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-- When nothing goes your way.. Quit? - Need advise

When nothing goes your way.. Quit? - Need advise

Hey kids... I'm going to use this space as a blog, I guess - but for some hope of peer support.

I have a pretty decent set up at home, some of you may have even seen the pictures of it. Well, for the last 2-3 months I found myself deeply disapointed in my inability to move out of the rut and actually found myself totally uninspired to play any music.

Let me explain.. I had been playing music for some time now but haven't been able to take a serious approach to my music creation. I had some great ideas for tunes, don't get me wrong, but for some unknown reason I only get them when I am not recording. The moment I hit "record" button it's as if I hit a "mute" button on my ideas. Only rubbish comes out. Furthermore, I found myself frustrated with my inability to master the gear and lack of time to spend pouring over useless documentation. So, I started down the path of selling off my gear. Sold my Triton Studio, XP 60, Z1, and bunch of soft synths. Now I have few synths left and when I do play them - I no longer get the inspiration I used to. Tweaking the knobs no longer produces any emotion even if I do come across a decent sound.

Music is my hobby - I don't expect it to be a career but at the same time I wish I had at least one track from start to finish that I could at least listen to. I had been playing with gear and software for the last 3 years but still have not been able to get everything mixed and ideas down into bits just yet. I hear a great trance tune and it only upsets me further, knowing that I cannot match that level of skill or creativity. I even find myself trying to imitate other's work - something I definitely hated doing before, as it limits originality in material.

So, I am faced with a dillema - get rid of the gear and find other hobby, (e.g. Play station 2) or what?

I'd hate to think that I lost the desire to progress further but I find the information and lack thereof overwhelming. The concept of being a musician, an engineer, and mixer - even as a hobby, is taking its toll. I figured that after 3 years if you have nothing to show for it - you might as well count it as time wasted.

So, that's my whine for the day, and who knows - perhaps a warning to others?

I usually get all kinds of great ideas for tunes when I'm out partying, and surely enough by the time I get home and in front of my computer I've totally lost them. Most of my good tracks have come from playing around with stuff, hacking out something rudimentary and then building on it from there.

Not sure what to suggest to you, if you've been producing for 3 years and have indeed come up with NOTHING then maybe music production isn't for you. I doubt that's the case however, and would recommend you just take a break or something.

On copying other people's tunes, I really don't think that's a bad idea. Some of my best sounds have been created when I've tried to copy someone elses and failed, and at the very least it teaches you what to do with your gear.

Dunno man, take a week or four off and see if that rekindles your desire to hit the studio.

Well I think we all get great ideas. I always come up with cool songs in my head but I have no muscial tallent, so I cannot get the melodies down as I do not know which notes/chords they are.

I use to dj heaps and then I got sick of it. My mate went through the same process and sold his gear, while I kept mine. I'm glad I kept cos after a 9 month break, I now enjoy getting on the decks again.

My point is that you may well regret selling all your gear and giving up. The stuff shouldn't depreciate in value too much over the period of 6 months, so why don't you power down for a while and then come back to it later on and see if you enjoy it more making a fresh start.

Well, first off, makin good music is a matter of oportunity, u cant force u to create good dongs whenever u want, when u sit down in front of your gear, cuz our mind and our creativity cant be controlled that much. These oportunities comes whenever u dun expect and for whatever reasons that may make u inspired, and if u dont hold it, it fades, so first thing u hav to do is make sure u dont lose that chances when they come.
Do whatever u need to make your thoughts into pratical stuff that can be accessed when u need. Write the melodies (sing it to your sound recorder if u cant write), write the sequence for the rhythm u imagined, whatever, just save the good ideias, even if u dun hav the spirit for working on them at that time, cuz u will, sonner or later.
Dun try working directly on it cuz u will distract your mind and lose the original good ideia, this is for sure, only do that when u hav everything set up so u can head straight to the direction u planed and dun lose yourself in the process.

And bout motivation, looks like u r too severe to yourself. U surely get tired and unmotivated by anything that u do all the time and give everything from yourself to it. Try not getting so comprometted and demanding bout it. Like u said, do other hobbies... i do playstation 2 too, i work out, go beach, read, go out with my sis, and lots of other stuff, and believe me, maybe it slows u down, but surely makes u happy with all that u do. U need to refresh yourself, forget music for a while and hav some fun with something else too. When u less expect u will be caught again by the magic of some sound and wish to try makin yours, so dun be harsh selling your stuff...
everything has its cycles and up-down times, if u get blinded by the down time and get harsh, u will regret it when things change back to normal. When i sit too much on my machine, i wish to delete my sequencer and give up, but then i know that im just tired/frustrated and leave it for some while.

If what u r doing is not workin/pleasing u, think on a diferent way and strategy to do it and try it, if it still dun work, think on yet another and try it again, one of them will work, otherwise other people would never be susseful, but many are, so... not impossible

Sorry for the long reply.

i know i sound like ur grandad...but never give up.....even i've been trying to make music for something like 3 1/2 yrs & the best piece i've produced is shit....

as others have been saying ....keep it cool....things will surely fall into place someday....

Hi. I would like to say first that, I have been making music using a real synth and cubase since i was 16 years old. Now i am 27, and i am still making music.. I had a 2.5 years brake in between. And I sold my gear once before, which to this moment I do regreat. Making music is my hobby, i am not warried if i get signed or not, honestly i do it for the love of music and it's something that i can get to do when everything alse is either boring or i need to relax, and spend some time with myself. Once before one of my tracks got played in a local club, but it is a while ago, and it wasn't eaven trance.. It was dance.. Sure the feeling of people dancing to your tune was good, but i am not going to give everything alse in life just to sit in my studio to produce a track that people will forget in a year or two, unless it's one of those that you still remember for next 10 years. but You have to be really lucky to make one of those, Good luck to anyone on producing a classic : ) I am only talking from experiance, so i am not saying it aplies to everyone. It does apply to me and fiew of my friends who also produce music or did at a certain point of their lives..
I think selling of gear is a bad idea, or at list selling it all. If you are 100% sure you wont to quit, at list seave one good synth, the one you love the most, or did, because I sold all my gear and after 2.5 years i was so mad at myself i had to go out and get a synth.. No software vsti or tracker did it for me, I had to have a hardware synth. I know right now that till i die, I will alvays have at list one real synth at my home. And i will never sell it again. Right now i have a yamaha cs6x anda virus c and i love em both. They do what i wont them to..
I think some people spend to much time trying to produce, and they get burned. Producing can get to you quite easy, when say nothing sounds good. It's alvays good to take brakes. Have some other hobbies. I go mountain biking, play games, go out with the wife, go out to clubs, spend time with friends, and other stuff. You have one life, and it's good to do or at list try to do other things, cause you might regreat that you didn't do that later as well.I usually touch my gear on daily basis, but there are days that i wont touch it for 2-3 days in a row. Ussually busy doing something alse..

For example two of my friends sold their gear before.. Now they come over to my house, and first thing the do is sit in my studio, just to play aroiund afor a fiew minutes, they say they miss it. Yet they can't afford to go out and spend a lot of money on hardware.. And they tell me how much they regreat selling their gear.

One thing for sure, unless you have a pretty good damn job, and will have lot's of money left after paying bills, when you get older it's harder to get gear. I got tons of bills, and i try to squeeze my virus c payments in my monthly allowance. There is house payments. car, or a second, car, all thease bills, and not to mention when you get kids.. Not everyone is making huge bucks thease days. What i am trying to say if you buying gear and live at home with your parents still, it's really easy to put a studio together. It's way harder to do that later on.. Unlesss you're making lot's of cash.. One thing is good that my wife, like's my tunes, and she's ok with me blowing some money on that stuff. This is one thing i don't have to warry about. She has her own studio, but using vst instruments only and a controller, i occassionally let her use my computer, cause she love's the virus..

But i can only tell you to think before you sell and give it all up. is it worth it?. Give it some time.. there may be a time when you wont to make a track and you won't be able to cause you'll have nothing. You'll come to thease boards, or just think in your head that you made a mistake selling it all. And you will regreat it. Ask yourself what made you start making music in in the first place?
You never know one day you might make a hit.. and make some money form it, and everyone will listen to your song for a while.. I am sure that's going to be a good feeling.. Making music is a cool hobby as well. Not a lot of people can do it.. Should hear the stuff my frineds try to make when I let them play around in the studio, I am talking about the friends that didn't have gear.

Cynemph, I can really empathize with what you're going through. Now, mabye I'm off when I say this, but it seems like you're letting music become too important to you. By that I mean, maybe you're trying to find self-worth through making music and when you can't finish a tune you become dispirited. Well, this is understandable and something very common and very human.

My suggestion is to find some degree of balance. Keep those soft synths but get a PS2 and 100 percent Grand Theft Auto as well. Get a girlfriend if you don't have one and make relationships with actual people, not cyberfriends, a priority.

You probably got into this hobby because you wanted to express yourself and if you happen to get one of your choons played in a club, then hey, all the better. You're a classic perfectionist. A lot of us are, me included. To some people, the elements of production come naturally. For some, they are forced to become academic before they can get an equivalent result. Break it down, what are you NOT good at? Is your structure and arrangement weak? Well, buy several cds, take detailed notes about everything you hear. Do this for weeks on end, just focusing on it alone. Then fire up the sequencer. Is your theory weak? Study theory, but don't get so far into the minutiae that it becomes laborious. Those are just a couple of pointers.

My biggest tip is like I said before, strike a balance. You won't be BT, or fill in the blank with your favorite producer, any time soon, but if you work at production (in an academic manner if that's what it takes) over the next couple of years, while at the same time placing emphasis on personal relationships and your professional life, you'll knock out that first tune of yours, and you'll have good people around you to enjoy it with.

Keep on producin'.

Etherium, that is some seriously well-balanced and intelligent advice and it certainly encourages me.

I kind of feel like you do CynepMeH, ( I have hundreds of tune starts lying around but cos I got so perfectionist and down on myself I never finished them) so it's encouraging to see others do. We aren't alone in this stuff, though working for hours in your bedroom can often make you feel like you are.

Please, don't give up!

I was really encouraged when I listened to one of L-Vee's early tunes (Magnetix - sphere of loneliness/groove sonar), it's not a patch production-wise on his new stuff - (still good though, granted). Yet now he's out of this world only a few years on.

devils advocate...

I say...if there's no love...quit now.

Lots of times that initial drive lasts for a year or so then dies.
This is what separates the wheat from the chaff ( so to speak ).

Great ideas are one thing...as you know. I am finding out as well that its easy to say..."oh, I know I could make a kick-butt track" only to find out you can't get past the first 2 bars of percussion.

You've put 3 yrs into it...I think you know yourself and have gauged the situation...no point in kicking that horse's corpse any longer.

quote:

Originally posted by Etherium Cynemph, I can really empathize with what you're going through. Now, mabye I'm off when I say this, but it seems like you're letting music become too important to you. By that I mean, maybe you're trying to find self-worth through making music and when you can't finish a tune you become dispirited. Well, this is understandable and something very common and very human. My suggestion is to find some degree of balance. Keep those soft synths but get a PS2 and 100 percent Grand Theft Auto as well. Get a girlfriend if you don't have one and make relationships with actual people, not cyberfriends, a priority. You probably got into this hobby because you wanted to express yourself and if you happen to get one of your choons played in a club, then hey, all the better. You're a classic perfectionist. A lot of us are, me included. To some people, the elements of production come naturally. For some, they are forced to become academic before they can get an equivalent result. Break it down, what are you NOT good at? Is your structure and arrangement weak? Well, buy several cds, take detailed notes about everything you hear. Do this for weeks on end, just focusing on it alone. Then fire up the sequencer. Is your theory weak? Study theory, but don't get so far into the minutiae that it becomes laborious. Those are just a couple of pointers. My biggest tip is like I said before, strike a balance. You won't be BT, or fill in the blank with your favorite producer, any time soon, but if you work at production (in an academic manner if that's what it takes) over the next couple of years, while at the same time placing emphasis on personal relationships and your professional life, you'll knock out that first tune of yours, and you'll have good people around you to enjoy it with. Keep on producin'.

Thanks for all the kind words and encouragement. It's good to know that others go through ups and downs as well. I appreciate the advise and perspectives and I do think that getting rid of the gear is not a good idea.

I had surrounded myself with myriad of books and actually became to involved, to academic. All I wanted to do initially is make music that at least I can listen to (one of those "only mother could love" type choons) =). Yet, somehow I got wondered off into a fifth dimension, into world of Nyquist theorems, the art of tape saturation, and various music theory books. All that info must have caused "stream overflow" and along the way I just looked at that and panicked. Hell, I haven't even connected my HD recording interface to PC since I reorganized my "studio", which now has been over 3 months! And you're dead on right about the "perfectionist" and with this statement "For some, they are forced to become academic before they can get an equivalent result"

Yeah, looks like I need to get less critical of the tasks and start one tune at the time...

I do regret selling the Triton Studio though...

I'm not gonna quit but I will need to make some mind arrangements...

If you had similar experience, post it too - it would be like our self-support group...

"Hi, my name is XXXX and I'm a no-good musician.." everyone: "Hi XXXX"

Got a suggestion: Maybe play your tunes to non-musos? I've just done this with a tune I've currently been slapping myself with for production faults but when I played it to my friends who are into trance but not production they loved it and I heard it with fresh new ears - "hey, actually that's pretty good! Wow, I did that? HAHAHA!" It was so encouraging!

I guess we're all on that journey and can get discouraged easily by those who are ahead of us. Man, though a man falls seven times, he rises again - in this case if we keep picking ourselves up when we struggle and keep on, I reckon we'll get there.

HI ... I'm Digital Aura...and I suck at drums.

quote:

I do regret selling the Triton Studio though...

yeah...I was gonna ask why you would do that...its so versatile it would have been the LAST thing I sold off.

I won't bother askin how much you sold it for, as that would bring back a flood of pain to you.

Sorry , bro!

Re: HI ... I'm Digital Aura...and I suck at drums.

quote:

Originally posted by Digital Aura yeah...I was gonna ask why you would do that...its so versatile it would have been the LAST thing I sold off. I won't bother askin how much you sold it for, as that would bring back a flood of pain to you. Sorry , bro!

Actually - I didn't loose on selling it. I sold the 61-key version with CDR for $2200, - what I paid. I do have the expansion cards still sitting, waiting for a 76-key recipient

hopefully, I'll have some cash sometime soon to buy it again, I do miss it. BTW, ever heard the "midnight sun" demo on triton studio??? WOW!

I recently took a break from production, but now I've returned and I'm all the better for it. I'm begining to create quite nice stuff now, full of little faults but I learn from it all. Something sounds bad to me, I'll rectify it then or make it right in the next peice I make.

I also found it useful to learn music theoryand the theory of my software then invested in a quite cheap controller keyboard to let me play about more.

Ok well I'm no Armin, but I'll tell you my story and maybe you can learn something from it. Trance music has been a passion of mine since I first discovered it back in 96. Up until last year I never really thought about producing. I just loved listening to great tunes. I was in university, working weekends, girlfriend, and I had a second passion which was bodybuilding, and I was very focused on that. Then one day while browsing the user forums I came across this production forum and I was amazed at how many people were producing trance with just computers and software. so i decided to try out fruityloops and I found it really fun, even though I had no idea what I was doing, it was very enjoyable. For the first 2 months, I would use it on and off, whenever I had time. Then one day I came up with a track (that sucks ass by the way, when I hear it now), that i thought was awesome! I was so proud that I started using fruity more and more. Around this time I was approached by a bodybuilder in my gym who had done the Canadian nationals. He brought me in his office and told me he thought that i had a great body and I got a great shot at competition, and he would train me free of charge. I told him I'd think about it, then during the next month I really hit fruity hardcore, broke up with my gf because of it, quit my weekend job, and I just graduated from university and didnt even go to my graduation ceremony. Trance production had taken over me, and I started to neglect my gym training and I told the guy who wanted to train me that I wasn't gonna do it. My friends thought I was crazy, turning down an opportunity like that, but I told them. I'm gonna make trance and make it big. Then around 6 months had passed , one night I came up with a track, I knew right away I had something good. One dj from miami told me it was awesome and I should sent it to ATS records (a record label with artists like Mat Silver who I look up too). I sent a sample and the next day got a reply, " like your melody !!! it is a very good one !!! no joke�Where do you come from, mate ?And what are your thoughts about it ?A remix ? a release on a label". I started screaming and running around the house I emailed him back and for 3 week I didn't get a reply, and pretty much thought it was 2 good 2 be true. Then I got the big email, "It is not Christmas and it is not your birthday�. BUT !!! We want to release your track on ABOVE THE SKY RECORDS / UK next year !!!Now you can smile or do what ever you want to do J.It is not very often that we decided to push a rookie !!!"
This email really floored me, and I couldn't believe it. Ok I still havent completed the song because I'm setting up my new studio very soon, as I work on a 866mhz piece of crap. But I've gotten a recent email and they haven't forgotten me, they are being very patient with me.
Ok, too me my productions still suck, and I have a long way to go. It's been less than a year since I picked up fruity. But The point of this story is this . Whatever I did in life, whether it be getting a university degree, competitive bodybuilding , or trance production, I did with passion. When you have passion for something you will dedicate yourself to it, you will give 100%, and you will keep trying and pushing yourself until you get it right. I used the same concepts in bodybuilding, in school, i Do with producing. Whether spending late nights in the library studying for midterms, or eat 6 meals a day, training 2 hours 7 times a week and running 1 hour in the cold at 5am in the morning, and drinking a diet coke while watching my friend drinking beer and eating mcdonalds at 3am in the morning. All these things add up to success. I take the same approach to everything I do in life. My passion in life comes from my Lord Jesus Christ. He gives me the strength, everything I do is for His glory. I hope this helps you to realize your dreams. God Bless

quote:

Originally posted by Sloouh I also found it useful to learn music theoryand the theory of my software then invested in a quite cheap controller keyboard to let me play about more.

I just started producing its good to know sucking is normal..lol
i was lookin around at diffrent bio's of other producers and most of them have some sort of theory background wether its piano lessons or school... i just finished 5 years of high school music so i'm prolly gonna take piano to learn more about chords and stuff...

Oh! i almost forgot i have the same problem with rembering good idea's for songs... i carry my cell on me it small and convenient and i can record it for later

Hm.. how about capturing your music ideas in your sleep? I had the most amazing tune in my head in my dream. It would have been probably the most amazing tune if I could somehow capture it and then produce it - it was just fucking sick... when I woke up all I could remember how great it was but couldn't remember the melody...

Can't wait for the computers to advance enough to hook up to your brain so you could capure your musical ideas as easy as speaking.

I bet whoever comes up with this idea will get a Nobel prize.

Amen, bro

i.e. disciplined repetition of positive actions over extended periods of time.

And - lose the perfectionism. Just get it done. Check out "The Artist's Way"

Some excellent posts here, must admit this is a quality thread!

I've been playing the guitar for over 8 years and became pretty darn good at it. I still have so much to learn. (I've stopped playing guitar now as my focus has moved to trance..) For 4 years I sucked hard at the guitar. My parents wouldnt let me quit. They knew that once I started belting out the real shit I would enjoy the guitar for myself. This was so true!
The point of this all is- Music doesnt happen overnight, but it does happen if you are dedicated, like trancenrg69 suggested. I neglected music theory as alot of guitartists do. Now I'm learning it all over again and i'm not enjoying it, but I know once I can play the keyboard- patterns will emerge and everything will come together.

Alot of beginners jump at this all too fast, realise its bloody hard to do something decent in a short time and quit.

Take a step back and decide if you are willing to dedicate many years of your life to this with the beginning years being the hardest and at times borning and fruitless. 4 years of the guitar for me was shit. The next 4 years after gave me so many rewarding experiences. It was well worth the investment.

quote:

Originally posted by DinaireFan1 Amen, bro i.e. disciplined repetition of positive actions over extended periods of time. And - lose the perfectionism. Just get it done. Check out "The Artist's Way"

So much for "instant gratification" and "positive reinforcement", eh? Oh well, perfection takes ages, some never acheive it, some get it right in a short period of time.

Don't cringe when you read the following. Few days I was sitting around and thinking about the whole composing thing and the "rule of accelerating returns" (for more info on this read Ray Kurtzweil's "The age of spiritual machines" - best comp sci book of all times). First, the ideas for music come to some of you naturally; others have to find inspiration or maybe even mimick someone else - then you wonder off on a tangent and get your style. Well, if you look at music as soundwaves and ideas for music as the same cyclic patterns, you'd realize that ideas are circling around in your mind constantly. You just have to have your internal "receiver" and "recorder" on at the same time. Once you learn how to "ride" these waves of creativity, you begin to develop your style and ideas are a lot easier to spot in endless waves of rubbish. Moby had over 640 songs on his hard drive when he created his album "18" - not that I liked the album too much, but it had given me the idea that some songs are meant to be classics, some need some polishing and some are just throw-aways. Like diamonds, not every single one is perfect and some end up as chips for encrustment for others. So, wrapping up my philosophical rambling, I'd like to say that only when you begin to realize your potential, is when you trully appreciate all the things that you've done and that happened to you. As far as accelerating returns go - after you cross the threshhold and get the idea right, the next one will be easier, the one after is easier still, and then it will flow like water.

Computer is a tool - learn it like you'd learn how to walk. Once you can use it like your hand and your eyes and your brain, the rest is just a technicality. I'm not giving up on music - I've got some great inspiration here and I am pushing ahead. Even if it takes me a lifetime, I will continue to do what I do - that's the only way. Who knows, maybe one day you'll be saying "hey, isn't that the guy who almost gave up?"

Keep the thoughts comming, it's definitely interesting of how other TAs are making headway in this demanding choice of hobby.

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