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-- McGuinty + Photo Radar = Grand Theft
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McGuinty + Photo Radar = Grand Theft

McGuinty is a focking tool. It's bad enough that he lied about everything he would do once in office, but now he's going to steal money from the public with this photo radar crap.

I'm pissed.

itikia

From the Toronto Star website:


Photo radar back in the picture
McGuinty sees it as a cash generator
Introduced by NDP; killed by ToriesSystem targets speeding drivers


RICHARD BRENNAN
QUEEN'S PARK BUREAU

Premier Dalton McGuinty is paving the way for the return of controversial photo radar to generate money for the cash-strapped province.

"I have long been a supporter of photo radar," McGuinty said yesterday of the program designed to catch speeders. "It is a revenue generator, absolutely."

He later said in an interview photo radar is "on the table."

Attorney-General Michael Bryant said McGuinty "is committed to it. It's going to happen."

Since being elected in October, McGuinty's government has been desperately searching for ways to trim the provincial deficit, estimated to be more than $5.6 billion.

Photo radar was introduced in Ontario in 1994 under the NDP government of former premier Bob Rae, but the Mike Harris Tory government moved almost immediately to kill it following the 1995 election.

Harris was appealing to critics who complained vociferously the high-tech system to snap photos of speeders' licence plates was nothing more than a tax on motorists and an invasion of privacy.

Critics also complained photo radar did little to deter aggressive drivers from tailgating and lane hopping.

Photo radar, which features cameras mounted in unmarked vans, was in place just 11 months before the Tories pulled the plug.

But during that short time, 240,000 tickets were issued for fines totalling $16 million.

Under the system, the car's owner got a copy of the photo in the mail, along with a hefty fine, regardless of who was driving.

Photo radar was replaced with the "highway rangers," a select squad of Ontario Provincial Police officers formed to crack down on bad driving.

British Columbia Premier Gordon Campbell's Liberals scrapped photo radar in 2001, but it remains in place in some provinces, including Alberta and Manitoba.

NDP and Tory critics accused the Liberals of misleading voters by not talking about photo radar, toll roads or higher user fees during last fall's provincial election campaign.

"The Premier's done a complete reversal on photo radar. He wasn't a fan of it 12 years ago. All of a sudden now McGuinty embraces photo radar," NDP House leader Peter Kormos told reporters.

Indeed, a handful of high-profile McGuinty cabinet ministers are on the record as having denounced the move as a cash grab with no connection to public safety.

"All it's really done has made the coffers of the treasury swell with amounts of money that are starting to verge on the obscene," then-opposition member Monte Kwinter told a reporter in 1994.

Kwinter is now community safety minister in charge of policing in the province.

Also in 1994, current Management Board Chair Gerry Phillips labelled photo radar as "just cash machines.''

``They're a gold mine for the province."

Finance Minister Greg Sorbara told the Legislature during his opposition days in 1994 that "just for the benefit of the French-language translation service, the correct translation of `photo-radar' is `cash register' in English."

Jim Bradley, who is now tourism minister, echoed those sentiments at the time.

"I simply believe that the primary purpose of photo radar is without a doubt to get money for the Ontario government," Bradley told the Legislature.

Asked about photo radar during the 1999 election campaign, McGuinty said he had "no intention of putting it forward," but did say it was a possibility in the future.

Tory MPP Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North) accused McGuinty of saying anything to voters to get elected.

"It's something that wasn't one of their promises, but obviously it's a form of a tax grab," Dunlop said.

"Mr. McGuinty is looking for a way that he can grab a few dollars here and there.

``Obviously it wasn't part of the platform."

"I think it's fairly clear he's misled Ontarians on a lot of different issues," Dunlop said. "Photo radar? I wouldn't be surprised if he did that as well."

Kwinter said he had not given the re-introduction of photo radar a moment's thought.

"I haven't turned my mind to it," he said, but conceded he is not against the idea.

photo radar is great. if you're breaking the law then you deserve the fine. it's not hard to slow down by the radar sites. i'd much prefer photoradar to some tricky cop hiding somewhere. photoradar doesn't harm those who obey the law.

quote:

Originally posted by failsafe photo radar is great. if you're breaking the law then you deserve the fine. it's not hard to slow down by the radar sites. i'd much prefer photoradar to some tricky cop hiding somewhere. photoradar doesn't harm those who obey the law.

I think you missed the point. The only reason why McGuinty wants this system put in place is to generate revenue. He does not care whether or not you obey the law and actually in this case he would prefer if you broke it.

Now don't you think there is something ethically wrong with that? I mean, laws are in place for reasons OTHER than to generate revenue.

itikia

quote:

Originally posted by itikia The only reason why McGuinty wants this system put in place is to generate revenue. itikia

Be that as it may, this incentive will still prove to reduce speeding in areas that it's placed. Frankly that's all I care about, but I completely see where you're coming from. Unfortunately polititians will be polititians, and I think it's useless to question their morality as their priorities are different than that of a "common man".

So if the ending result will be people obeying the law more often, I'm all for it, no matter what McGuinty's reason was for placing the radar.

Re: McGuinty + Photo Radar = Grand Theft

quote:

Originally posted by itikia Photo radar was introduced in Ontario in 1994 under the NDP government of former premier Bob Rae, but the Mike Harris Tory government moved almost immediately to kill it following the 1995 election.

Sorry to interject this little political debate with a useless post, but government looks so weird spelled the correct way!

quote:

Originally posted by itikia I think you missed the point. The only reason why McGuinty wants this system put in place is to generate revenue. He does not care whether or not you obey the law and actually in this case he would prefer if you broke it. Now don't you think there is something ethically wrong with that? I mean, laws are in place for reasons OTHER than to generate revenue. itikia

It kills two birds with one stone though, doesn't it?
Granted, McGuinty's beginning to tick me off too - especially by not donating a portion of gas tax to public transit - but in this case, the downfall comes to those who are doing what they shouldn't be doing anyways: speeding.

One further point - if the money from speeding tickets is going back into public services, isn't it worth it?
Shouldn't gas tax help pay for public transit?
Shouldn't cigarette taxes help pay for health care?

damn liberals...

Re: Re: McGuinty + Photo Radar = Grand Theft

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Sorry to interject this little political debate with a useless post, but government looks so weird spelled the correct way!

Are you sure it's correct?

Maybe the politicians would be better if they learned to spell it our way...

Hell, McGuinty's broke like 3 major campaign promises already.

With many cuts forecasted (and people were screaming Tories were bad), our dear Premier needs more cash.

Now is he doing something illegal to obtaining the cash? Nope.

it's reasons like this that I've started voting green.

It dosen't matter who you vote in though, they'll lie through thier teeth to run your life....

quote:

Originally posted by failsafe photo radar is great. if you're breaking the law then you deserve the fine. it's not hard to slow down by the radar sites. i'd much prefer photoradar to some tricky cop hiding somewhere. photoradar doesn't harm those who obey the law.

Quick reponse the the above, they're not stationary radar sites, they place them in trucks parked on the side of the road, they're mobile sites (some of them anyway).

The speed limits need to be increased, they're too old. 100KM/h on the 4xx highways, are you kidding?

Second (general to everyone) yes he's breaking campaign promises, he also was not aware of the huge deficit we have because of our previous government. Basing your goals on false information is bound to change those goals, it's inevitable.

the government can do anything. quit ur bitching Ari

coming from Alberta where we have this, I am all for it. deterant or not, it is punishment for breaking the law. And if you werent driving your car, then why did you make the irresponsible decions of lending it to somebody who was going to break the law?
Also, photo radar doesnt add demerits to your liscence, so thats a good thing(insurance wise)

ikita, are you agaisnt any kind of ticket issued by law enforcement then? After all it must be some form of money grab right?

If you're knowinly breaking the law then you're asking for whatever fine you get via photoradar. It's that simple. It's not like this is some form of tax that's going to degrade peoples standard of living. This is simply a penalty to those that break the law, no different then a littering fine.

meh. Speeding by itself is not the enemy.

The difficulty lies in classifying those who speed with those who drive recklessly/carelessly - there is some crossover of course - but they do not go hand in hand as is often assumed.

For instance, yesterday the weather was beyond nasty - yet there was some mofo in his wannabe 4x4 (sidekick) flying going about 110 on the highway and then he had to brake and he skidded sideways for a bit across 2 lanes (on the 400) before regaining control.. everyone else was going at about 70.. I'd much rather have them (and tailgaters) / drivers who cut others off / drivers who hog the left lane given fines than someone on a clear stretch of road going over the speed limit.

well, I think we should be willing to allow a few promises to be broken.

There's not a whole lot you can do with such a huge deficit. Instead of keeping the promises they made, they are gonna spend the next few years cleaning up the mess the Tories left.

Campaign promises would have been broken no matter who is running the government... they just don't have the cash.

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper meh. Speeding by itself is not the enemy. The difficulty lies in classifying those who speed with those who drive recklessly/carelessly - there is some crossover of course - but they do not go hand in hand as is often assumed.

Exactly, speed is not the problem. According to our way of thinking and how dangerous speed is, apply that same thinking to Germany and half the drivers should be dead! Drive on the autobahns, it's not that dangerous. People speed, but they also drive responsibly and abide by the laws and unwritten rules of the road, a little respect for other drivers goes a long ways.

quote:

Originally posted by tw1tch The speed limits need to be increased, they're too old. 100KM/h on the 4xx highways, are you kidding? Second (general to everyone) yes he's breaking campaign promises, he also was not aware of the huge deficit we have because of our previous government. Basing your goals on false information is bound to change those goals, it's inevitable.

I agree with the first, disagree with the second. I'm not entirely convinced that Dalton had no idea what he was getting in for. He's not new to politics - he led the opposition for how long? - he must have had some sense of the state of the federal budget.

Nah, he saw the book that the Tories left and thought how the fuck can we give the municipal gov't money when we have to pay down the 5.6 B debt. So I saw on the news that all the money would go to the municipal gov't's all over the province. We have had photo radar in certain intersections for a while now. At least they are not putting in the famous british speed cameras for a cash grab.

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper meh. Speeding by itself is not the enemy. The difficulty lies in classifying those who speed with those who drive recklessly/carelessly - there is some crossover of course - but they do not go hand in hand as is often assumed. For instance, yesterday the weather was beyond nasty - yet there was some mofo in his wannabe 4x4 (sidekick) flying going about 110 on the highway and then he had to brake and he skidded sideways for a bit across 2 lanes (on the 400) before regaining control.. everyone else was going at about 70.. I'd much rather have them (and tailgaters) / drivers who cut others off / drivers who hog the left lane given fines than someone on a clear stretch of road going over the speed limit.

You're totally right Del, the difficulty then becomes policing these tools. How do we do this? Of course, it's near impossible. This is why speeding is enforced so ridiculously much already... It's so easy (and much more lucrative) for some cop (or camera) to sit there with a radar gun. This = lazyman's justice.

speed limits should not be raised, as it is, gas consumption raises significantly in most cars after 90, its not only unsafe, but more danger to the environment.

quote:

Originally posted by itikia I think you missed the point. The only reason why McGuinty wants this system put in place is to generate revenue. He does not care whether or not you obey the law and actually in this case he would prefer if you broke it. Now don't you think there is something ethically wrong with that? I mean, laws are in place for reasons OTHER than to generate revenue. itikia

It doesnt matter. Your point seems very hollow. the fact of the matter is if your'e driving within the speed limits then this shouldnt bother you at all. or are you one of those speed freaks? cause if you are then tough luck. who gives a shit man, as long as you obey the law, then what do you care.

juss outta curiousity, but has anyone here every gotten hit with a ticket cuz of photo-radar ?

Repeat after me:

damn liberals...

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