Proper phrase construction - TranceAddict Forums

TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Production Studio
-- Proper phrase construction

Posted by FuzzyGreen on Jan-13-2004 19:33:

Proper phrase construction

Since everyone in my previous post went apeshit when I tried to talk structure in Trance, I'm going to start a new thread but change the subject a little. Lets talk phrase matching and construction.

In order for a track to be playable by a DJ it must follow certain phrase matching rules.

A phrase is a section of 32 beats. 4 phrases make up an intro. So it would look like this:

* | 32 | 32 | 32 | 32 | * (FYI this = 32 measures)

Usually at each phrase something will be added. After the first 4 phrases a major event should occur, this is where the DJ is going to switch over the emphasis of the old track to the new track. Lots of times this is when the bass comes in (prog tracks). In epic/melodic tracks this is usually when an arp or other high end verse starts in. Usually phrases are marked with a cymbol hit or some other effect to let the listener feel the new phrase hit. You can add dancable energy to a track by making a buildup at a phrase hit.

An outtro is the same thing but in reverse.

Feel free to add any comments or corrections, lets make this a usefull discussion.

Here is a reference link if you need more explanation:
Recesses DJ'ing hints and tips

Posted by Damie Mckeown on Jan-13-2004 19:39:

Yeah Im interested now but, ermm

We mostly use 4/4 anyway and bring in something every for or 8 bars, can you add some more detail in 'Bars' and something new?

anything? a crash?

Posted by J.L. on Jan-13-2004 19:58:

basically, I don't believe that there is no "set structure" bla bla bla...

However, I try to give the illusion of the track getting bigger and bigger all the time... For example, at every new phrase, I add another layer of synths, percussion, melody, bass, whatever...

Naturally, there is only a certain limit of how many things you can try to fit in the whole track so that's why you need to try to learn how to take things out of the track without making it feel like it has lost any energy...

Generally, if a track has the illusion that it keeps adding on more and more, it will build up the tension, energy, and excitement... I've noticed that this has worked well in my own track and in many "professional" tracks I've noticed the thing that make them exciting is because it always feels like it's building up... even during the outro...

Just my 2 cents... don't have to agree or anything...

Posted by Dj Thy on Jan-13-2004 21:54:

Well, that's also the reason why it is said that most electronic 4/4 music (and trance in particular) is formula�c. It's easier for dj's to mix, but if you heard 100 of tunes that roughly follow that rule, most tunes will sound the same to you, as you know what will be coming next.

But, I don't remember which wise man or woman once said : "you can only break the rules, if you know them..."

Posted by ManTrance on Jan-13-2004 22:17:

Am sort of understanding what has been said here.

Structure is important, but not rule bound.

*DJ THY* - Ure dead right!! Know the rules, then break em, thats how you get your original sound!!!

Liking this thread!!!

Posted by TranceMuzik02 on Jan-13-2004 23:13:

As long as it follows multiples of 4 then does it really matter?

Posted by hey cheggy on Jan-14-2004 04:54:

As long as changes only happen on a multiple of 8 bars, then everything is sweet in my book. I don't know about this crap that if you want dj's to play your song, you have to follow a set rule. Maybe if you want crap dj's to play your track who can't mix, but anyone with some decent skills should be able to mix a well made track.

Posted by State of Matter on Jan-14-2004 19:38:

As long as the phrases are multiples of 16 it doesn't matter.

Once again, need to be more careful in the way you say things. Listen to some anjuna-beats stuff, they very often will bring in melodies after 16 bars, and then after 32, and then again after 16. It's just whatever suits the track.

Posted by FuzzyGreen on Jan-14-2004 21:29:

Well I'm happy to read that you guys value originality in your productions, it's ideas like that, that will evolve trance and keep it fresh.

But I still think you guys miss the point of this thread. Maybe it is how I'm presenting it.

It has nothing to do with being inovative or original, it has to do with making something that is fun and sounds great in a DJ mix set. Something that a DJ would want to use to add to his mix set that adds to the story he is telling in his mix. Something that adds just the right energy and *feel* to a mix. Yeah, you can make a track that is a great opener, but I want to discuss and create tracks that seamlessly mix into a DJ set and get the audience to go crazy, cry, trip out, or throw their hands in the air and scream. Whatever the intended feeling is.

If a track has any loud melodies or strong chords within the first 32 measures it will be hard to fit it into a set without finding a similar key matched record.

Go listen to your trance mp3 collection. I bet you that 90% of the songs have no strong chords or melodies within the first 32 measures.

Maybe I only think in this way because I've been dj'ing for a few years now and my mind is thinking in that way, who knows.

Posted by Damie Mckeown on Jan-14-2004 22:44:

Yes, you take out most things musical for the first set of bars and have mainly only the beat and soundeffects/vocal bits, then bring in the bassline after about 32 beats and basicly for the outro do the same backwards.
The shit in the middle shouldnt have any rules

Posted by Luke Terry on Jan-15-2004 00:39:

difference is the key, as long as it follows the 4/4 rule and something happens at least every 16 bars during a mix it's all good, mixing a tune that kicks in every 32 into another 32, etc. sounds somewhat predictable in my experience.