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-- Beatmatching is HARD!


Posted by knamj on Jul-23-2001 21:01:

Beatmatching is HARD!

I got a pair of 1200M3D's and a cheap mixer and about a dozen records and it was soooo hard to beatmatch... I know it takes 2 weeks to many months to be able to do this, but I was shocked how hard it was. I have a new respect for DJs that do this all the time and look so calm and collected doing it.

Part of the reason it was hard was I was using cheap walkman headphones (can't hear the bass well), I'm have a pair of sony mdr-v6's that are alright for djing that I have to find in my moving boxes.

couple questions:

1) how do you count the beats? ideally you should be counting 32 beats at a time right? do you count 1.2.3...32? or 1.2.3...16.1.2.3...16?

or do you just "know" when the beginning of the 8 measures are.

I count 1.2.3...8 4 times.

2) my monitor speakers suck (computer speakers) so I listen to both channels at once in my headphones, (channel A in left ear, channel B in right ear)... do most people do it that way? or do they listen to channel B in one ear and use the monitor speaker to listen to the channel A?


Posted by D-Syde on Jul-23-2001 21:25:

To answer your questions...

1) I count beats like:
1-234, 2-234, 3-234, 4-234, 5-234, 6-234, 7-234, 8-234
Usually a new sound will always start up (twards the begining of the song) or be taken away (twards the end of a song) on the #1 in the above sequence. After a while or when you get used to particualr songs, you wont have to count the beats, you will just be able to tell when a new measure starts.

2)I believe most DJs mix with headphone on the left ear, and booth monitor or speaker in the right ear. I dont know of any DJs who use channel B in one ear and channel A in the other, and use strictly headphones. Although...I heard it was pretty good to at least know how to do it that way, incase a monitor speaker blows...or you eventually get a gig, and for some reason they dont even have a booth speaker.


Posted by D-Syde on Jul-23-2001 21:30:

Naturally its tough at first but after you get a hang of it, you'll forget why you ever thought it was so hard to match beats...most big DJs can do it like nothing now.

Oh yeah, and DEFFINETLY get your self a better pair of headphones. ThHey really do make all the difference, especially if you are using walkman headphones. That should be your first task!!!

Hope that answers your questions. Feel free to ask more if needed, everyone here is pretty eager to help others out.


Posted by trintiy on Jul-23-2001 22:36:

Almost all modern dance music has four beats in the bar, such as the thump...thump...thump...thump, house kick drum pattern. If you count this rhythm over alsmost any dance track, you will be able to identify the same basic 1,2,3,4 pulse. These fours, or 'bars' themselves fall into regular patterns or 'phrases'. And you can have 4,8, or 16 bar phrases. If you look at trance or house music new elements will be introduced or droped out every 8 or 16 bars.

When beat-mixing not only must you synchronise the tempo of the two records, but you must also make sure that they make musical sense when playing together. This means that the beats of the new track should correspond exactly with those of the track playing in terms of phrasing.

Record 1
Bar 1 Bar2 Bar3 Bar4 Bar5 Bar6 Bar7 Bar8
1234 2234 3234 4234 5234 6234 7234 8234

Record 2
Bar 1 Bar2 Bar3 Bar4 Bar5 Bar6 Bar7 Bar8
1234 2234 3234 4234 5234 6234 7234 8234

Once you begin to feel cofident that your tempos are matching up, practice on making the phrases move naturally. Normally it is difficult to do a smooth mix of fewer than 8 bars. Practice holding two records in the mix for 8, then 16, then 32 bars, and when you bring a new record into the mix do it at the beginning of the phrase.


Posted by dazzed on Jul-23-2001 23:02:

yah definatly find those headphones. hearing the bass makes a huge difference.

I personally do alternate between headphones and speakers. If you ever decide to go live it may be a good idea to be able to match with all headphones because I've heard of there being slight delays in the audio systems. In which case you could match the record to whats coming out of the system perfectly, then move the fader over, and find that the song isnt matched correctly.


Posted by Johnny Eckhardt on Jul-23-2001 23:57:

Never really did the counting thing....I've always went by feel. I guess this doesn't work for everybody, though.
A good pair of headphones and monitors makes all the difference in the world.


Posted by sKyBreAK on Jul-24-2001 02:25:

If you don't have good monitors you will be forced to use pre-fade or split cue.

You have to do the counting, even if you go by feel its all based on counting. I know what you mean by feel, like you know when it will happen. But if there's a track thats really repetitive its always best to count to avoid messing up.

Beat matching... Been spinning for nearly 8 months now...
I've got it pretty well worked out...
Practise more and you'll get it...

Here are the basics...
Chan 1 is playing
Cue up Chan 2 and release when the bars are inline...
IE.
|1|2|3|4|2|2|3|4|3|2|3|4|4|2|3|4 - Chan 1
|1 |2 |3 |4 |2 |2 |3 |4 |3 |2 |3 |4 |4 |2 |3 |4 - Chan 2

In this case, Chan 2 is slower than Chan 1... So push the record forward and increase the pitch... Therefore...
|1|2|3|4|2|2|3|4|3|2|3|4|4|2|3|4 - Chan 1
|1|2|3|4|2|2|3|4|3|2|3|4|4|2|3|4 - Chan 2

And then cue back to the first beat, or the beat you want to release off...
And count the bars... Once it hits "1" release it and either push or slow down the platter depending if you got it correctly. Once you got it x-fade out. Make it smooth by not just cutting in... Set EQ's... Usually the gain...


Posted by patticus on Jul-24-2001 20:43:

wtf exactly is "monitors" ???
i have a shit basic mixer, vestax 3 pro

so i just use split cue (mini crossfader), that's all i really know, except when i was using another vestax and there was an actual switch you could flip, chaninging the record you were cueing and a "balance" rotary switch.

can someone fill me in on what im missing, i dont know anything about using "smaller speakers" or anything

is it necessary for the future?


Posted by j_spot on Jul-24-2001 21:14:

U ever notice how DJs have Large speakers aimed @ their heads about 3 feet away(ie on the ends of the tables where decks/mixer is) Those are monitors.

Is it neccesary..well no, but is it nice..hell yeah. For playing by yourself in the basement, u dont need em @ all. They are prolly as big as your system(ie mine comes out of the Aux of my mini system for the time being) For a gig, u would wanna be used to Monitors prolly


Posted by D-Syde on Jul-24-2001 21:20:

A Monitor is just a speaker. In the case of at a club the dj's use monitor speakers that are in the dj booth as apposed to listening to the ones all the way across the club.

At home it isnt as necessary to have a seperate speaker just as a Monitor, because the other speakers should do just fine. The room usually isnt as a big as a club, and your speakers usually are not too far away to where there would be a delay.

Sounds like you are using just headphones to listen to your two records??? Normally you would listen to the one you are about to bring in through the headphones...and just listen to the one playing through your regular speakers...(they should be a decent pair, with pretty clear bass)


Posted by mute79 on Jul-25-2001 00:32:

umm, why exactly are you counting the beats? it isnt really clear to me... the way i would beatmatch is by feel like someone mentioned... when youre counting, are you listenin to how long the gaps between the bars are?! someone please clear this up for me? thanks!


Posted by patticus on Jul-25-2001 08:46:

quote:
Originally posted by D-Syde
A Monitor is just a speaker. In the case of at a club the dj's use monitor speakers that are in the dj booth as apposed to listening to the ones all the way across the club.

At home it isnt as necessary to have a seperate speaker just as a Monitor, because the other speakers should do just fine. The room usually isnt as a big as a club, and your speakers usually are not too far away to where there would be a delay.

Sounds like you are using just headphones to listen to your two records??? Normally you would listen to the one you are about to bring in through the headphones...and just listen to the one playing through your regular speakers...(they should be a decent pair, with pretty clear bass)


thanks, i knew they were speakers, i just didnt realize the relevance. hehe. yeah and if my room was as big as a club, i would just hold parties for everyone. lol. but i do both, listen in the headphones (right ear) and to the big ass 3 ft speakers in my room (left ear), actually at night when i record i turn off the speakers so theres basically no output, just recording input
and use the split cue. i get my best results USUALLY like that, but its less fun and hard to check the levels (only the meters on the tape deck) - and the mixer is weird with the split crossfader.
so yah i have average, decent sony headphones

i guess ive used monitor speakers before, just not monitor speakers AND headphones AND big ass club speakers. duh.


Posted by jesten on Jul-26-2001 01:59:

quote:
Originally posted by TranceGeek
umm, why exactly are you counting the beats? it isnt really clear to me... the way i would beatmatch is by feel like someone mentioned... when youre counting, are you listenin to how long the gaps between the bars are?! someone please clear this up for me? thanks!


I will try to explain this the best I can so bear with me.
In a song there will usually be an element of the track add or disappear every 8,16,32 beats or so. So when you are mixing in a track, the 2 records will have element changes at the same time.

ex. record1 12345678/22345678/32345678/42345678
record2 12345678/22345678/32345678/42345678

I hoped that helped, or at least made sence.

DJing is a SCIENCE!


Posted by jesten on Jul-26-2001 02:01:

It was supposed to look like this..........

record1 12345678/22345678/32345678/42345678
record2 12345678/22345678/32345678/42345678

ooops


Posted by knamj on Jul-26-2001 02:36:

Is it cheating to write down the bpm on the label?

so you have a "general" idea where to cue up the pitch control in relation to the other record's turntable.


Posted by Eugene on Jul-26-2001 03:00:

Exclamation My Advice

The advice is simple: Don't try to match just the beats, try to match the BLOCKS. A block is one complete measure, it's usually started by a loud drum, and ended by a build-up to the next block.


Posted by mute79 on Jul-26-2001 06:04:

i see what you mean, i think, but you would count beats only when youre sure that the 2 records have the same tempo, right? like, first, you would beatmatch by feel, then when youre sure that the two records are going at the same bpm rate, you would start counting the beats in order to mix the 2 records... is this how it goes?


Posted by D-Syde on Jul-26-2001 14:52:

Counting beats / paying attention to measures, has nothing to do with actual beat matching!

To beat match you just have to get the two records at the same speed so each of the bass hits happen at the same time. Once you are sure they are matched then you wanna pay attention to the bars and measures. (this is easier and makes it sound a hell of a lot better when you are actually mixing in the song) BUT, before you begin to mix them in they need to be matched.

Now some poeple once they feel the records are matched then listen to the bars & measures...making sure that the records stay in sync for a certain amout of measures...say like 3 or 4 measures.

a measure can be like:
1-2345678, 2-2345678, 3-2345678, 4-2345678
or you can count them like this:
1-234. 2-234, 3-234, 4-234, 5-234, 6-234, 7-234, 8-234

Both of those are exactly the same...some people do it one way some do it the other.


Posted by D-Syde on Jul-26-2001 15:00:

quote:
Is it cheating to write down the bpm on the label?


I wouldnt say its CHEATING...its kinda cheap though. I would deffinetly not reley on this. Learn to do it correctly in the first place and it'll make things SOOO much easier down the line.

What if you are dependent upon knowing the BPM, and your spinning for some friends or something and the sticker falls off...now it'll take you say 4 or 5 minutes to match that record, as apposed to like 1 or 2.

Its just something you should not reley on!


Posted by havok118 on Jul-26-2001 18:04:

No, go ahead and write the bpms on the labels, it will help you when you are getting started...just don't get into calculating percentages.

Eventually you'll learn to realize the difference between fast and slow, just like it's night and day.


Posted by DJ LIQUID on Jul-26-2001 23:52:

Smiley DJ

Magic number is "4"
dont be afraid to fix the pitch while you have them both live
your not gonna match them perfectly unless youve been at it for a long time......keep your cool and dont get so nervous that you'll actually make yourself mess up the beats


Posted by DJ LIQUID on Jul-26-2001 23:58:

Smiley DJ

In response to that Writing the BPMs on the records.......i dont think thats the best thing to do......i tried doing that and it made it more difficult to mix.....

DO it by ear...it'll help you in the long run....what r u gonna do when you get a whole fresh set of vinyls right down all the BPMs....HELL NAW.....

i think the best time you can mix a track is when youve never heard it before.

Throw away that BPM crap....if you learn it by ear you'll be unstopable


Posted by Max2LC on Jul-27-2001 02:42:

Yea..

All I can say is that it takes time...
give it some time...u need to hear a beat...and i u have no ear or beat in your brain....chances are it will take you longer to do it..



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