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-- Does Clark stand a chance tonight?

Does Clark stand a chance tonight?

Or will he get slaughtered with Lieberman?

I thought he had a lot of support, but I feel like he's been too quiet as of late and has really suffered in the polls because of this. I also think that lately it seems like more Dems are realizing that they need to band together, pick 1 top guy and stick with him, which is why Kerry has been picking up so much in the polls. I honestly don't know where Kerry stands on a lot of issues, he just seems to me like more of a neutral candidate whom people haven't really found any major gripes with yet. This is all still very early in the process, but he appears to be running away with it every day. I don't think Clark stands a chance--then again, maybe the New Hampshirians are planning a surprise.

It's anybody's guess what NH voters will do. Keep in mind that NH is a Republican/Independent state, so it's kind of funny that the state's Democrats have so much sway in the political process. They're the minority party there by a decent margin.

There will be some people who unite behind Kerry, although recent polling has shown Dean to be recovering from his Iowa gaffes. Edwards adds an interesting piece to the equation, but I don't think he will gain much steam until the primaries head to the south. (Remember, McCain won in New Hampshire against Bush, but Bush killed him in South Carolina and went on to grab all of the states after that.)

Re: Does Clark stand a chance tonight?

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Originally posted by Shakka Or will he get slaughtered with Lieberman? I thought he had a lot of support, but I feel like he's been too quiet as of late and has really suffered in the polls because of this. I also think that lately it seems like more Dems are realizing that they need to band together, pick 1 top guy and stick with him, which is why Kerry has been picking up so much in the polls. I honestly don't know where Kerry stands on a lot of issues, he just seems to me like more of a neutral candidate whom people haven't really found any major gripes with yet. This is all still very early in the process, but he appears to be running away with it every day. I don't think Clark stands a chance--then again, maybe the New Hampshirians are planning a surprise.

From the polls and stories I've seen, Clark is running a head to head battle for third with either Edwards or Dean.

No, there is no battle with Bush-Lite. Lieberman is finished. His conservative stance doesn't bode too well for liberals, esp. the New England liberals. For him to think that his conservative, errr "centrist" stance on matters will win him votes is extremely short-sighted at best.

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok There will be some people who unite behind Kerry, although recent polling has shown Dean to be recovering from his Iowa gaffes. Edwards adds an interesting piece to the equation, but I don't think he will gain much steam until the primaries head to the south. (Remember, McCain won in New Hampshire against Bush, but Bush killed him in South Carolina and went on to grab all of the states after that.)

Oh, you mean Rove's smear job of McCain in S. Carolina? Yeah, I remember that well.

Rove or no Rove, the Bush team played election politics and won. Don't forget that by the time S.C. came along, McCain was already starting to develop a "Dean-like" reputation for temper and off-handed crazy remarks. In many of the latter primary states, this played a factor.

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Originally posted by imokruok Rove or no Rove, the Bush team played election politics and won. Don't forget that by the time S.C. came along, McCain was already starting to develop a "Dean-like" reputation for temper and off-handed crazy remarks. In many of the latter primary states, this played a factor.

Much of that "craziness" was played into the media thanks in large part to Rove. Dean, OTOH, has had a healthy number of moments for his own "anger management" tour. McCain was nowhere close to that type of so-called anger, but Rove played his hand nicely.

Kerry is a pretty solid dem. It remains to be seen whether the fact he is from Mass. would cost him some votes however.

It's my opinion that he is the best-qualified candidate to be President.

I can just hear the Rove ads now though. "John Kerry supports gay marriage."

Rove will again reach for the lowest common denominator as he did with McCain, and appeal to the worst in everyone to get votes.


Well if Kerry wins he's going to need a Midwestern or Southern running mate. Dick Gephardt from Missouri would make sense since Missouri is a must-win state pretty much. Missouri has voted for the last 10 winners of the white house, and with Missouri and all the democratic states, Kerry wins. John Edwards would also be an excellent choice for a running mate.

We're also going to have poll watchers out there this time at every precinct (in Florida at least) to make sure no Jim Crow style intimidation tactics are again used as in 2000.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Or will he get slaughtered with Lieberman? I thought he had a lot of support, but I feel like he's been too quiet as of late and has really suffered in the polls because of this. I also think that lately it seems like more Dems are realizing that they need to band together, pick 1 top guy and stick with him, which is why Kerry has been picking up so much in the polls. I honestly don't know where Kerry stands on a lot of issues, he just seems to me like more of a neutral candidate whom people haven't really found any major gripes with yet. This is all still very early in the process, but he appears to be running away with it every day. I don't think Clark stands a chance--then again, maybe the New Hampshirians are planning a surprise.

The reason Clark is slipping is because Kerry steals some of his thunder as a war hero and as an "anti Dean." Plus Clark keeps saying things he later has to retract. An important part of politics is saying the right things, and he's still just learning about that.
Hillary Clinton and Trent Lott know all too well you can get in trouble for your remarks.

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok It's anybody's guess what NH voters will do. Keep in mind that NH is a Republican/Independent state, so it's kind of funny that the state's Democrats have so much sway in the political process. They're the minority party there by a decent margin.

In 2000 the margin that Gore lost New Hampshire was less than the number of votes for Nader, but you're right about the local government there being Republican. For that reason the school children of New Hampshire are the only ones in the US to not be able to go to kindergarden. I still don't understand why they care so much about the "rights" of the unborn if they cut programs for children after they are born.

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Originally posted by DaveSaenz It's my opinion that he is the best-qualified candidate to be President.

Weren't you just in favor of Clark the other day?

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We're also going to have poll watchers out there this time at every precinct (in Florida at least) to make sure no Jim Crow style intimidation tactics are again used as in 2000.

Dude--what are you talking about? That crap is nonsense.

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The reason Clark is slipping is because Kerry steals some of his thunder as a war hero and as an "anti Dean."

Is Kerry planning on repealing any of Bush's tax cuts?

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In 2000 the margin that Gore lost New Hampshire was less than the number of votes for Nader, but you're right about the local government there being Republican.

He probably lost by a bigger margin in Tennesee--his own state.

Slaughtered.
Damn fool wasn't even a popular general!


[[[smoke]]]

wait wait.. NO HE DOESN'T...

damn missed it by an hour and a half

hey but look at the bright side,

i could be a biblical prophet or something

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok It's anybody's guess what NH voters will do. Keep in mind that NH is a Republican/Independent state, so it's kind of funny that the state's Democrats have so much sway in the political process. They're the minority party there by a decent margin. There will be some people who unite behind Kerry, although recent polling has shown Dean to be recovering from his Iowa gaffes. Edwards adds an interesting piece to the equation, but I don't think he will gain much steam until the primaries head to the south. (Remember, McCain won in New Hampshire against Bush, but Bush killed him in South Carolina and went on to grab all of the states after that.)

- Actually, for my understanding, NH is neither. Its voters tend to vote for the person, not for the party. And if I may be mistaken, hasen't NH voted Democrat??.. then again, I may be wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by smokeape Slaughtered. Damn fool wasn't even a popular general! [[[smoke]]]

Hang on a minute, third place with 12% of the vote isn't a slaughter, particularly when he's running even with Edwards. Even if he drops back to to fourth as the rest of the precincts report it'll still be very close.

You have to consider that Kerry had a juggernaut, and Dean got a lot of votes as well. Honestly, I'm surprised and impressed that Clark did this well, reminds me of McGovern in '72 shocking everyone in New Hampshire. He finished third, I think, but surprised the nation because he wasn't expected to make it past New Hampshire. He went on to win the nomination.

Anyway, I think this is going to give Clark some good publicity. Going into the southern primaries I think he has a strong chance of hanging in there.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Dude--what are you talking about? That crap is nonsense.

- Actually, thats no nonsense. It did happen, alot of crap went down in Florida, so many hidden crap. The republicans BUSED people to protest and block precints, so the ballots wouldnt be recounted.Many registered voters were rejected the right to vote, that West Palm Beach ballot scandal, the state troopers blocking and stoping black voters.. so much crap went on.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Weren't you just in favor of Clark the other day?

I'm a fan of Clark, Edwards, Kerry, and Sharpton.

I've just seen Clark struggle in his campaign, so I've moved over to Kerry and Edwards more. I'm still undecided.

quote:

Dude--what are you talking about? That crap is nonsense.

Hardly. The only thing that is "crap" as you put it, is that there was not more of an investigation into the matter.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/internati...,824516,00.html

quote:

But for black Floridians, the 2000 elections were about disenfranchisement, and their problems are by no means over. Thousands of voters turned up at the polls two years ago and found their names had been removed from the electoral roll. It turned out that the Florida establishment, run by Governor Jeb Bush, George Bush's younger brother, had hired a private company to draw up a list of all Floridians with a criminal record, so they could be removed from the voting lists (under Florida law, past convictions bar you from voting for life). But the company, DBT, was instructed to overestimate and to "scrub" from the lists anyone with a similar name, date of birth and race to people with past felony convictions. As blacks account for nearly half of all such convictions, but only 11% of the Florida electorate, that meant that a disproportionate number of blacks with similar names and ages to felons were "scrubbed". "Our votes were stolen. It's like coming to my house and taking the groceries from my wife and children," Mr White said.

http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/...a_lawsuit.shtml

quote:

In 2000, the NAACP made extensive efforts to register new voters and to encourage its members to vote. As a result of the efforts of the NAACP, the NAACP National Voter Fund, and other organizations, turnout among Black voters in Florida increased significantly in the November 7, 2000 general election, compared to recent general elections. However, Black voters were confronted with a multitude of non-uniform election practices that impeded their exercise of the franchise or disenfranchised them. In particular, as a result of the practices complained of in this action, in precincts with substantial numbers of Black voters, there were a disproportionate number of ballots with no vote counted for the office of President of the United States, Black voters were wrongfully purged from official lists of eligible voters, the voter registration applications of Black voters were not processed properly, and registered voters encountered unjustified barriers to voting at their precincts. Such barriers were caused by, inter alia, the failure to provide a complete official list of eligible voters at each polling place, inadequate processes for verifying the registration of voters not appearing on precinct lists, and the failure to offer voters who moved within the same county the opportunity to vote by affirmation or affidavit.

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Is Kerry planning on repealing any of Bush's tax cuts?

For the top 2 % income bracket.

I'm not so much a fan of vilifying rich people, and I think you can explain the benefits of a progressive tax plan without being openly hostile to rich voters. So he needs to lay off that a bit imo, but, I'll take that any day over Bush's authoritarian social policies that violate church/state separation, his reinstatement of the draft, and more of his unilateralist wars.

quote:

He probably lost by a bigger margin in Tennesee--his own state.

Gore was an idiot for acting like a robot hehe.

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