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spinning cds...

first of all i dont mean to offend anyone and i am not saying that vinyl is better than cds or vice versa so please dont start arguing or flaming or what not becuase i honestly have not tried spinning cds so i realize that i am in no place to make any judgements.

but anyway

i love watching djs spin and i have a collection of videos of djs spinning.

i was just watching the pvd at love parade video and he was spinning cds. it looks so...boring.

this got me thinking about why it looks that way to me.. and i think what is missing is all the touching and manipulating...the feel i guess

can anyone who is experienced comment on the different feel of cds and vinyl? maybe discuss pros and cons etc... i know people talk about cds and vinyl but im trying to start a different kind of discussion regarding the two.

Can't say im that experiences(3 yrs. spinning) but the main reason i prefer vinyl is that i actually get to do something with my hands instead of just pushing buttons on the cd player. It's hard to explain but i think vinyl is just cooler because it's more traditional. A turntable is like one of the essential icons of deejaying and with vinyl i feel like i can controll the track better than with cd. A TT is so much more simple. I don't know if this makes any sense but i actually combine that "undergorund feeling" with TTs and vinyl. Even though trance has become more commercial with the years, i feel that vinyl is the "real" format for electronic music.

i've been spinning for about 3 weeks at our local club in my hometown and we have cdj and turntables and i first only used the tt but after a week everybody heard my collection twiece or more( of vinyl that is) so i had to come up with some knew songs quick i had some old cd at home and i use the cdj a lot know ...

the difference for me is that spinning with tt is having fun and doing "your thing"
with the cdj's it doesn't feel like a challenge to keep mixing and searching for those track's that evrybody wants to hear because they are just packed with 20 on one disc and you dont have to search songs any more.

conclusion: the difference between tt and cd'j ; the feeling; is that tt are much more fun then cdj because it is harder to do and it keeps you alive and kickin'

no offence to the cd -dj here , this is just my expirience.

The thing about cds or final scratch is I would miss being able to see the song and all the breaks on the vinyl.

true, when i do spin cds, i do have to know the song a lot more than when i just spin vinyl

quote:

Originally posted by Nou FS has waveform display, so you can see the breaks.

i understand that you can see the breaks on the screen but when you drop the needle is it still random? or can you just click on the place that you want the "needle" to be on the computer?

maybe im just used to vinyl but it seems so much more simple and efficient when dealing with one track.

its nice to have lots of tracks on one cd/hardrive but i donno... i just love vinyl so much. i love shopping for them and i love handling them and flipping through them in a crate

i think the feel is what i would miss if i were to use a cdj... i would miss the feel of the platter as i drag my finger to slow it down...and i would miss teh feedback of the motor when i touch the record or platter

as for fs... i guess its kind of like using a hand held device imo... personally i woudl rather use paper becuase i like flipping pages and...actually writing and feeling the pencil or a nice pen as i write...much better than a cheap plastic object and clikcing buttons i guess. owell.. im just rambling now

You do realise this will end in an argument right?


I find spinning cds a chore- i do some nights using purely cds (when i do a party nite for example) and i get bored with having to track scan , eject, cue and all the rest of it- if you spin purely cds in a nite- i promise you at least one over the course of the nite will fail to read, wont cue, will skip or stutter or pause. In a normal club nite i will use as few as 5 cds in a 5 hour nite- sometimes can be more- but not normally very many

For me there is something about having a record in your hands- it is a physical recreation of something- not just 0s and ones.
I have total control over it in the way that i can never have over cd.
i dont have to wait for a 12" to cue
I dont have to skip through it using a jog dial
I dont have to set a cue point to the nearerst 0.1second or whatever
I can see if therer is anything that will cause it to skip or be noisy
I know EXACTLY how much to physically manipulate it to get the desired effect
I can scratch with it (proper scratching- not a re-creation of)
Vinyl sounds better (continuous waveform rather than binary representation)
I have never had a 12" skip 30 seconds, or decide to stutter on one millisecond of sound then have a fit

Vinyl is by no means the perfect format- but il will be using it in preference to anything else for as long as its still made.

My arms and upper body get a work out every time i carry my boxes to work- added bonus

Im also a stubborn b*stard and love all things retro/old skool

but the most important reason- is that im happy using it- in fact no- i LOVE using it- so dont see any reason to change that

Just my 2 euros worth

for me the easiest part of cdj's is the cue function. i find it easier bcuz the track begins at the exact cue point and there isnt a delay, i never used vinyl that much but i think the hard part for me on vinyl is there is a delay when u release the record and its hard to make the adjustment after.

Freak -- however, there are times when cueing up the 12" and the needle jumps grooves right as you are about ready to let go (this usually only happens for me on that really light, flimsey vinyl). Not that I am advocating the use of cds, I prefer vinyl as well... just pointing out one of the few flaws of vinyl.

it's never been about the medium for me...

It's always been about 'Can I rock the house or not?'. Some of you guys knocking CDs have obviously not used quality CD decks. The issues you're citing are simply non-existent on quality CD decks.

Manipulating vinyl is is cool ... CDs have some awfully nice features as well: storing cue points & loops are two of my favorites, not to mention I have never had one skip when bumped.

Hell, it doesn't matter to me - cassette, cd, dvd, vinyl, or that new MIT audiopad gadget - it matters not. If I can rock the house, I can rock the house, no matter what format I spin.

Having said that - Technics are a beautiful industrial design - nice blend of form and function. Even Pioneer CDJ1000s will look dated in a few short years. CDJs just haven't reached the pinnacle of their design cycle yet, but someone will distill it to the necessary elements, and we'll have a watershed design - give em time.

Cheers...

Re: it's never been about the medium for me...

quote:

Originally posted by Dzokayi It's always been about 'Can I rock the house or not?'. Some of you guys knocking CDs have obviously not used quality CD decks. The issues you're citing are simply non-existent on quality CD decks. Manipulating vinyl is is cool ... CDs have some awfully nice features as well: storing cue points & loops are two of my favorites, not to mention I have never had one skip when bumped. Hell, it doesn't matter to me - cassette, cd, dvd, vinyl, or that new MIT audiopad gadget - it matters not. If I can rock the house, I can rock the house, no matter what format I spin. Having said that - Technics are a beautiful industrial design - nice blend of form and function. Even Pioneer CDJ1000s will look dated in a few short years. CDJs just haven't reached the pinnacle of their design cycle yet, but someone will distill it to the necessary elements, and we'll have a watershed design - give em time. Cheers...

well said

i spin both vinyl and cds
as long as i rock the house, i really don't care what anyone says or thinks

someone came up to the booth once and started knocking me about using the cdj. i just pointed to the rockin crowd and was like "they don't seem to mind"

he just shut up and walked away

i learned how to mix on cd players and a couple months ago bought technics. spinning vinyl is alot more fun. it is def. more hands on, and generally just more fun. i still dont mind playind cds. when a song has a funky intro that doesnt start on a kick drum, i would rather have a cd so that i can set the cue point and flip back to it when ever i want.

i'm not the most talented mixer, so sometimes i have to bust back to the begining of the song once or twice to make sure that they are the same speed. i'm sure that the more i practice and play, the less this will matter.

i wouldnt totally write of cds just because they arent as cool as vinyl. its about the music, and making people dance and have fun. being able to play both is the way to go.

Yes, I'm new to this. Howver after thinking about this for a while I came to this conclusion, why not use both? Cause to me the quality of vinyl is the best but also with cd's you can spin song that you can't get your hands on on vinyl (if you own the legally of course) and spin some songs that are very rare on vinyl. So why not use both and "maximize" your potential. Also you can spin your own songs and see how the crowd likes it before actually trying to send it out to labels.

I for one hate the fact that some Dj can download a song with no effort at all, i mean many Djs search for a song on vinyl JUST to please the crowd and takes them years to find that rare song...yet the CDJ goes and spends 30 minutes downloading it, and plays it...and he gets the same feedback, pffft.

I mean the vinyl collection really expresses the nature of the DJ and how passionate he really is to the scene, are we going to take that away from all the vinyl DJs who spend big bucks on vinyl, and get the same feedback as CDJs?

quote:

Originally posted by dj_moonshine but i think the hard part for me on vinyl is there is a delay when u release the record and its hard to make the adjustment after.

Err i don't think you have used vinyl enough yet, cueing on vinyl is hard but not that hard, just put the vinyl a little further away from the cue point and release and nudge forward or back depending if the song lands infront or behind the cue mark.

BUT again i have to say CDJs are for fakers, except for people who are actually promoting their own material.

CDJ user
"Sick!!! come watch me play all the newest tunes, YEAH!!!"

I'm not even making sense anymore

I think the problem people have with CDJ's is that CDJ machines are trying to be vinyl TT's. Look at the CDJ1000 - it has the jog wheel, you can scratch with it, etc. Just like vinyl. It isn't, and never will be, vinyl.

I think I, like perhaps many others, see CD's come along in the last few years and try to steal the market away from underneath vinyl, and we see it as a threat. I think this is due to CDJ's trying to emulate vinyl. If CDJ's came up with a completely different approach to mixing it wouldn't be so much of an issue, but the fact is, a lot of people see CDJ's as wannabes trying to pretend to be vinyl when it isn't.

My $0.02.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris d(-_-)b Can't say im that experiences(3 yrs. spinning) but the main reason i prefer vinyl is that i actually get to do something with my hands instead of just pushing buttons on the cd player. It's hard to explain but i think vinyl is just cooler because it's more traditional. A turntable is like one of the essential icons of deejaying and with vinyl i feel like i can controll the track better than with cd. A TT is so much more simple. I don't know if this makes any sense but i actually combine that "undergorund feeling" with TTs and vinyl. Even though trance has become more commercial with the years, i feel that vinyl is the "real" format for electronic music.

I agree exept the "real format" part.

A whole lot of black magic... that's what it is.

So far people have managed to restrain themselves...

When I DJ I will rarely play a CD. I did play one CD yesterday though but that was because this song is not out yet and it was actually one of the producers on the production forum who had made the track. (You guys should check that out sometime, there is some great stuff there, just remember to respect them with regards to playing their tracks out i.e. get permission).

As I played out yesterday I took a step back and looked at the setup of the joint I was in. It was pretty basic and the mixer was horendous but I watched the vinyl spinning on the deck and then looked at the crowd. I kind of had a magical moment in the midst of all that there and it just reminded me of why I became a DJ.
I love vinyl plain and simple, it's such a strong passion with me it's beyond words.
I know quite a lot of CDJs and the one major difference I have noticed with a lot of the guys is the relationship a Vinyl DJ will have with his music in comparrison to the CDJ. While both will be fiercly deffensive over their overall collection. The CDJs don't seem to get as attatched to their CDs the way a vinyl DJ can get about a particular record. Perhaps because the availability is different. Also perhaps because a CD can be created at home where as vinyl comes from this magical place that's not as accessable to us.

Vinyl also seems more quantifiable. If someone has a collection of 500 CDs you could actually store it in a shoe box and no one would be any wiser (Without Jewel cases of course). 500 vinyls is a large amount of records and is a very visible thing. I also just feel that I am getting more for my money when I buy vinyl.

Vinyl is also very tactile although I don't ever touch the vinyl or the platter when I am mixing (except when I'm scratching) because I ride the pitch I still pay a lot of attention to the grooves etc. Reading a record is also a useful skill.

Perhaps it's just me but I always find a set on vinyl whether it's played by me or someone else just so much more funky and free flowing than one by a CDJ, but whatever it is I can hear a difference. That's not to say I wouldn't enjoy a CDJ who spins well just like I would hate to listen to a bad vinyl DJ.

In terms of the DJ being an icon, our history has seen a job that was considered geekish, change in to one of complete superstardom. Likewise the Technics 1200 design has become one of the most powerful images used in association with DJing. Everyone, DJ or not knows exactly what they are looking at when they look at a deck. You could show random people on the street pictures of any of the major Industrial strenth CD players and most people would probably not be able to tell you what it was. And even if they could they would most likely not link it to DJing.
Although people also link the crossfader on the mixer to what we do in a similar way, but the truth is that not many Dance music DJs use it.

Those crazy Turntablists
Something some of you guys might not be aware of, but Turntablists take this sort of arguement to a whole new level as they will pretty much hate anything that's not spun at 33 RPM. While the sound quality of a 45 is actually better than a 33 the latter is easier to manipulate and get more intersting sounds/effects out.


It's only fair to say that there are good CDJs out there who do a great job. I do however think that Vinyl DJs are just a different breed in terms of how they percieve the job. All the CDJs who I know that are good actually started with vinyl but moved on to CD for practical reasons and nothing more. Most common reason being they sold decks plus vinyl and then changed their mind but coudn't afford to go down that route again.
The guys who started as CDJs tend to be a little more sterile in their approach to the whole thing and that's maybe why I perceive it as such. Although being realistic this only covers a small cross section of people I know.

I think that vinyl knowledge is essential to appreciate the true artform after all it is how it all started.

Just my serving of food for thought.

Cheers
Nem

Im always lovin of reading your comments Nem, what are mostly based on your long DJ/Musician career.
Cheers!

yea i definitely think that nem hit it home about the passion.

i guess the thing is that cds can always be replaced. as for vinyl..its just not something that one can take for granted. you can handle cds, use them as little frisbees, coasters, wall decorations, weapons, microwave fireworks, wheels, etc... you just cant treat vinyl like that. you cant even touch it or play it too much. i guess vinyl is more valuable to me in that its so much more fragile and irreplacable.

so atleast i personally, as a dj, appreciates vinyl as a medium more than i would, as a cdj, appreciate cds.. becuase i throw cds around like candy. i know that i can always burn another one for like.. not very much money or time

i find that the kind of media i use depends on the venue im off to... if its a shitty disco, then cds will be dusted off and used... i think most ppl will prefer vinyl to use, but cds will always have to cum out and play purely because there just rnt enough copies of sugababes on vinyl out there...

9 times out of 10, if ur favourite media is vinyl, then u wont be in a bar/club that uses cds (cos it aint ur style of music)

i noticed id drifted off the point completely there... sorry ! if ur djin on CD decks, ur not doin it for the "feel", ur doin it cos the music u need to play is on CDs at that time. i dont think n e body has eva had a kick out of DJin on cds... i havnt n e way... only when the dancefloors full.

U cant fill the dancefloor at a retirement party with Motercycle - As the rush comes. I only eva use Cds if i havnt got that tune on Vinyl. thats maybe wat tiesto was doin (or whoeva it was u was watchin)

I just thought of a great analogy... vinyl TTs is like having a standard transmission in your car, and having CD TTs is like having auto... why people take standard over auto is because its more fun and you actually feel as if you are in control of the car. Yes some people take standard for that extra gear and better performance, but try to ignore that fact and the analogy is pretty accurate

lol i would hesitate to say that its completely automatic mixing though... maybe like a paddle shifter or some sort of push button on the steering wheel : P

Just use both CD & Vinyl turntables and you'll be happy...

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