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Who am I?
So this is something I've been thinking and talking about and I've started to wonder about. What has happened to our individuality as human beings, our spontaneity, our sense of self?
There's this disturbing trend I've noticed that's especially obvious online, but I suppose it might be there to see in the flesh as well, just not as clearly.
And that trend seems to be to define oneself and others in black-and-white terms, to come up with a set of adjectives that universally describes them in every set of circumstances. To identify themselves with a "type". In fact what it all boils down to, in essence, is the relegation of every person to some specific category of one-dimensional characters.
People talk incessantly about their love or hate for prog. About their love or hate for some superstar DJ. You're either a nice guy or an asshole. You're either a geek or a n00b. You're either left wing or right wing. You like reality shows or you hate them. You're for or against drugs. You're a kid or an adult, "young" or "old".
Is anyone following me here? People seem to have to identify themselves with some particular group and by all cliquey and elitist about it. I must bash trance at every opportunity, bash Tiesto at every opportunity, I must always be a jackass and treat women like objects, I must always worship Armin, I must always whine about American foreign policy, I must always flame the people who drop pills, or flame the people who flame the people who drop pills, I must always act completely mature or completely immature. All of this, to ensure your permanent acceptance into the group of fellow trance-bashers, Tiesto-bashers, pimps, USA-haters, druggies, and high-schoolers.
Why, though? Isn't it obvious that no one hates ALL prog, that no one likes ALL of Armin's sets, that nobody is nice to EVERY girl or even always nice to the same girl, that nobody agrees or disagrees with EVERYTHING the USA does, and that nobody acts mature ALL the time? Aren't we supposed to be multifaceted, multidimensional characters who often change based on our mood, our setting, and the people around us?
Are we supposed to keep our personality 100% consistent, 100% predictable, 100% of the time? And expect other people to do the same?
I'm at a loss for answers. I'm not always nice and I'm not always a jerk. I'm not always lazy and I'm not always dilligent. I'm not always confident and I'm not always shy. I'm not always cheerful and I'm not always bitter. Sometimes I'm happy with who I am and sometimes I hate myself. I listen to whatever kind of music I happen to be in the mood for.
And in that sense, I feel like I always fit in and I never fit in. I can adapt to almost any group, but as soon as my mood changes then I'll feel like the odd man out because they're expecting me to always be the same, all the time.
I don't want to be labelled, really. Not even if it's a positive label. Even if I had the "great guy" label then that would just mean I have to constantly live up to that expectation. I hate labels, I hate cliques, I hate elitism, I hate that other people can be so damn one-dimensional and even expect me to be one-dimensional too. As a lifestyle, it makes no sense. You have to lie to yourself half the time to be 1-D!
Anyway, I don't know where this is going really, but I was wondering if other people feel the same way. Does anyone else feel annoyed at the utter predictability of so many people, especially (but not only) here on the 'net? And does anyone else feel like they're constantly having to hide what they're really thinking in order to satisfy whatever clique they happen to be with?
I know you could take this reasoning to an extreme and use it to justify outright hypocrisy, but that's not where I'm going with it. I just think we've lost our independence of thought as a species, and I'm pretty upset about it.
Any thoughts, anyone, if you've bothered to read this far? 
Re: Who am I?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DigiNut And does anyone else feel like they're constantly having to hide what they're really thinking in order to satisfy whatever clique they happen to be with? |
That bored eh Aaron? or you have much to say at such a late hour
I don't care what people really think of me, the people that matter know the truth behind the madness 
.
My label says "Harley".. I think that's my name...
I'd label you right now with some pointless internet adjectives...but then again, what's the point? 
wheeeeeee....
Being a 100% consistant in our personalities and emotions is difficult, but it does seem people try to generalize you based on how consistant you are with what kind of things you say, how you feel and what you are like most of the time. Although no one is completely and consistantly the "same person" 24/7 everyone who surrounds you knows you mainly on who you are most of the time.
I guess what you are getting at is the human element that nobody should be consistantly the same as it doesn't express what we humans are capable of as diverse and everchanging people.
People (including myself) generalize others based on their consistent behavior and personality. If some person is drunk 4/7 days of the week, then that person is labelled a drunk because of a pattern of consistent behavior.
If people don't formulize consistency in themselves, then who are they?
I bet you have a personality that people know you for. Isn't that better than people not knowing who you are as a person, as you have your own opinion and ideas that people know you for?
Anyways, i think consistency is good with variations.
Hmmm, may be im not making sense again. Damn im tired.
I guess this also touches on the ideal self and the actual self. ON the internet it is only our thoughts that are portrayed so we don't have our actions to contradict ourselves. So I never believe people that are total anti-whatever they hate.
wait, before I forget my point let me get to it. I think these examples you use that people say define them are too narrow. I think there is a bigger "trait" could better explain their behavior. What those traits are I have no idea, but they exert an influence on your behaviors.
now I think it is just an influence so ther is still variability. say I am a trendy type person that cannot stay with one thing for long, I must move onto newer things. I might be more proned to hate say armin, his ASOT's have been going on too long. something along those lines.
So yes we do all vary from these narrow defining characteristics we cling to. These characteristics also change over time as we experience new things.
and I am the same with the fitting into every group. I tend to adapt very well to many different groups. My prep friends may visit me and we do prep thigns with preps, then my bro who is in a death metal band visits and we do death metal type things (no murder, I swear). so that is my identity I think, the jack of all trades. that suites me just fine.
hope that wasn't too discontinuitous (if thats even a word) and long.
Re: Who am I?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DigiNut And does anyone else feel like they're constantly having to hide what they're really thinking in order to satisfy whatever clique they happen to be with? |
so incase ne of u werre thinkin i was a retard i'm not u sound like ur gonna cry on us
Re: Re: Who am I?
Great post Digi, it really sums up why I just can't fit in properly where I live. Problem is (at least in my experience) that in order to fit in the people need some kind of pigeonhole that they can associate you with. For instance, in my city, when you're at my age, you're either with the people who go out and get drunk on weekends, swear, have sex before they get married and are atheists, or you're with the religious people who abstain completely from alcohol etc., go to religious youth clubs on weekends, go to camps etc. That's just the way things go around here. I on the other hand, refused to conform to such extremities, as I thought both sides had flaws I didn't want to accept and good sides I could relate to. Thus, I ended up drifting from one environment to another with alternating exposure to both extremities as time went by, yet without ever being able to fit in anywhere due to my "abnormal" state of mind.
I guess that without fitting into the 1-D scheme that is the norm around here, people don't know for sure where they have you and what to expect from you. This in turn scares them and makes them retreat back to the people they know what to expect from. It's a real shame, but it just goes to show that most people prefer the things they know thorougly and feel safe towards rather than something new and unknown that provides a real challenge.
I understand what youre on about and to a certain degree i would agree with you on why we have these stereotypes etc...
Well i was like you just around three years ago until i had enough and decided to live my life by being true to my self and if people don't like me for who i really am then its really their problem and theyre not your friends to start with then.
I tried to fit in with people and do things that i thought would make me a nice guy or whatever,, it didnt get me far as i didnt like it at the end, i got sick of being a doll in a way.
People usualy stay with one image for a reason, its because maybe thats who they really are and by them changin all the time would call for insecurity and therefore the cavity of personality would occur.
Since we humans really can't explain how we feel or think at times we just use the words that are already here to describe close enough on what were truying to say/mean and even feel in cases.
So dont worry what youre going through is normal and is just common sence in human psychology
Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I wrote it pretty late at night so I was in one of my deeply philosophical moods, but just wanted to let you all know that I am actually reading and thinking about your replies and it wasn't one of those "I'm depressed, cheer me up" type threads. I'm not on the verge of tears or anything (Dave), nor was I last night.
Some people have said be yourself, know yourself, etc... I guess what I was driving at is that "myself" is an ever changing thing, it's not static, and even though there are some things that remain fairly constant (like say, preferring some kind of electronica over other music or acting generally more like a bitter old man than a little kid ), there are other things that are not. Even my inherent "geek" personality is not constant - like I may spend hours on the computer but when I have these "friends" that never say a word to me about anything other than their newest upgrade and/or game, I just find it annoying as fuck, I want to say, don't you have OTHER interests, can't you talk about something ELSE?
Wouldn't you all rather spend time with the SAME people (not literally the same people but the same "circle", I mean) but not do the SAME things all the time with them? It sucks to have to make new friends but I think it sucks more to spend your life with people who might as well be recorded messages. It's a conflict between being able to depend on people and being able to keep an interest in them (and I suppose, on the flip side, being able to keep them interested in you).
I think it's worse in romance (although that was not the focus of the original post), because people seem to think I'm supposed to react the exact same way to them every day and can't handle it emotionally if I don't. If I get mad at them for doing something one time then it makes me a jealous person in general, or if I have a problem with one of their habits then it means I hate them (it doesn't really, not unless it is clear that they're putting their annoying habit above me on their list of priorities, but that's how they interpret). I always get the dreaded "Well you didn't have a problem with it before!" Yeah, you're right, I didn't - is the dynamic of the relationship supposed to be the exact same every day? I wouldn't expect someone else to always be in the same mood. It really shouldn't be such a damn revelation that I like *some* aspects of their personality but not *all*, or that something I find cute one day might be annoying the next.
Boomer, that was an interesting thought about the "ideal" self. My friend (who's started "chatting" with me over 8 years ago) summed it up in one simple sentence really: "There aren't a lot of people like you and I who bother to keep our real personae online." I think that's true in a larger context; with most people I've met on the 'net there seems to be a noticeable gap between the way they act online and up front, with the former being (apparently) the way they "want" to be, but really aren't... personally I'm not like that and don't understand it. I can do it - back in those days I did con people online and was quite good at it (not for money, just for fun), but at this point I can't see why anyone would want to.
Errr, the conclusion from that paragraph above is this: you can always tell when someone is "making up" an identity when they become too formulaic, one-dimensional, like a TV show. That's how professionals catch you lying, when something seems too rehearsed. So online, perhaps the reason people often seem so one-dimensional is that they are, in fact, fabricating a personality they don't have and running with it because it's fun/gets them attention?
Friends, romance, it's all the same though. Most of the world tells us that they're not good at dealing with change... to me, change is the only thing constant in life. Without that, it's all just a big lie.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DigiNut to me, change is the only thing constant in life. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DigiNut Some people have said be yourself, know yourself, etc... I guess what I was driving at is that "myself" is an ever changing thing, it's not static... |
Seems like an interesting thread, I'll read all posts as soon as I have the time. The only reason why I'm posting right now is because I need to give Astroboy my thumbs up for...
| quote: |
| Originally posted by astroboy "The Tao that can be spoken of is not the constant Tao" |
er, because i dont like tiesto i have no sense of myself?
get you.
who gives a fuck about cliques or groups, i like to take them piss out of them, as i find it rather sad when people have to do things to try and fit in with others.
just be yourself.
You do make some very good points and I agree with most of them. It does seem that some (if not most) people have this "alter-ego" when online. I try to stay as true to myself as possible when on the forums. I'm normally shy at first when meeting new people so I guess that's why I have not said that much. Just trying to get to know the people here... not just the screen names. I hope that the people I do get to know here will be the same online as they are in person.
As far as the black & white existance, I prefer the gray area. I also think many of us here live in the gray area too.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Ste who gives a fuck about cliques or groups, i like to take them piss out of them, as i find it rather sad when people have to do things to try and fit in with others. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by astroboy Hey Maaz, Have you read much Taoist literature? Here are some other good ones: "He who knows others is wise. He who knows himself is enlightened." "To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders." |
I knew the first one already, but not the second, thanks
| quote: |
| Originally posted by astroboy "He who knows others is wise. He who knows himself is enlightened." "To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders." |
Didnt have time to read the entire thread, but diginut stop crying you're going to rust your self all up you big loveable bag of bolts.
*hands him a can of WD-40
ppl or topics are often described in black or white to simplify the complex world we live in. We are more complicated inside, you just need to follow your inner convictions (your heart) and you'll be ok. Dont worry about what everyone will think, your true friends will understand and the rest will move on. Now go out there and be the best robot you can be.
Pff, I'll get you for that, and your little dog too!
Re: the Tao, I've never read it, but it does look interesting, considering picking up a translation.
every moment has its own truth. that's my personal motto. i made it up
so many big posts. 
I couldve sworn i posted in this thread....
hmm..do I smell a cry baby?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Slylee every moment has its own truth. that's my personal motto. i made it up |
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