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-- god help us

god help us

i dont want to arise any political debate with anyone
the film that you will see (if you choose too) will pretty much say it all- just click the link (not for ppl with weak hearts)
link

Heh, could you at least summarize what it's talking about for us poor people with 56k modems?

EDIT:

Guess I was wrong.

God save the innocents of that region.

Either those people on the sidewalk were blown out of the bus, or they were walking there at the wrong time. I couldnt imagine being that camera man...i would have thrown up.

I hope those shits responsible burn alive.

ohh fuuuuck that was discusting! gah :S :S

I haven't checked it out as yet but will soon, have a good feeling of what it will look like though since I have seen many a clips on these events. I remember seeing a clip on a Russian officer getting beheaded with a knife Halal style by the Mujahideen in where else but Chechnya, as well as the pics of suicide bomber attacks with body parts all over the place including detached heads, limbs, etc. If you don't have the guts avoid these clips otherwise proceed with caution. Its a fucked up world, like I always say.

Well, just finished watching it and can say that perhaps the most fucked up thing is that this is obviously not the last, never was and at this rate never will be. What has humanity come to when our actions are even worse than those of wild animals on the Savannahs of East Africa. This is why while I believe in the Palestinians right to a state, I could never endorse suicide bombings. Wonder if that British politician that said the other day that she could understand resorting to suicide bombings saw this clip. Even the most heartless of human beings has to think twice about the carnage, what does this solve. Israel will now go into a Palestinian town and the cycle will continue when innocent Palestinians die.

I would watch more tv if they showed clips like these. I bet more people wouldn't want to go to war if saw this everyday. Remember how Fox always had Generals and military personal to describe and show cgi on how cool it was dropping bombs? Where were the doctors to describe what happens to the some time innocent people that get a bomb dropped on them

btw this video will b presented tomorrow at hauge (i hope i spelled it right :/) intl. court in the debate on the seperation fence that's being built
i hope the day will come and the fence will be complete and we wont have to occupie palestinian cities anymore :/

quote:

Originally posted by rizen I would watch more tv if they showed clips like these. I bet more people wouldn't want to go to war if saw this everyday. Remember how Fox always had Generals and military personal to describe and show cgi on how cool it was dropping bombs? Where were the doctors to describe what happens to the some time innocent people that get a bomb dropped on them

Well Rizen you boys haven't seen the half of it here is some more for you. Once again not for the faint hearted at all. This is from the Russian-Chechen conflict http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/video/ and http://www.thenausea.com/chechenya.html

Like you said Rizen if people saw more of these real clips of war then we would see how much they would support war in any fashion. I know that I wouldn't want to be there, like hell on earth.

War is indeed hell.

http://home.columbus.rr.com/imagete...20Incident.mpeg

I, for one, am all for the freedom of speech when it comes to images of war. As long as it's done tastefully, decently, and out of respect for the victims involved. I'm not opposed to the idea of war at times of necessity, but I think everybody should know what it entails.

While I agree that if the general public saw more disturbing images caused by violence, they wouldn't be as supportive of war, I can't help but think of the parallels drawn between this idea and one of the primary methods of debate pro-life people use - the gory pictures of aborted fetuses.

I've never liked the fact that they show those images in public places, but then again I feel that exposing the public to less watered-down war footage would make the public more hesitant to go to war in the future.

*sigh* I've caught myself in a double-standard.

http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/video/
http://www.thenausea.com/chechenya.html

Its because of such clips that I laugh when people talk about war, how many people in the West have seen what conflict is like without the watered down clips of fancy weapons firing at terrorists but not the upclose brutality of death in its cruelest form. I would support war if it becomes an absolute necessity and even fight in one but then yet again I don't live in the Middle East or in Ichkeria(Chechnya) or conflict parts of Africa so I have a comfy Western P.O.V. on the subject.

Yeah I've seen kavkazcenter.com before. The whole site reminds me of when I played Operation Flashpoint 1985 especially 'Russian MI-24 helicopter shot down' video. Thanks for the 2nd site

No problem man, I'm just glad that I don't have to live in those places, its f-ing crazy. You could be alive today and dead tonight literally with the nonstop violence. Puzzling to me why Russia wants to hold onto Chechnya that badly. I understand the spillover effect of if you let go of Chechnya more conflict provinces might flare up, seeing 19 year olds getting knifed in the neck though makes you wonder at what price. Love that Muslim music that the Chechens usually play in the videos, wonder what its called, anyone who knows let me know.

i just ate so i will skip the video

Chechyn rebels need proof of there battles to receive their bounty, so there is alot of footage in that area

You'll also find that the Russian army straps groups of people together and detonates them, this makes the body count appear alot lower thus making it harder to identify the true amount of people in a mass grave. You'll find dogs wondering around towns with severed human limbs in their mouths etc

It's a shame we don't talk about other world conflict areas more :/

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Puzzling to me why Russia wants to hold onto Chechnya that badly. I understand the spillover effect of if you let go of Chechnya more conflict provinces might flare up...

That and this

Oil Export Routes and Options in the Caspian Sea Region

...
Name: Baku-Novorossiisk Pipeline (Northern Route)
Route: Baku via Chechnya (Russia) to Novorossiisk (Russia), terminating at Novorossiisk Black Sea oil terminal
Crude capacity: 100,000 bbl/d capacity; possible upgrade to 300,000 bbl/d
Lenght: 868 miles; 90 miles are in Chechnya
Estimated cost: $600 million to upgrade to 300,000 bbl/d
Status: Exports began late 1997; exports in 2001 averaged 50,000 bbl/d.
...


http://www.brojon.org/frontpage/bj091701.html

"The Soviets had massively built up their military in the 1980's, including the world's largest nuclear submarine fleet, gambling on the huge profits to be made by selling their Chechen oil on the open market. When the Afghans under bin Laden, backed by the U.S. CIA stopped the construction of the Soviet-Afghan pipeline, the Soviet Union went through an economic collapse and ceased to exist in 1991.

The vast Chechen oilfield still remains fallow and untapped. As identified in "Black Gold Hot Gold," the Empire of Energy is now making a new attempt to market the Chechen oil by carpet bombing Afghanistan and building the Afghan pipeline."

quote:

Originally posted by borron That and this Oil Export Routes and Options in the Caspian Sea Region ... Name: Baku-Novorossiisk Pipeline (Northern Route) Route: Baku via Chechnya (Russia) to Novorossiisk (Russia), terminating at Novorossiisk Black Sea oil terminal Crude capacity: 100,000 bbl/d capacity; possible upgrade to 300,000 bbl/d Lenght: 868 miles; 90 miles are in Chechnya Estimated cost: $600 million to upgrade to 300,000 bbl/d Status: Exports began late 1997; exports in 2001 averaged 50,000 bbl/d. ... http://www.brojon.org/frontpage/bj091701.html "The Soviets had massively built up their military in the 1980's, including the world's largest nuclear submarine fleet, gambling on the huge profits to be made by selling their Chechen oil on the open market. When the Afghans under bin Laden, backed by the U.S. CIA stopped the construction of the Soviet-Afghan pipeline, the Soviet Union went through an economic collapse and ceased to exist in 1991. The vast Chechen oilfield still remains fallow and untapped. As identified in "Black Gold Hot Gold," the Empire of Energy is now making a new attempt to market the Chechen oil by carpet bombing Afghanistan and building the Afghan pipeline."

Interesting forgot all about the oil in Chechnya with all of the fighting and few solid building structures left in Grozny you kind of lose sight of the oil resource. Then yet again oil or no oil the Chechens and Russians would still be fighting because the Chechens have never felt loyal to Moscow.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider War is indeed hell. http://home.columbus.rr.com/imagete...20Incident.mpeg I, for one, am all for the freedom of speech when it comes to images of war. As long as it's done tastefully, decently, and out of respect for the victims involved. I'm not opposed to the idea of war at times of necessity, but I think everybody should know what it entails.

I completely agree.

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