasingly wondering if Europe is being sucked into the worst wave of anti-Semitism since World War II.

In the past few weeks, a German MP was forced to resign after saying that Jews were responsible for Soviet atrocities, and the commander of the German army's special forces was sacked for agreeing with him.

Then Greek composer Mikis Theodorakis said that Jews were at the root of all evil and a Jewish school in Paris was fire-bombed.

Israelis felt their fears were confirmed by an opinion poll of EU citizens that placed Israel as the greatest danger to peace - ahead of North Korea or Iran.


http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2...9825835317.html

Also, according to the article you presented, it seems that France has the biggest problem with "anti-semitic" sentiment but the number of racially motivated crimes against Jews have dropped sharply this year:

quote:
ANTI-SEMITIC ATTACKS IN FRANCE
Jan-Aug 2002: 647
Jan-Aug 2003: 247


Is the problem being blown out of proportion?

I don't know why the EU would try to censor a report about anti-semitism. I would suggest it would have more to do with the fact that "the report was below quality standards" than because there is implicit support for anti-semitism amongst European leaders, or anything like that.


Posted by Magnetonium on Nov-30-2003 12:20:

I am not Jewish, ... andd I don't have any Jewish connections or anything , but .. When will this anti-semitism end??? Jewish people have been persecuted for thousands of years ... Just because Jews are often well-educated and usually are able to get better jobs than others? Nuff said. Those others should develop better schools and traditional values to overcome the strong Jewish culture. That would be a better way to beat them. Destroying the minds that contribute to improving our society would only bring more anarchy, and is that what those discriminative people want???

Anyways, it's in the human nature to be jealous of other people who are doing better than you I guess ...

This post has no relevance to the current/previous middle eastern conflicts, ok!


Posted by Psionic on Nov-30-2003 15:39:

quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium
I am not Jewish, ... andd I don't have any Jewish connections or anything , but .. When will this anti-semitism end??? Jewish people have been persecuted for thousands of years ... Just because Jews are often well-educated and usually are able to get better jobs than others? Nuff said. Those others should develop better schools and traditional values to overcome the strong Jewish culture. That would be a better way to beat them. Destroying the minds that contribute to improving our society would only bring more anarchy, and is that what those discriminative people want???

Anyways, it's in the human nature to be jealous of other people who are doing better than you I guess ...

This post has no relevance to the current/previous middle eastern conflicts, ok!


Considering I am Jewish, I praise your comments and see you truly do understand the predicament the Jewish population has been in for thousands of years.


Posted by cfyoung4 on Nov-30-2003 16:44:

Well, France has a very large Arab community. I believe more than 10 percent of the population is comprised of Arabs. Could the censoring of this report be a result of France trying to placate the Arab opinion within the country so as not to cause dissention? Moreover, I read--I'll have to find the source again and post it here--that France said the releasing of this report on anti-Semitism would be too divisive and they wouldn't want to stir up anger and resentment with its release; hence, they suppressed it. Or rather, they aided in its suppression along with others in the EU. Furthermore, French politicians are becoming increasingly aware of the political power Arabs wield and it would be counter-productive for a politician to start pointing fingers at them. I am not saying by any means that Arabs are leading the re-establishment of the anti-Semitic base in Europe. However, rightly or wrongly, the cultural tendency is to think of them--due to the Israeli/Palestinian issue--as having a hand in this form of hatred. That said, I am very well aware that a large percentage of these crimes are committed by "Westerner" Europeans and not Arab Europeans. I'm just positing one possibility why this report would be suppressed. Lastly, I would just say it's wrong to give the EU a pass on this. Any form of hatred against a group of people needs to be rooted out because such resentments will only fester in time and be the undoing of a collective body, like the EU, that prides itself on diversity and fairness. I am surprised how people in the international community are willing to let this slip by without comment. Were the report one of anti-Arab activities in the US and it was supressed, I can just hear the outrage that would rise up over such a supression. No one would suggest it was being supressed due to a sub-par report that had inaccuracies in it. No one would give the US a pass on this. It would be deemed a "Government cover-up" and evidence that real problems exist in the U.S. Well, I'm sorry to say, real problems likewise exist in the EU. Let's just deal with them and get back to the business of the day. Don't hide them away in a corner. Resolve the issue, don't ignore it.


Posted by imokruok on Nov-30-2003 16:52:

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade

Is the problem being blown out of proportion?


Here's some more information on that, from a recent article in the Weekly Standard entitled "The Decline of France."

Tariq Ramadan raised questions at the European Social Forum about the "soft Islam of Turkey." It was bad timing. His remarks came only hours before al Qaeda set off two bombs in front of an Istanbul synagogue. On the same night in Gagny, north of Paris, a mammoth fire destroyed the Merkaz Hatorah Jewish day school.

It was striking how thoroughly the two events were twinned in the minds of most French people, and President Chirac reacted swiftly. He called a meeting of Jewish representatives at the Elys�e Palace, where, "solemnly, in the name of the nation," he stated that "when one attacks a Jew in France, it is all of France one attacks." Clearly Chirac feared a repeat of April 2002, when such acts were occurring at the rate of several per day. If anti-Jewish aggression has abated since then, it has never stopped.

In the first 10 months of 2002 there were 184 such incidents, versus 96 this year; over the same period, anti-Semitic threats fell from 685 to 295. But a representative of the CRIF (the council of Jewish institutions in France) told Le Monde that the decline in vandalism reflects only a heightened vigilance over Jewish sites. Aggression and insults are now part of the fabric of daily life, according to Jews who live in metropolitan Paris, even if they take the form of harassment rather than outright violence.

The case of Rabbi Michel Serfaty is instructive. It made headlines when Serfaty was knocked down and punched in the face by anti-Semitic youths in Essonne on October 19. But it is also worth knowing that Serfaty had previously been spit on while walking to synagogue.

Shortly after the meeting with Chirac, Joseph Sitruk, the chief rabbi of France, pled with his community not to wear yarmulkes in public. "The chief rabbi has always said that head covering is an important commandment," one of Sitruk's aides told the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz. But "in the current climate, there is no point waving a red flag in public places." Sitruk suggested that France's Jews wear baseball caps instead.


Posted by Flotser on Nov-30-2003 17:39:

quote:
Originally posted by cfyoung4
Well, France has a very large Arab community. I believe more than 10 percent of the population is comprised of Arabs. Could the censoring of this report be a result of France trying to placate the Arab opinion within the country so as not to cause dissention? Moreover, I read--I'll have to find the source again and post it here--that France said the releasing of this report on anti-Semitism would be too divisive and they wouldn't want to stir up anger and resentment with its release; hence, they suppressed it. Or rather, they aided in its suppression along with others in the EU. Furthermore, French politicians are becoming increasingly aware of the political power Arabs wield and it would be counter-productive for a politician to start pointing fingers at them. I am not saying by any means that Arabs are leading the re-establishment of the anti-Semitic base in Europe. However, rightly or wrongly, the cultural tendency is to think of them--due to the Israeli/Palestinian issue--as having a hand in this form of hatred. That said, I am very well aware that a large percentage of these crimes are committed by "Westerner" Europeans and not Arab Europeans. I'm just positing one possibility why this report would be suppressed. Lastly, I would just say it's wrong to give the EU a pass on this. Any form of hatred against a group of people needs to be rooted out because such resentments will only fester in time and be the undoing of a collective body, like the EU, that prides itself on diversity and fairness. I am surprised how people in the international community are willing to let this slip by without comment. Were the report one of anti-Arab activities in the US and it was supressed, I can just hear the outrage that would rise up over such a supression. No one would suggest it was being supressed due to a sub-par report that had inaccuracies in it. No one would give the US a pass on this. It would be deemed a "Government cover-up" and evidence that real problems exist in the U.S. Well, I'm sorry to say, real problems likewise exist in the EU. Let's just deal with them and get back to the business of the day. Don't hide them away in a corner. Resolve the issue, don't ignore it.


Exactly, well said!

quote:
Originally posted by imokruok
Shortly after the meeting with Chirac, Joseph Sitruk, the chief rabbi of France, pled with his community not to wear yarmulkes in public. "The chief rabbi has always said that head covering is an important commandment," one of Sitruk's aides told the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz. But "in the current climate, there is no point waving a red flag in public places." Sitruk suggested that France's Jews wear baseball caps instead.
[/I]


its horrible!
how can a continent - that great parts of it are\were directly responsible for the Hollocust that happend only 60 years, can allow this to happen??


Posted by Yoepus on Nov-30-2003 17:51:

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade
Also, according to the article you presented, it seems that France has the biggest problem with "anti-semitic" sentiment but the number of racially motivated crimes against Jews have dropped sharply this year:

ANTI-SEMITIC ATTACKS IN FRANCE
Jan-Aug 2002: 647
Jan-Aug 2003: 247

Is the problem being blown out of proportion?


I don't think so, I think it might even be the opposite.
As the weekly standard article indicated the continuing harrasement and threatening of Jews.

Tell me, if you heard the Pope annouce that in all of France Christans should not wear the cross as it would endager their lives would you not be concerened?

This is a Rabbi, and if you know the type they do not go lightly to the change of tradition. I remember similar instances like this in Europe of this hatered, they were taught to me (alone apparently and not the Europeans) in my history class, but those instances of hatered were all prior to WWII.

And I do feel European society is quiet anti-semetic, as we do not see at all any such attitudes of feelings to arabs or muslims in Europe, I have not heard of one mosque or muslims school arsoned.

quote:
I don't know why the EU would try to censor a report about anti-semitism. I would suggest it would have more to do with the fact that "the report was below quality standards" than because there is implicit support for anti-semitism amongst European leaders, or anything like that.


Well there are several reasons they would try to do this; Political Correctness, and winning Political votes are just two of the easier ones to point out.
However, why then was the report below quality standards? why don't they tell us this information at least - according to the article the only point they state is that it was for the period of "may-june" and therefore unrepersentative. Ok so it was for that period so what? Say it was for the period, thats not a fallacy of quality - unless the author did a bad report scholarly then releasing a report on anti semitism for "May June 2002" is not below quality standards. People should be wise enough to understand it is not repersentative as a whole, and that the problem might be better or worse and that perhaps a longer term and more intense study needs to be made.
For this reason alone right now I am tending to side with the scientist who believes this was done completely for political reasons. Unless they cite me specific reaons why it was "below quality standards" than I will more likely come to agreement with the offical side.

I will add one point however, that since it was an EU report one shoudl specualte that the offical side has no interest in the regards of say France, or the politics of just one country. The EU is quiet isolated from daily and interal European politics. The counterpoint to this might be raised by the fact that this Buearu is small and insignificant and that high ups at a French government probably could have exerted some pressure onto it.


Posted by imokruok on Nov-30-2003 17:56:

quote:
Originally posted by Flotser
its horrible!
how can a continent - that great parts of it are\were directly responsible for the Hollocust that happend only 60 years, can allow this to happen??


There is an increasing problem with people being able to distinguish between right and wrong.

For much of France, the problem is not that Arabs are committing violence against Jews. Mostly left-wing anti-Zionists who still permeate government ranks seem to have this the idea that Arab culture in France cannot be changed. So the problem then becomes Jews, because they are the reason the Arabs are committing violence. For the French, it is easy to deal with the Jews, because they are a small percentage of the population. The Arab population is now over 10%.

In the 1940's, it was the same problem. But instead of Arabs, it was the occupation government perpetuating the violence, because the Jews were "causing problems." 750,000 Jews were thus shipped away to Germany, never to return.

The population trends are clear. It is only going to get worse. And it's why Jews are leaving France in record numbers, to go to Israel or the USA.

(One side-note: I know several French Jews who voted for Jean-Marie Le Pen in the last election, despite his favorable comments towards Hitler. They were willing to put up with the anti-Semitism, because Le Pen was an ardent French nationalist. He would have seriously curtailed immigration, and would have actually tried to police the immigrant community.)


Posted by Magnetonium on Nov-30-2003 18:29:

quote:
Originally posted by Galapidate
Considering I am Jewish, I praise your comments and see you truly do understand the predicament the Jewish population has been in for thousands of years.

I know quite enough info on the main religious institutions around the world ... personally, I don't really like any Jews that I met, cause they didn't trust non-Jewish people and weren't too nice or opening.However, none have done anything incriminating or inappropriate towards me, so I am fine with that. I understand their situation, and that they can only trust other Jews.
Personally, no offense to anyone, I think that Muslims are the group that poses severe danger to the worst peace today. Surely Israelis are doing a lot of nasty things to Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza that would make any young Jewish woman 60 years ago faint in disbelief, back when they were treated similarly ... and Palestinians who hate Jewish people and do a lot of nasty things themselves, will never find peace with Jews. But Islam, as a religion, is a very dangerous fanatical force that can one day take over our world and turn in into some deep religious messed-up place, the way the things are going ... Heck, if Koran say that if a Moslem dies killing an enemy, and by so he'd go to heaven, how insane is that?? If you have noticed, the communities that have focused strongly on religion have fallen behind in technology and education, spending great portions of their lives with religion. What kind of life is that? Life is given to a person once in a lifetime, and he's got to make the best of it, not praying to some icon twice a day or sacrificing bulls or whatever ....

Religion should only be learned, and used as a reference in a person's daily routines, as there are a lot of good deeds religion can teach a person in life. (Christianity)


Posted by cfyoung4 on Nov-30-2003 19:09:

quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus
The EU is quiet isolated from daily and interal European politics. The counterpoint to this might be raised by the fact that this Buearu is small and insignificant and that high ups at a French government probably could have exerted some pressure onto it.


I take your point Yoepus, but I would suggest there is a definite possibility France leverages an uncommon amount of power and control within the EU. While this does not concern me much because I am not a European citizen, I think it would be most troubling if I were a member of the European Community living in a country other than France or perhaps Germany, which also claims distinctive power. In a conglomeration of nation states, all of which are supposedly equal in rank, France appears to view itself as First Among Equals. That's not a criticism, merely an observation. However, this becomes a problem once policy needs to be enforced. Take the instance of a nation's deficits within the EU. Recently, both France and Germany admitted they are breaking the EU rules which state that nations must not create a budget deficit of more than 3 percent of the gross domestic product per year. While some within the EU were upset about France and Germany's willingness to bypass these rules, for the most part, EU members turned a blind eye on the situation and voted not to put sanctions on the two, thereby allowing France and Germany to continue running at a deficit for the 4th year in a row. Now, that's fine and they should be allowed to fix their economies, etc. But earlier this year, France was insistant about expressing its concerns of having certain eastern European countries joining the EU because they didn't want budget deficits to affect the strength of the European economy. So my question is, why is it okay if France does it, but not okay if...say...Poland does it? That, to me, smacks of unfairness considering all are equal within the EU. Anyway, I just feel that there is a definite slant in the European Union and it tilts toward France. That is why I feel France can "influence" certain outcomes such as the release of this report. But that's just my opinion. This is probably why I hear a lot of my European friends utter the familiar quote in relation to the EU, "France is the rider and Germany is the horse," meaning France holds the intellectual power to make things happen and Germany is the industrialized strength that enables France to achieve its desires.


Posted by trancaholic on Nov-30-2003 19:45:

quote:
Originally posted by cfyoung4
I take your point Yoepus, but I would suggest there is a definite possibility that France leverages an uncommon amount of power and control within the EU. While this does not concern me much because I am not a European citizen, I think it would be most troubling if I were a member of the European Community living in a country other than France or perhaps Germany, which also claims distinctive power. In a conglomeration of nation states, all of which are supposedly equal in rank, France appears to view itself as First Among Equals. That's not a criticism, merely an observation. However, this becomes a problem once policy needs to be enforced. Take the instance of a nation's deficits within the EU. Recently, both France and Germany admitted they are breaking the EU rules which state that nations must not create a budget deficit of more than 3 percent of the gross domestic product per year. While some within the EU were upset about France and Germany's willingness to bypass these rules, for the most part, EU members turned a blind eye on the situation and voted not to put sanctions on the two, thereby allowing France and Germany to continue running at a deficit for the 4th year in a row. Now, that's fine and they should be allowed to fix their economies, etc. But earlier this year, France was insistant about expressing its concerns of having certain eastern European countries joining the EU because they didn't want budget deficits to affect the strength of the European economy. So my question is, why is it okay if France does it, but not okay if...say...Poland does it? That, to me, smacks of unfairness considering all are equal within the EU. Anyway, I just feel that there is a definite slant in the European Union and it tilts toward France. That is why I feel France can "influence" certain outcomes such as the release of this report. But that's just my opinion.


I was planning on writing a longer piece of text to answer Renegade's "Blown out of proportion"-question, but you managed to say most of what I have to say - and you are not even European. I'm quite impressed that someone from abroad holds such insight into EU-politics!

Well, I am European, and I am not very fond of the politics put forth by France lately. When I speak to frenchmen in my job I find them quite polite and easy going, but their politicians do seem to hold an arrogant position towards other nations. In fact I'm not sure who I'd rather beat up, Bush or Chirac.
France has been the first in line to condemn the EU member nations going from a left-center majority to a right-center one - Austria and Denmark included. But the truth of the matter is that we have a problem with immigration in Europe, and the shift in political demography is largely a result of this. Leftist politicians in Europe need to wake up and acknowledge the problems, instead of shouting racist at anyone who does. However, due to our history perhaps, doubting the current integration practices are very non-PC, and as long as people like Chirac and Schr�der are sitting in key positions things look unlikely to change.
A side effect of the large immigration of people from the middle east is that the average level of anti-Semitism has risen. (And to be frank, although I do not condone it, I can see why Arabs would be anti-Semitists.) Non-immigrants, however, are (in my experience) not getting increasingly anti-Semitic. Most are sick of hearing of the conflict in Israel/Palestine, sick of the number of refugees it causes, and generally tend to side with the Palestinean cause. However, they are not anti-Semitic, anti-Israel, nor are they the ones spitting at Jews for being Jews. In France it might be a different matter - but I assume not.
The cover-up of the report, I bet, is because its conclusions would give rise to these nasty questions about current immigration practices mentioned above. And, if I am right, then that decision is probably due to the French - apparently they run things pretty solidly in Brussel these days.


Posted by imokruok on Nov-30-2003 20:31:

quote:
Originally posted by trancaholic

France has been the first in line to condemn the EU member nations going from a left-center majority to a right-center one - Austria and Denmark included.


That was something that I found particularly disgusting from the French and other left-center governments. If the people of a nation want to elect a center-right majority, it is the business of those individual nations. The way those elections have been criticized, you would think center-right parties were completely illegitimate. The same happened in Switzerland recently - the left went completely crazy. But when the left-wing parties don't present solutions to pressing issues, they can't expect to have the peoples' vote forever.

As for the French, should we have expected anything different with regards to the Growth and Stability Pact? There is "l'exception fran�aise," which applies to everything they do.

I agree with you that immigration has become a major issue, as it should be. To combine this idea with the topic of anti-Semitism, check out the quote from Mark Steyn, a popular Anglo columnist:

59 per cent of Europeans think Israel is the biggest threat to world peace. . .At present demographic rates, by 2020 the majority of children in Holland � i.e., the population under 18 � will be Muslim. . .If Americans think it�s difficult getting the Continentals on their side now, wait another decade. In that sense, the Israelis are the canaries in the coalmine.


Posted by cfyoung4 on Nov-30-2003 21:12:

quote:
Originally posted by trancaholic

In fact I'm not sure who I'd rather beat up, Bush or Chirac.



quote:
Originally posted by trancaholic
The cover-up of the report, I bet, is because its conclusions would give rise to these nasty questions about current immigration practices mentioned above. And, if I am right, then that decision is probably due to the French - apparently they run things pretty solidly in Brussel these days.


This is precisely my concern. You cannot ductape, plaster, and paint over the ugly spots and hope they don't show through and blemish your otherwise wonderful creation. You've got to change them at their root cause. People are afraid to swim against the stream of popular opinion and instead take a non-confrontational, non-direct approach to problem-solving. They think if they ignore the problem long enough, maybe it will go away of its own accord. But in all matters of importance, we must look at things exactly as they are, without the filter of political correctness disrupting our view. And if amendment is needed, we should work towards that goal. The EU has tremendous possibilities, but be sure the foundations are well set and sturdy. In the end, all we have are our principles. If we neglect them, we falter.


Posted by TranceGiant on Nov-30-2003 22:11:

What an excellent discussion on a great highly important current problem. I'm in the unique position of being 1, Jewish 2, Israeli 3, European 4, Austrian(!). I'm meticulously following everything that concerns both inner-European affairs as well the relationship between Europeans, Arab immigrants and Jews as well as the general attitude towards the Middle East conflict.

It is a fact that Swedish teachers are scared of talking about the Holocaust in history lessons in schools with a high degree of Muslim pupils. It is a fact that Amsterdam (wich has been one of the most "liberal" cities towards Jews) undergoes a new wave of antisemitic attacks mainly carried out by Marroccan immigrants. It is a fact that women get beat up in Berlin's subway stations for wearing the david star (by Arab immigrants). It is a fact that 3 weeks ago 3 memebers of the Jewish community in Vienna ended up hospitalized after leaving the synagogue, beaten up by... *insert North African / Middle Eastern country here*. And it's increasing.

Last weekend I was casually walking through Vienna's main street when I heared people chanting and protesting, yet another "peace demonstration" with women covered up in Palestinian Kefiyas shouting the usual "Zionism = Racism" slogans. Hundreds of Arab guys holding transparents with highly anti-Israelic remarks (I think I know where constructive criticism ends and where pure hatred starts). Anyway, let's say it kinda ruined my afternoon shopping walk. But it is another great example of the neo-antisemitism that has found a new chic mask: It's not religous anymore (see "They crucified Jesus" in the middle ages) it's not racist anymore (see 19th century pseudo-scientific theory of semitic races) it doesn't use simply stereotypes (see "jews are greedy. Jews control the world. Jews are Bolshevists"). Nah, today European antisemitsm is undergoing a renaissance that is basically the result of Arab hatred of Jews (which is old skool Nazi-regime antisemitism. "Mein Kampf" and the "elders of Zion" are the most popular books in the Arab world today), the "enough is enough" mentality concerning the feelings towards the Holocaust (especially germans who say they're sick of being reminded of what was done and that Jews should stopy "whining"), and the widely accepted criticism of Israel. The latter can be so well used to subtly include some of the old clich�s, it's wonderful! My favourite would be the comparison between Nazis and today's Israeli politics. It wonderfully combines all three cornerstones of neo-antisemitism I mentioned.

Then again most of the Muslim immigrants in Europe are not integrated into society. Culture clash at its "best", especially in France, combined with a lack of education has always been an ideal basis for prejudice and eventually hatred. Too bad that many Europeans embrace it and take advantage of it by seeing it as a justification of their pseudo criticism against Israel (read "Arabs are semites, ergo they can't be antisemitic"). You see how the puzzle fits perfectly. You see how the threat is immanent and growing.


P.S.: Good points concerning France. I remember how it was heading the anti-Austrian capagin resulting in economic sanctions against us after the 1999 victory of Haider's freedom party. The epitome of hipocrisy when you think of Le Pen's recent results. What a snake of a country.


Posted by Yoepus on Nov-30-2003 22:59:

I'm glad to see that we at least can all come here on agreement on one point; The French sux


Posted by NYCTrancefan on Dec-01-2003 03:36:

I hate getting on the French bashing bandwagon, but the more that I examine the E.U. and the way it is set up, their idea of an all egalitarian European society is going to be sorely tested by time a Constitution is approved. How many Europeans on this board can honestly say that France and Germany are not intent on making Europe their pinnacle of influence on the world stage, contra the United States. If France, German, i.e the larger nations will look at themselves as equals with Malta, Slovenia, Latvia, Lithuania even Austria then to that I say . I hope the EU succeeds because I would welcome another body dealing with world issues and for once the blame can be passed around, without the U.S being the brunt of it. Problem is I am still trying to figure out 25 nations, just as many different languages, cultures and history attempting to harmonise while putting aside their own national interests. Good luck.


Posted by dj_ilan_yosef on Dec-01-2003 19:32:

PLEASE READ CAREFULLY.... i want everyone to read and understand this, esspecially those Jews out there who haven't put up a fight against this shit yet!

As a member of various boards worldwide I'm somewhat overwhelmed with all that I read on a daily basis. Just to name a few (and these are just incidents from emails i currently have in my inbox, i cant even explain to you ow many more i've deleted and how many more incidents i have failed to report here, none the less, one incident is more than enough!!!)

In Belgium, thugs beat up the chief rabbi, kicking him in the face and calling him "a dirty Jew."

Two synagogues in Brussels were firebombed; a third, in Charleroi, was sprayed with automatic weapon fire.

In Britain, the cover of the New Statesman, a left-wing magazine, depicted a large Star of David stabbing the Union Jack.

Oxford professor Tom Paulin, a noted poet, told an Egyptian interviewer that American Jews who move to the West Bank and Gaza "should be shot dead."

A Jewish yeshiva student reading the Psalms was stabbed 27 times on a London bus.

"Anti-Semitism", wrote a columnist in The Spectator, "has become respectable . . . at London dinner tables." She quoted one member of the House of Lords: "The Jews have been asking for it and now, thank God, we can say what we think at last."

In Italy, the daily paper La Stampa published a Page 1 cartoon: A tank emblazoned with a Jewish star points its gun at the baby Jesus, who pleads, "Surely they don't want to kill me again?"

In Corriere Della Sera, another cartoon showed Jesus trapped in his tomb, unable to rise, because Ariel Sharon, with rifle in hand, is sitting on the sepulcher. The caption:"Non resurrexit."

In Germany, a rabbinical student was beaten up in downtown Berlin and a grenade was thrown into a Jewish cemetery. Thousands of neo-Nazis held a rally, marching near a synagogue on the Jewish Sabbath. Graffiti appeared on a synagogue in the western town of Herford: "Six million were not enough."

In Ukraine, skinheads attacked Jewish worshippers and smashed the windows of Kiev's main synagogue. Ukrainian police denied that the attack was anti-Jewish.

In Greece, Jewish graves were desecrated in Loannina and vandals hurled paint at the Holocaust memorial in Salonica.

In Holland, an anti-Israel demonstration featured swastikas, photos of Hitler, and chants of "Sieg Heil" and "Jews into the sea."

In Slovakia, the Jewish cemetery of Kosice was invaded and 135 tombstones destroyed.

But nowhere have the flames of anti-Semitism burned more furiously than in France:

In Lyon, a car was rammed into a synagogue and set on fire. In Montpellier, the Jewish religious center was firebombed; so were synagogues in Strasbourg and Marseilles; so was a Jewish school in Creteil. A Jewish sports club in Toulouse was attacked with Molotov cocktails, and on the statue of Alfred Dreyfus in Paris, the words "Dirty Jew" were painted.

In Bondy, 15 men beat up members of a Jewish football team with sticks and metal bars. The bus that takes Jewish children to school in Aubervilliers has been attacked three times in the last 14 months.

According to the police, metropolitan Paris has seen 10 to 12 anti-Jewish incidents per day since Easter. Walls in Jewish neighborhoods have been defaced with slogans proclaiming "Jews to the gas chambers" and "Death to the Jews."

The weekly journal Le Nouvel Observateur published an appalling libel: It said Israeli soldiers rape Palestinian women, so that their relatives will kill them to preserve "family honor."

The French ambassador to Great Britain was not sacked -- and did not apologize -- when it was learned that he had told guests at a London dinner that the world's troubles were the fault of "...that shitty little country, Israel."

"At the start of the 21st century," writes Pierre-Andre Taguieff, a well-known social scientist, in a new book, "we are discovering that Jews are once again select targets of violence. . . Hatred of the Jews has returned to France." But of course, it never left. Not France; not Europe.

Anti-Semitism, the oldest bigotry known to man, has been a part of European society since time immemorial. In the aftermath of the Holocaust, open Jew-hatred became unfashionable; but fashions change, and Europe is reverting to type.

To be sure, some Europeans are shocked by the reemergence of Jew-hatred all over their continent. But the more common reaction has been complacency.

"Stop saying that there is anti-Semitism in France," President Jacques Chirac scolded a Jewish editor in January. "There is no anti-Semitism in France."

The European media have been vicious in condemning Israel's self-defense against Palestinian terrorism in the West Bank; they have been far less agitated about antiJewish terror in their own backyard.

They are making a grievous mistake. For if today the violence and vitriol are aimed at the Jews, tomorrow they will be aimed at the Christians. A timeless lesson of history is that it rarely ends with the Jews.

Militant Islamist extremists were attacking and killing Jews long before they attacked and killed Americans on Sept. 11.

The Nazis first set out to incinerate the Jews; in the end, all of Europe was ablaze. Jews, it is often said, are the canary in the coal mine of civilization. When they become the objects of savagery and hate, it means the air has been poisoned and an explosion is soon to come. If Europeans don't rise up and turn against the Jew-haters, it is only a matter of time until the Jew-haters rise up and turn against them.

French Anti-Semitism Finally and long overdue, your people, oppressed and disgraced by hatred and maliciousness, have achieved justice: now you enjoy full citizen's rights, but you'll remain Jews nonetheless." Franz Grillparzer (1791-1872), Austrian author.

A gunman opened fire on a kosher butcher's shop (and, of course, the butcher) in Toulouse, France; a Jewish couple in their 20s were beaten up by five men in Villeurbanne, France. The woman was pregnant; a Jewish school was broken into and vandalized in Sarcelles, France. This was in the past week.

According to the Anti-Defamation League, from September 9, 2000, at the start of the intifada, through November 20, 2001, there were some 330 acts of anti-Semitism just in and around Paris. In addition to literally scores of firebombing of synagogues, just before Rosh Hashanah, 200 Arabs attacked Jews on the Champs Elysees. The pace has only picked up since then:

In December, a French cinema in Paris refused to allow a Hanukah showing of Harry Potter to 800 Jewish children because of French-Palestinian threats (the threats were confirmed by French police who then went on to do nothing, not even giving details). It was one incident in an eventful month when synagogues continued to be firebombed and a Jewish kindergarten was vandalized with anti-Semitic graffiti and set ablaze.

We can understand anti-Semitism among the French people. There is nothing the French love like their traditions and, on the question of hating Jews, they certainly have tradition galore. What, however, can explain the sometimes muted, sometimes defensively outraged reaction of French officials?

Simple. There are approximately 5,000,000 to 6,000,000 Muslims presently living in France and many more arrive daily. There are only about 600,000 Jews still living in France. Moreover, France is the number one European exporter to Iraq, totaling over two billion dollars per year in exports since 2000. To those who are at a loss to explain why French elected officials seem "helpless" to stem the tide of anti-Semitism, I say that something smells awfully Vichy around here.

You already know that Israel is at war against a fearsome enemy, which has brought the fight to its streets. Much of the civilized world (well, at least on this side of the Atlantic), finally understands this fact.

What is not being acknowledged, however, is that this is not a war against Israel, or as propagandists and demagogues worldwide would have it, occupiers.

This is a war against each and every individual, Israeli or not, religious or not, Zionist or not, right, left or center, who identifies himself or herself as Jewish. Israel is only the publicized front line and if you are not in Israel, and the fight has not arrived at your front yard, just wait. Or, perhaps, we shouldn't wait. Perhaps history has finally taught us, of all people, that waiting and hoping for succor and sympathy from the nations of the world will lead only to more burned synagogues, pogroms, and, down the road, grim-faced dignitaries mouthing "never again" while dedicating yet another memorial museum. We cannot wait inactively and hope to have security or peace for our children or ourselves. We dare not privately rail against irrational, virulent hatred while letting the world believe that we remain disinterested, accepting our lot with equanimity or, worse, resignation. We can and must do more than simply grieve. So I call on you, whether you are a fellow Jew, a friend, or merely a person with the capacity and desire to distinguish decency from depravity, to do, at least, these three simple things:

First, care enough to stay informed. Don't ever let yourself become deluded into thinking that this is not your fight.

Second, boycott France. Only the Arab countries are more toxically anti-Semitic and, unlike them, France exports more than just oil and hatred. So boycott their wines and their perfumes. Boycott their clothes and their foodstuffs. Boycott their movies. Definitely boycott their shores. If we are resolved we can exert amazing pressure and, whatever else we may know about the French, we most certainly know that they are as a cobweb in a hurricane in the face of well directed pressure.

Third, send this along to your family, your friends, and your coworkers. Think of all of the people of good conscience that you know and let them know that you and the people that you care about need their help.

The number one best selling book in France is "September 11: The Frightening Fraud," which argues that no plane ever hit the Pentagon.

Our only strength is the strength of our community and there can be no community without communication.

This is really scary stuff, we cannot allow this to continue. With education we can curb this hideous anti-Semitic wave and squelch it.....before it grows and engulfs us all.


Posted by imokruok on Dec-02-2003 19:43:

Nice post, dj_ilan_yosef. In case you haven't seen it yet, here's a news story on the EU report, and it includes a link where you can download the whole thing. No one's quite sure how the report got out, but it's there.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...sm_dc&printer=1



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