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Chord progressions

One of my main problems is to come up with chord progressions that work well for trance.

Can some of the pro's share a few tips? I tried some of the 'usual' I-IV-V stuff but doesnt seem to work well for me.

I read somewhere that trance chords are usually minors. I'm not entirely sure why as Im only learning the theory myself at the moment.

[edit] on a semi related note, another good way to get a tune sounding pretty cool is this tip which I picked up yesterday - either from here or a diff forum, im not sure which.

basically, choose a tune you really like - i chose Motorcyle's ATRC - then think about what notes are in that tune. Try and recreate it in your head/sequencer and see what comes out. Unless your pretty darn good your not going to get it first time, but the resulting tune may be pretty reasonable. I managed to get the first two notes spot on from the main melody which I am well chuffed with, considering I have only been learning musical thoery for abotu two weeks!

Once you have the new melody, filling out the chords is easy as pie!

Re: Chord progressions

quote:

Originally posted by ravan Can some of the pro's share a few tips? I tried some of the 'usual' I-IV-V stuff but doesnt seem to work well for me.

Try moving up or down a third and changing major to minor when you do it. This is a very common chord change. Example (moves C-major to A-minor):
C-E-G
A-C-E

Also try moving up or down a tone or semi-tone. Example:
Eb-G-Bb
C#-F-G#

quote:

Also try moving up or down a tone or semi-tone.

Move WHAT?

quote:

Originally posted by Digital Aura Move WHAT?

black key/White key/black key (i hope, I don't know how to play piano)

I usually just play some random progressions on the keyboard while recording the midi notes, then listen to them over again, and decide what's best.

Really, I think it's all about messing around and listening to the stuff you're writing closely. A really easy way to write them is to try and use as many notes as possible from the original scale in the successive chords you write (a la naked angel :P)

I really love the principle of contrary motion. I'll give an example of what this is:

Say you play G4# F4# A4# D4#. At the same time (simultaneously) on the octave above it play F5# A5# F F6#.

This is called contrary motion because as you'll notice the top melody moves up, the bottom moves down, the top melody down, the bottom one up. I think this is a type of counterpoint. It sounds so dramatic (many movie scores use this strategy). Sounds better if you begin by playing the first melody to establish a harmonic context, then the second pass play both at the same time. The bigger the leaps, like the simultaneous D4# F6#, the more dramatic.

To give you idea of what your doing, your just adding intervals. So, the D4# and F6#, even though F6# is a couple of octaves away from the D#, is playing a minor third. Same goes for the other notes. Hope this helps.

quote:

Originally posted by Etherium I really love the principle of contrary motion. I'll give an example of what this is: Say you play G4# F4# A4# D4#. At the same time (simultaneously) on the octave above it play F5# A5# F F6#. This is called contrary motion because as you'll notice the top melody moves up, the bottom moves down, the top melody down, the bottom on up. I think this is a type of counterpoint. It sounds so dramatic (many movie scores use this strategy). Sounds better if you begin by playing the first melody to establish a harmonic context, then the second pass play both at the same time. The bigger the leaps, like the simultaneous D4# F6#, the more dramatic. To give you idea of what your doing, your just adding intervals. So, the D4# and F6#, even though F6# is a couple of octaves away from the D#, is playing a minor third. Same goes for the other notes. Hope this helps.

That is indeed a kind of counterpoint.

I made a little example to show anyone who doesn't understand what he's talking about what he means. The piano in this file starts with a low melody, then a higher one begins countering the lower one with opposite directions. Then a string progression begins, and after the kicks begin, etc. Bassline is just based on the scale.

mp3 - http://www.audiobeats.com/~cboor/counterpractice.mp3
flp - http://www.audiobeats.com/~cboor/counterpractice.flp

Sorry some of the stuff sounds so crappy. I tried to make it with all FL stuff except for the superwave, which you'll need to download if you don't have it.

Note the fact that there is a chord progression, but that it all happens in the same scale.

Nuclear - thats pretty awesome!

I realize you can go the hardcore trail-and-error route and just experiment the hell out of it, but I think you can do better if you have some toolbox / theoretical knowledge of what you're doing before you start doing random chords. So I'm loving these suggestions here so far!

Everyone has his/her own ways of course

You can use the original scale as a guide for the progression, though. IE, if you play a c minor triad, play a D minor or D# minor one next, and then mess around with the notes to get something in agreement of the progression. I usually just play around with them until I get a sound I want.

If you look at most chord progressions in songs, you'll see that they usually base themselves around a single scale (as I mentioned before, naked angel is a good example; though a whole bunch of chords are played in it, all of the notes in the chords are from a single scale, B minor)

Let me speak from experience:

Even a basic knowledge of music theory will help you write music better. Trial and error worked alright for me, but after one (one!) quarter of music theory in college, I was able to recognize WHY melodies and chords work.

And multiple quarters later, you learn many more interesting things.

As was mentioned earlier, most recent 'big' trance songs are in a minor key. It adds a bit of tension, while still allowing things to be upbeat.

And a ton of Psy/Goa is on the harmonic minor, diddling around the upper notes in the scale, around that augmented 2nd interval...

Here is something I whipped up using contrary motion. Notice in the third pass the cellos begin playing the counterpoint.

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]

Ikronix or anyone - care to share some actual samples of 'big hits' or just generic ones?

Doing the melodies is easy enough for me, but I am not very good with the chords. I guess I could perhaps load some midi files and look - maybe I'll try that

Great tips everyone!

Re: Chord progressions

quote:

Originally posted by ravan One of my main problems is to come up with chord progressions that work well for trance. Can some of the pro's share a few tips? I tried some of the 'usual' I-IV-V stuff but doesnt seem to work well for me.

You can always play your favourite track and use same time your synth for testing the melodies and chords! -> works for me very good

--
sebra

quote:

Originally posted by DJ_Ikronix Let me speak from experience: Even a basic knowledge of music theory will help you write music better. Trial and error worked alright for me, but after one (one!) quarter of music theory in college, I was able to recognize WHY melodies and chords work. And multiple quarters later, you learn many more interesting things. As was mentioned earlier, most recent 'big' trance songs are in a minor key. It adds a bit of tension, while still allowing things to be upbeat. And a ton of Psy/Goa is on the harmonic minor, diddling around the upper notes in the scale, around that augmented 2nd interval...

You mean augmented seventh? Augmented second is in the minor scale (3rd). Playing natural then occasionally augmented 7th's gives it that infected mushroom horror movie sound (though it can sound bad if you overuse the augmented 7ths...).

forgive the newbieness of this question but should chord progressions be mainly used for the pad sounds? My chords sound really lush with a nice fat pad playing them. If thats not what there used for, then I guess I can use a pad on them in one of my tracks anyway, as it sounds really nice!

My other question is when creating a faster/harder/darker sounding chord progression, is it more down to the instrument used of the chords? I tried playing the same chords with a pad and a dark hoover style synth and they really did sound nicer with the pad. Any advice on where to begin with the darker, hard trance/uk hard house sounds?

Mossy you gimp with a limp, gimme an email explaining as clearly as you can, what exactly you want to know bout chords.

I'll print it off and give it to my keyboard teacher.

What he doesnt know, isnt worth knowing.

I'm wondring if someone wil ask me what is the defenition of chords what should i need to say? how you will explain it?

quote:

Originally posted by Dave_Abr I'm wondring if someone wil ask me what is the defenition of chords what should i need to say? how you will explain it?

More then one finger on synth same time easy

quote:

Originally posted by Sebraaa12 More then one finger on synth same time easy

simpley putted...

quote:

Originally posted by chrispitcha Mossy you gimp with a limp, gimme an email explaining as clearly as you can, what exactly you want to know bout chords. I'll print it off and give it to my keyboard teacher. What he doesnt know, isnt worth knowing.

ask him what chords are good for a 150bpm track... seriously! I mean UK Hard house speeds. I reckon that chords arent really used that much in hard house but i could be wrong? Been caning HH tracks all day and all i can come up with is that they use very basic patterns like C-C-(vquick C)-E-C etc... nothing amazing, it seems to work though.

Regarding nice chords, try C Em G D with a nice pad sound. The change between D back to C sounds quality imo!

I really don't know how i make the chord progressions, i usually start with the lead progression and build under it.

quote:

Originally posted by Prop I really don't know how i make the chord progressions, i usually start with the lead progression and build under it.

That's also my method

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