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Posted by clubsolutely on Dec-30-2003 20:08:

turntable question!

hey,
im mixing with vinyls almost 3 years now but lately i found out about something i dunno its reason.
i beatmatch 2 vinyls as much exact as i can, the thing is that after some seconds 10 20 30 or even more, the beats spreading out slowly until its not beatmathced.
is there a pitch point that the vinyls will be match exactly for the entire song or could it be the tt's problem ? ? !

setup is 2 stantons str8-80

Posted by DJ-Fuq on Dec-30-2003 21:11:

Its humanly impossible to get 2 records matched to exactly the same speed so they will always drift apart sooner or later. The only thing u can do about this is correct the problem as soon as u notice it happening.

Posted by SgtFoo on Dec-30-2003 21:24:

I beg to differ. It's all a matter of how precise you match the beats. It could also be the turntables, regardless of the make or model. The motors can be perfectly pitched, but there are always variations from any kind of source that may throw off the speed's consistency.

Also, although I've only done it about 4 times, I had 2 records pretty much perfectly in sync. I ran the beats together with the crossfader in the middle for about 7 minutes and no veering off-beat. Needless to say if I were to do this for a 12 minute track, they might have veered off later on. But I do believe it's humanly possible.

One more thing to mention is that a 20 to 30 second period before they go off-beat is quite good, but you should aim higher in the time for your transitions, just for good practice.

Posted by clubsolutely on Dec-30-2003 21:29:

ok thx
i got little scared that i just lost my mixing skills
but ok now

Posted by Nemesis44 on Dec-31-2003 12:01:

It's possible but there are a load of factors that play a part.

Motors in the TTs is one.

The cut of the record is another. If the hole in the record isn't perfectly in the center then you will get a slight swaying in the tone arm which can make beat matching a little harder.

Also the speed of the vinyl cutter had to have been in good order too. My copy of Bangin' Globe by Yoji Biomehanika is totaly un mixable on one side due to this. It's so bad you can actually hear it varying in speed.

Your correction techniques can also play a part and so on.

Don't worry about having to correct the speed of the records, even the pro's do it. It's more about how well you do it that makes a good DJ.

Cheers
Nem

Posted by DeZmA on Dec-31-2003 12:41:

I guess maybe it can also be because one of your vinyls is not totally in a right angle, meaning the one side is round, the other side concave..
I really don't mind a dj correcting as long as it is subtle (at least in trance) heavely correcting when a woman's vocal is spinning of course is not advised

Posted by DJ-Fuq on Jan-02-2004 03:59:

quote:
Originally posted by DeZmA
I guess maybe it can also be because one of your vinyls is not totally in a right angle, meaning the one side is round, the other side concave..
I really don't mind a dj correcting as long as it is subtle (at least in trance) heavely correcting when a woman's vocal is spinning of course is not advised

Playing records that have womens vocals isnt advised

Posted by Nemesis44 on Jan-02-2004 12:30:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ-Fuq
Playing records that have womens vocals isnt advised

Yup,
I'm not big on vocals either.

When you have corrections with tracks like that though you will be better of riding the pitch than messing around with the deck plate. Sounds less offensive.

Cheers
Nem

Posted by on Jan-02-2004 20:31:

quote:
Originally posted by Nemesis44
The cut of the record is another. If the hole in the record isn't perfectly in the center then you will get a slight swaying in the tone arm which can make beat matching a little harder.

Cheers
Nem

I got records where the hole isn't tight around the spindle.. like i can literally move the record around because the gap is that big... I can prolly move it like 1-2 millimetres... i never really notice the hole when I am buying record because I am never cueing it up for anything.. Just listening to see if I like it. (plus you shouldn't scratch or play with the record in the store anyways in my opinion).

But anyways... Is this what you are referring to Nem? or is this a completely different problem??

Cheers.

Posted by Boomer187 on Jan-02-2004 21:07:

Vocal haters.

I think I only have 2 records that don't have vocals.

Posted by Nemesis44 on Jan-02-2004 21:18:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ Lazy
I got records where the hole isn't tight around the spindle.. like i can literally move the record around because the gap is that big... I can prolly move it like 1-2 millimetres... i never really notice the hole when I am buying record because I am never cueing it up for anything.. Just listening to see if I like it. (plus you shouldn't scratch or play with the record in the store anyways in my opinion).

But anyways... Is this what you are referring to Nem? or is this a completely different problem??

Cheers.

Hey there Lazy,

Nah... the problems are slightly different. While the thing that you describe can be a pain in the ass when queing up, it's pretty easy to solve. What I used to do as a turntablist was to get the sticky labels from cassettes and put them on the inside... sorts it out a treat.
The problem I mean in that particular paragraph you quoted was refering to a problem from the manufacturer side i.e. the hole is actually not in the center of the disc. Completely ruins the record.

Cheers
Nem

Posted by DJ-Fuq on Jan-02-2004 21:34:

quote:
Originally posted by Boomer187
Vocal haters.

I think I only have 2 records that don't have vocals.

i have about 5 that have vocals lol

Posted by on Jan-03-2004 00:09:

quote:
Originally posted by Nemesis44
Hey there Lazy,

While the thing that you describe can be a pain in the ass when queing up, it's pretty easy to solve. What I used to do as a turntablist was to get the sticky labels from cassettes and put them on the inside... sorts it out a treat.
Cheers
Nem

Nice.
I will have to give that a shot.. And as for the hole not being centered.. Is there an easy way to figure this out.. or would it be pretty noticeable?

Cheers.

Posted by DannyO on Jan-03-2004 00:17:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ Lazy
Nice.
I will have to give that a shot.. And as for the hole not being centered.. Is there an easy way to figure this out.. or would it be pretty noticeable?

Cheers.

What you could do is, when your in the store, put the record on the platter and see if all the sides are equal, as in one part of the record isn't hanging over the side more than some other part, I think it would be pretty noticable though.

Posted by MERiDiAN5i2 on Jan-08-2004 20:24:

you can only get any two different tracks to match so close.

what it's really about is how sensitive your ears are - can you hear the drift in the headphones before it's even enough to notice on the speakers? can you correct for it, while your mixing, such that nobody knows it ever even got off matched at all?