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I have lost faith in my country

After watching the Presidential address, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Just about 70-80% of the speech I disagreed with and problem is that 70-80% of Bush wants will pass through Congress. Concepts such as school drug testing, privatizing Medicare, strengthening the PATRIOT ACT, abstinence only education, appointment of radically religious judges and the so-called "Healthy Forest Initiative" are all examples of what I find disturbing....and I can list more! I feel that a large portion of the population disagrees with Bush but yet most Americans are just too fucking lazy to vote, or care for that matter. I believe the last election only had around 50% voter turnout, basically made up of people between the ages of 40-75, not exactly representative of the entire population.

And lets be brutally realistic about the up-coming elections, the DNC is putting out some decent candidates but not one is very likely to beat Bush, so long as the pseudo economic recovery is still happening and somehow we forget about casualties in Iraq. The country has digressed back into the "culture of fear" because of various elements (9/11, terrorism) and are willing to sacrifice civil rights for security. i.e. the PATRIOT ACT. The irony is that the PATRIOT ACT itself has not made a significant difference in terms of fighting domestic terrorism, and if you any creditable examples...please tell me. A Bush America brings about nothing but grotesque in my mind, hence I am losing faith in my country.

YOU BOYS LIKE MEXICO?!

[end gripe session]

Re: I have lost faith in my country

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Originally posted by PHALPAX I feel that a large portion of the population disagrees with Bush

That would be an incorrect feeling, as evidenced by individual voter support for all programs mentioned tonight except for the immigration plan. His approval rating is also between 50% and 60% depending on the polls.

What are your feelings on the Social Security plan? Two new types of savings accounts for everyone to invest in. SS returns 2% on the money that you pay into it. You can double that amount just by investing in money markets. For someone my age, this is perhaps one of the most important reforms.

As for healthy forests, take your pick. A forest cleared of underbrush and dead trees, or 2.5 million acres burned to a crisp in California.

Re: Re: I have lost faith in my country

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Originally posted by imokruok That would be an incorrect feeling, as evidenced by individual voter support for all programs mentioned tonight except for the immigration plan. His approval rating is also between 50% and 60% depending on the polls. What are your feelings on the Social Security plan? Two new types of savings accounts for everyone to invest in. SS returns 2% on the money that you pay into it. You can double that amount just by investing in money markets. For someone my age, this is perhaps one of the most important reforms. As for healthy forests, take your pick. A forest cleared of underbrush and dead trees, or 2.5 million acres burned to a crisp in California.

I deliberately used the general term �large portion� and did not say the majority of people. And, uh, polls sure are a great indicator in terms of measuring your popularity ... I�m sure Howard Dean speak up for that.

I do not have an opinion about SS currently; hence I have not looked into it. My priroritues are more concentrated on social issues and civil liberties along with the usual liberal baggage (education, healthcare etc).

I find it laughable that logging companies are honestly just going after �dead trees and brush�. I mean come on, the forest initiative is Republicanism at its best; and we all that Bush favors corporations interests.

is there a transcript of his speech anywhere?

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Originally posted by ahlamalek is there a transcript of his speech anywhere?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/rele...20040120-7.html

I found this speech rather average.
First id like to mention that 48% of the people say that the speech was poor, 38% exellent, and I guess im among the 20something %. ( CNN POLL).

Something id like to know, and please bring me info, I may have missed something.. how Was Saddam responsible to the 9/11 attacks? and where is the evidence of the links between him and Al QUaida?!?! please I need, because after what Bush said, there seems to be. All I can say of what he talked about the war and the fight against of terrorism, and his proof for action was total .. w/e. Expected. There were some things I did agree with, some good ideas, but overall it was just average..hispanic voters will turn out against him though.. just turn on the spanish channels. I dont see no good future with him as president for another term though on the US.. and Ive been saying this all along, and with that speech, It backs me up. Whats for him to say that he would take the US to war with no permission slip .. ppsshh.. very smart, very smart for diplomacy. I smell BULLY's.

Re: I have lost faith in my country

In all fairness

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Originally posted by PHALPAX school drug testing

Yes ... disagree

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, privatizing Medicare

Yes ... somewhat agree

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, strengthening the PATRIOT ACT

Actually not strengthen it's due to expire soon and he called for congress to renew it ... disagree

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, abstinence only education,

Yes ... disagree

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appointment of radically religious judges

Nope, he just talked about judges redefining marriage ... partially agree/disagree see gay marriage thread.

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and the so-called "Healthy Forest Initiative"

Wasn't in his speech.

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YOU BOYS LIKE MEXICO?! [end gripe session]

Just go to Canada instead. Seems like a better choice if you don't mind the cold

Re: Re: I have lost faith in my country

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Originally posted by imokruok As for healthy forests, take your pick. A forest cleared of underbrush and dead trees, or 2.5 million acres burned to a crisp in California.

BULLSHIT

It's a giveaway to timber companies to clear-cut national forests.


Yeah, I guess if you cut all the trees down there won't be anymore fires right?

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Originally posted by LiquidX Something id like to know, and please bring me info, I may have missed something.. how Was Saddam responsible to the 9/11 attacks? and where is the evidence of the links between him and Al QUaida?!?! please I need, because after what Bush said, there seems to be. All I can say of what he talked about the war and the fight against of terrorism, and his proof for action was total .. w/e. Expected. There were some things I did agree with, some good ideas, but overall it was just average..hispanic voters will turn out against him though.. just turn on the spanish channels. I dont see no good future with him as president for another term though on the US.. and Ive been saying this all along, and with that speech, It backs me up. Whats for him to say that he would take the US to war with no permission slip .. ppsshh.. very smart, very smart for diplomacy. I smell BULLY's.

He's lying if he said that, and misleading us if he insinuated that.

Colon Powell has said recently that Saddam has no link to Al Queda.

Bush is using the tactic of fear to gain reelection.

Liquid X, you and I should go register hispanic voters. I agree with you.

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Originally posted by occrider Wasn't in his speech.

I didn't listen to his speech, but I will read the transcript now.

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Just go to Canada instead. Seems like a better choice if you don't mind the cold

Fuck Canada, I'm an American and my family has been here since where I live was Spain. I'm not going anywhere (except leaving Texas).

He doesn't care about conservatives either:

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GOP Abandons Conservatives by Ron Paul The Medicare prescription drug bill passed by Congress last week may prove to be a watershed event for political conservatives in America. This latest expansion of the federal government, potentially the largest in our nation�s history, is firmly in keeping with the failed New Deal and Great Society programs of the utopian left. This leaves true conservatives, who believe strongly in limited government and identify with the Goldwater- era Republican party, wondering whether they still have a political home in the modern GOP. In the eyes of many conservatives, today�s GOP simply has abandoned its limited-government heritage to buy votes and gain political power in Washington. The unfortunate truth is that the Bush administration, aided by a Republican congress, has increased spending more in three years than the previous administration did in eight. Federal spending has grown by more than 25% since President Bush took office. The federal government now spends roughly $21,000 per household every year, up from $16,000 just 4 years ago. Columnist Cal Thomas, in a recent article entitled �The Embarrassing GOP,� raises an excellent question: �How much of that $21,000 could you spend that would produce better results for yourself and your family?� Consider that Mr. Bush has not vetoed a single bill, nor does he even bother to employ conservative rhetoric. Chris Edwards of the CATO Institute says this about the President: �I�ve never seen him give a speech in which he says government is too big and we need to cut costs.� Furthermore, the outlook for spending restraint during a second Bush term is nil: �When you have a president who has a bunch of his own spending initiatives like education and the Medicare drug bill, it makes it difficult for him to go out and say that Congress is being wasteful,� Mr. Edwards states. Columnists have coined the phrase �Big-Government Republicans� to describe the current crop of free spenders now controlling the White House, Senate, and House of Representatives. Many of the president�s closest advisors are Big-Government Republicans, former leftists who have no qualms about spending huge amounts of money both at home and abroad to achieve supposedly conservative ends. The irony is that conservatives suffered through decades of Democratic control of Congress, always believing that liberals were to blame for the relentless growth of the federal government. When Republicans finally took control of Congress in 1994, many saw an opportunity for a real conservative revolution. But first, conservatives were told, the Democratic administration had to be removed. In the meantime, spending continued unabated throughout the 1990s. When Republicans won the White House in 2000, another opportunity seemed at hand. The Senate, however, was still in Democratic hands-- the last possible GOP scapegoat. Finally, in 2002 the GOP took control of the Senate and increased its majority in the U.S. House. Surely this was the moment conservatives had been waiting for! Yet the past year has seen more spending than ever, including the disastrous Medicare bill that will cost trillions over coming decades. The latest line is that the GOP needs a filibuster-proof Senate of 60 Republicans, and then, finally, the party can begin to implement a conservative agenda. At what point will conservatives stop accepting these excuses? When does the conservative base of the GOP, a base that remains firmly committed to the principle of limited government, finally demand new leadership and a return to conservative values? Will conservatives abandon the party when they realize the GOP, at least under its current leadership, is simply not interested in reducing the size and scope of the federal government? With Republicans controlling the administration and the legislature, and nominally controlling the Supreme Court, the party has run out of other people to blame. One thing is certain: Republicans who support bigger entitlement programs and bigger federal budgets have lost all credibility as advocates for limited government.

He only cares about Oil companies, gas companies, timber companies, mining companies, chemical companies, corporate farms that put family farmers out of business, utility companies, prescription drug companies, etc who fund his campaign, and that's all he cares about.

I noted with interest Mr Bush's talk about better job prospects and an improving economy. It seems others dont agree.

For a realistic view of the US economy, and in particular why the US has a jobless recovery and what that means for the financial markets click on:

http://msdw.talkpoint.com/roach/20040120.asp

Its a 4 minute audio presentation viewable in Realaudio or Windows Media Player by Morgan Stanley Chief economist Stephen Roach. It doesnt cost anything. My favourite quote is "the US economy is running on fumes"

Some Bush supporters seem a bit deluded, and frankly scare me:

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[QUOTE=christianactor]Why all the Bush bashing I really dont have any other choice but to support this president whether I like him or not because of the position God has put him over my life. First of all if I disrespect this guy im basically disrespecting God. No, bush is not my favorite but let me tell you something very important to me personally. This man is against abortion.... and that is saving lives. In other presidents in the past how are they (one's who support abortion) any different then hitler who killed the Jews? 1000's of babies die every year legally through the left wing party. The bible says God knew you in the womb and that he has a destiny allready chosen for you. If in november I vote for a left wing candidate isnt that supporting murder? This man is promoting establishing the marriage union and that is between a man and a wife ONLY according to the bible. Anyways it is great to have an opinion over a president but remember! If there is any name calling hand angry opinions on this president just remember. He was put there by God. god allowed George Bush the position he has taken. I would not want to attack something God has istablished. im not god and slapping god in the face is not my kind of fun. Just remember your motives and what constitutes a rebellious heart.

*Sigh*

How do you argue with someone who thinks Jesus elected their president?

The Supreme Courth that legalized abortion was dominated by Republican appointees, and one of Kennedy's justices dissented.

So much for that argument.

It's just a ploy to trick voters.

"A strong America must also value the institution of marriage. I believe we should respect individuals as we take a principled stand for one of the most fundamental, enduring institutions of our civilization. Congress has already taken a stand on this issue by passing the Defense of Marriage Act, signed in 1996 by President Clinton. That statute protects marriage under federal law as a union of a man and a woman, and declares that one state may not redefine marriage for other states.

Activist judges, however, have begun redefining marriage by court order, without regard for the will of the people and their elected representatives. On an issue of such great consequence, the people's voice must be heard. If judges insist on forcing their arbitrary will upon the people, the only alternative left to the people would be the constitutional process. Our nation must defend the sanctity of marriage. (Applause.)

The outcome of this debate is important -- and so is the way we conduct it. The same moral tradition that defines marriage also teaches that each individual has dignity and value in God's sight. (Applause.)"

I highly disagree with this, as well as many other parts of that damn speech yesterday. About marriage, I believe that same-sex marriages should be allowed and have the same rights as opposite-sex marriages. If that can't be allowed, than don't allow anyone to get involved in marriage, as the current system isn't fair to all people. I also believe that polyamourous & plural marriages/relationships should be allowed, as it can reduce cheating of spouses. Now, another thing, I believe that marriage should not be a government-sponsored thing. The government should have no reason to get involved in peoples' private romantic life.

Re: Re: I have lost faith in my country

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Originally posted by occrider In all fairness

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Actually not strengthen it's due to expire soon and he called for congress to renew it ... disagree

Yeah, I should've re-worded my statement but the concept of that particular legislation being passed again sends chills down my spine.

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Nope, he just talked about judges redefining marriage ... partially agree/disagree see gay marriage thread.

In this issue, I wasn't refering to the SOTU address. Supposedly, Bush used an exexcuetive order to put Judge Pickering (a rather over-religous fellow) on an appeals court I believe. I think that theres 3 or 4 (not totatlly sure) judges that are on the Democratic "hit list". Lets also be realistic that a Democratic fillabuster is not going to last forever against those judges, although the Miguel Estrada situation brings optimism.

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Wasn't in his speech.

Again, I realize this wasn't in the SOTU address but I was merely using it as example(s) of legislation that I was furious about.

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Just go to Canada instead. Seems like a better choice if you don't mind the cold

After sleeping on it, I've come to my senses and brought myself to the realization that I too would be digressing if I left the country; it's not good to run away from problems anyway, besides it would be a chicken-shit thing to do.

Re: Re: Re: I have lost faith in my country

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Originally posted by PHALPAX After sleeping on it, I've come to my senses and brought myself to the realization that I too would be digressing if I left the country; it's not good to run away from problems anyway, besides it would be a chicken-shit thing to do.

It's exactly what our country doesn't need. If you lost faith in our country, make your voice count. It is your obligation and your given right to make a difference. And if that doesn't satisfy you, run for a public office. Take the initiatives and do the right thing for your country.

I don't think I've ever seen such a vocal protest of a president in office. I can't fathom how bush has any kind of popularity. I hope he gets slaughtered in the election.

Re: Re: Re: I have lost faith in my country

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Originally posted by PHALPAX In this issue, I wasn't refering to the SOTU address. Supposedly, Bush used an exexcuetive order to put Judge Pickering (a rather over-religous fellow) on an appeals court I believe. I think that theres 3 or 4 (not totatlly sure) judges that are on the Democratic "hit list". Lets also be realistic that a Democratic fillabuster is not going to last forever against those judges, although the Miguel Estrada situation brings optimism.

Actually I thought the pickering objection was overly politicized. The man's no racist and even the democrats who've blocked his appointment have said as much themselves. He prosecuted the KKK in in the 60s, sent his kids to newly integrated schools, and most of the opposition seems to stem from a case where he reduced the sentence of a cross-burning crime. He's even backed by some local civil-rights leaders in Mississippi such as Charles Evers. Anyway, what Bush did is nothing new. Clinton did it in 2000, John F Kennedy did it to recess commission 22% of his judges, Truman used it, Teddy Roosevelt used it, etc., etc., etc., all the way back to George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.

quote:

Originally posted by failsafe I don't think I've ever seen such a vocal protest of a president in office. I can't fathom how bush has any kind of popularity. I hope he gets slaughtered in the election.

Well these forums aren't exactly the most accurate representations of society as a whole

Yeah...let me help bend it back the other way a little bit.

Yay for Bush!

Did that help?

Re: Re: Re: I have lost faith in my country

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Originally posted by PHALPAX After sleeping on it, I've come to my senses and brought myself to the realization that I too would be digressing if I left the country; it's not good to run away from problems anyway, besides it would be a chicken-shit thing to do.

I was stopped at a light earlier today, and there was a homeless Vietnam veteran standing on the street corner. I didn't have any money on me, or even some food to give him. I felt so bad that a man who had served his country in an unjust, unwinable war was forced to strip himself of all dignity and stand there with a sign while others pretended not to notice him. I'll be honest it really broke my heart.

It kind of puts things into perspective about what's really important in life. I think if you were to turn your back on your country when it needed you, that would make you the worst kind of traitorous coward. I might not be able to help by joining the army, but I can still help by doing volunteer work in the community and also helping to elect leaders who will fight for me, you, that veteran standing on the corner, and all Americans. I'm actually glad in a small way that Bush was elected, because my outrage has also become an inspiration that has helped mold the direction of my life.

I am an American, I'll always be an American, and I�m damn proud of it.

We're going to have an America we can be proud of again, but we all can't just sit on our asses and expect for that to happen.

Dave

Re: Re: Re: Re: I have lost faith in my country

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Originally posted by DaveSaenz I was stopped at a light earlier today, and there was a homeless Vietnam veteran standing on the street corner. I didn't have any money on me, or even some food to give him. I felt so bad that a man who had served his country in an unjust, unwinable war was forced to strip himself of all dignity and stand there with a sign while others pretended not to notice him. I'll be honest it really broke my heart. It kind of puts things into perspective about what's really important in life. I think if you were to turn your back on your country when it needed you, that would make you the worst kind of traitorous coward. I might not be able to help by joining the army, but I can still help by doing volunteer work in the community and also helping to elect leaders who will fight for me, you, that veteran standing on the corner, and all Americans. I'm actually glad in a small way that Bush was elected, because my outrage has also become an inspiration that has helped mold the direction of my life.

Heh half of the homeless who claim to be vets are utter bullshit. They just grab army surplus jackets from the salvation army or other such organizations. If you think about it though, most of them are either too old or too young to be vets.

Re: Re: Re: Re: I have lost faith in my country

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Originally posted by DaveSaenz I was stopped at a light earlier today, and there was a homeless Vietnam veteran standing on the street corner. I didn't have any money on me, or even some food to give him. I felt so bad that a man who had served his country in an unjust, unwinable war was forced to strip himself of all dignity and stand there with a sign while others pretended not to notice him. I'll be honest it really broke my heart.

So do you think he was homeless because he fought in the Vietnam War(assuming he really was a Vietnam vet?)

Sorry to intrude but....







Now carry on......

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Originally posted by biodigit Sorry to intrude but.... Now carry on......

That made me chuckle

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I have lost faith in my country

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Originally posted by biodigit Sorry to intrude but.... Now carry on......

Laughter is the elixir of the soul.

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Originally posted by Shakka So do you think he was homeless because he fought in the Vietnam War(assuming he really was a Vietnam vet?)

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We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns - the ones we don't know we don't know. -Donald Rumsfeld

Hehe, kick em out.

- Another thing that Occrider pointed out on another post. THe fiscal policy, the deficit and such. I was listening today to NPR, and everyone was wondering how is George Bush to make the programs he mentioned to work out, and where will he get the money from, also. Bush never mentioned the deficit that we are in, out of the 250,000 jobs he promised on the last State of the Union, only 1,000 have been created. Bush mentioned too many illusions, conservative illusions. How can Bush wanna make Tax cuts permanent, that would cost the US Billions of dollars. Another thing I noticed, he did not mention the space program. And to contrast he's last State of the Union speech with this one .. where are the WMD? The Uranium in Africa? Al Quaida??.. oh yeah, we got Saddam Hussein, but was he really the one that the US should have gone after?.. and why?, the proof??.... The Clinton administration handed Bush the country with a surplus, now we are in a deficit of who knows how many billions... Enough Said. Have a Nice day.

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