TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- The Anti-Creationist Toolkit!!!!
Pages (2): [1] 2 »

The Anti-Creationist Toolkit!!!!

Ok look ... I like to think that I'm a a fair and balanced individual who's mostly easy going about ideas that I don't agree with ... but this is going too far.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/me...um.html?sub=yes

Not ONLY are these people intent on demanding equal rights for the teachings of an unfounded, unverifiable, unsubstantiated explanation for the origins of the existence of life(all of which I don't mind so long as they are provided no more time than other explanations), but they intend to LIMIT the teaching of basic scientific standards that explain our very existence!!!

Apparentely the only way to convey thought nowadays is to be proactive and as such, I must respond in kind. I hereby provide all of you with the anti-creationist toolkit that will refute any creationist argument. Use it wisely ...

Evolution Facts (Courtesy of MrOpus)

Creationsist Arguments

Random Aetheist Quote Generator

Logical Fallacies Dictionary

Virtual Religion Index

Things Creationists Hate

Any additions opus?

PErsonally the two biggest tools in my anti-creationist arsenal are www.talkorigins.org and www.stardestroyer.net (look in the creationist section)

Occrider, nobody seems to take our words seriously that there are people in America committed to converting the country into a theocracy through the political and court systems.

They'll be sorry when it's too late.

The most powerful anti-creationist toolkit you have is your vote.


For more info see my thread:


http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=157135


TheocracyWatch is a project of the Center for Religion, Ethics and Social Policy (CRESP) at Cornell University.

http://www.4religious-right.info/index.html

-
Jimmy Carter was our last Christian President.

Are you kidding? You guys are still stuck with that?
Who the hell believes that? Only someone who is fucking stupid believes that shit.

I mean, if i lived there, i would be raising hell. This is a country where 95+% of people are catholic, and even priests believe in Darwin.

quote:

Originally posted by borron Are you kidding? You guys are still stuck with that? Who the hell believes that? Only someone who is fucking stupid believes that shit. I mean, if i lived there, i would be raising hell. This is a country where 95+% of people are catholic, and even priests believe in Darwin.

Heh, yes, it's so funny to see how the US is living in 18th century when it comes to evolutionary ideas.

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Heh, yes, it's so funny to see how the US is living in 18th century when it comes to evolutionary ideas.

aaaaand public health care

If a local priest said he doesn't believe the "man-monkey thing" in a mass, he would be laughed at till the end of his days!

Humans did evolve from monkeys. But there was that one unexplained point in history when all of a sudden humans started herding other animals and planting seeds for farming food.

This started in none other than Israel and the fertile belt in the Holy Land. Scientists still cannot prove how humans were able to make this leap. I believe god gave us our technology.

You may think this is just another argument I have made up to counter your arguments, but actually I have beleived this for a number of years.

Until scientist can prove what happens when the sprem hits the egg and can explain how a small seed grows into a plant we can eat, I will still beleive in god.

Scientist have no idea what creates life.

Why all the atheism.

well in saying that LouisLaBelle prove to us that God exists and then maybe i will consider the creationists point of view.

quote:

Originally posted by LouisLaBelle Until scientist can prove what happens when the sprem hits the egg and can explain how a small seed grows into a plant we can eat, I will still beleive in god. Scientist have no idea what creates life. Why all the atheism.

Chemical reactions.
Atheism is an option. About humans making that leap... well just imagine a curious guy watching a plant day after day. He must have realized how things worked, seed drops in the ground, it rains, seed grows... but all this is subjective, it really depends on what you want to believe.

Now about the Darwin theory... that's not subjective, that's a proven fact! Someone who doesn't believe that is just plain stupid/ignorant.

quote:

Originally posted by LouisLaBelle Until scientist can prove what happens when the sprem hits the egg and can explain how a small seed grows into a plant we can eat, I will still beleive in god. Scientist have no idea what creates life.

your first argument is for sure easy to prove, as for your secound argument, what creates life? why does something has to create life? in case something creates life, how do it create life?

quote:

Originally posted by LouisLaBelle

Your argument can actually be summarized as the following:

"I don't understand the principles of modern science, therefore nobody understands them, therefore they aren't true, therefore whatever crap theory I come up with must be true. You're all just a bunch of bullies!"

You can see how each comma leads to another logical misstep. I think you missed the point of this thread, so maybe you should just quit while you're ahead (or at least not too far behind).

Occrider, these links are great. I'm still reading through them, some of these I've never seen before. Logical fallacies are something everybody should be taught in high school - for the life of me I can't understand why they're not, I think they used to be.

The ignorance in this country still amazes me.

Here's my basic contention with the teaching of "creationsism" in science classrooms. Science is the study of emperical data resultant from repeatable, observable phenomenon. Faith (or philosophy), is exactly the opposite: personal belief based on non-emperical data from non-repeatable or non-existant sources. Creationism falls into the latter category, as there is no way to oberserve or recreate the events of "creation." We aren't able to witness a human spring forth from dirt, nor the spontaneous generation of a living thing from nothing, as a creationist would want us to believe. Evolution however, is observable and repeatable. From Finch studies on the Galapagos islands to antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria, we have countless real-world examples of evolution at work.

My undergrad degree is in evolutionary biology, and I'll tell you, it makes me sick to my stomach to see how people are able to blind themselves to years of scientific data in order to pursue their own agenda and philosophy. If you want to teach creationism fine, but teach it in English class as a philosophy, not a science, as it couldn't be farther from it.

A Southern State that is teaching creationism as a science over evolution, no. Amazed that they haven't stop teaching evolution as yet in Georgia, they'll get there eventually though. Don't we all know that God created man out of a rib bone as taught by the good book. Sheesh people quit questioning creationism it makes good sense, its the word of God

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Your argument can actually be summarized as the following: "I don't understand the principles of modern science, therefore nobody understands them, therefore they aren't true, therefore whatever crap theory I come up with must be true. You're all just a bunch of bullies!" You can see how each comma leads to another logical misstep. I think you missed the point of this thread, so maybe you should just quit while you're ahead (or at least not too far behind).

IOW, Argument from Ignorance, or Argument from Personal Astonishment:

http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~lindsay...tonishment.html
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/ignorant.html

I've run across a number of websites, but I honestly think Talkorigins is by far the best place to start. Here's a few to add off the top of my head:

Talkorigins Links

Creationism

More Evolution Links

Noah's Ark: A sinking ship

Precambrian to Cambrian

Phylum Level Evolution

Dr. Bruce Grant confirms Peppered Moths

All Mutations Harmful? Meet the Nylon Bug

Intelligent Design? Here's some of God's Greatest Mistakes

Oh geez, I just found this gem:

Dr. Dino Iraq Creation Ministry

I should mention, however, that the best information I've ever received has come from a number of internet forums. Here's a few:

Infidels

Yahoo Groups: Evo vs. ID

Creation/Evolution Debate
(my current favorite)

It is important, however, to know and understand the other side of the debate. The best way to debate is to fully understand the other opponent's arguments ("know thy enemy"). So here's a few Creationist websites that anyone interested should go to:

The One and Only Kent Hovind (aka Dr. Dino)

Phillip Johnson's Discovery Institute

Creationism (Mostly Young Earth)

Dembski's Design Inference

Institute for Creation Research

Rebuttal of Talk Origin

ISCID Website (created by Dembski)

This last one is an interesting website IMO. It's basically a place where IDers post their papers that entertain the idea of ID (Intelligent Design). It's funny to me because they know damn well that they can't post these papers in any peer-reviewed science journal, so this is their escape route. What's more interesting is their forum: Brainstorms. Each time they post their theories they get thoroughly ripped apart by Evolutionists each time. What's obvious is the fact that they have some interesting hypothesis (including Dembski), but they can never seem to get past that first step and go further into conducting testable experiments or observations. Hell, they can't even propose a mechanism behind their hypothesis. And therein lies the rub for IDer's: they can't get past the hypothesis stage.

So what do they do as an alternative? They change the playing field. Since they cannot be scrutinized with Methodological Naturalism like every other science, they want to invent their own. Neat, huh?

I understand why a number of posters outside the U.S. are perplexed by this Evolution/Creationism debate. There honestly wouldn't be much of a debate outside the realms of science and religious philosophers, had it not penetrated the walls of high school education. Unfortunately, it has done just that with a number of State BOE over the years. Sadly, this includes my own state (Kansas) a number of years ago, thanks to a couple of Fundies on our State BOE and the influence of Phillip Johnson. Thankfully we had a couple of them thrown out of the BOE through elections and the Moderates overturned the ruling for Creationism being taught. This has also occurred in Georgia, Ohio, Arkansas, amongst others. Religious fundamentalism has quite a firm grip on this country, and this extremism has unfortunately done it's damage in the classroom.

I've said it before, religion has absolutely no place in the schools. It especially has no place in the science classroom. If creationism is to be taught anywhere outside of a church, perhaps a philosophy class is most suitable. Trouble is, it can't even stand the scrutiny in there with it's given logical fallacies, but this is where it should remain. Until Creationism comes up with positive, testable, and falsifiable model that can predict future obervations and tests, it does not belong in the same planet as science.

Damnit Occ, why'd you have to push my buttons?

That guy with a monkey face and a cowboy hat is destroying your country. Better kill him before he finishes it off.

www.bushorchimp.com

quote:

Originally posted by borron That guy with a monkey face and a cowboy hat is destroying your country. Better kill him before he finishes it off. www.bushorchimp.com

Well in all honesty, it really has nothing to do with bush. State legislatures determine the education programs, not the federal government.

Now I'm getting downright fucking pissed off!!!:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/0...n.ap/index.html

What the fuck is wrong with these stupid fucking people?

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Now I'm getting downright fucking pissed off!!!: http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/0...n.ap/index.html What the fuck is wrong with these stupid fucking people?

Georgia has yet to evolve?

Let me further add a part of that piece that really gets me up in arms:

quote:

Cox repeatedly referred to evolution as a "buzzword" Thursday and said the ban was proposed, in part, to alleviate pressure on teachers in socially conservative areas where parents object to its teaching. "If teachers across this state, parents across this state say, 'This is not what we want,' then we'll change it," said Cox, a Republican elected in 2002.

Why do religious parents have a say in what is a scientific fact or not?

Un-fucking-believable.

To their credit, I appreciate this last part from the Social Conservatives:

quote:

Social conservatives who prefer religious creation to be taught instead of evolution criticized the proposal as well. "If you're teaching the concept without the word, what's the point?" said Rep. Bobby Franklin, a Republican. "It's stupid. It's like teaching gravity without using the word gravity."

Now I really need a fucking beer.

Ladies and gentlemen ... I give you the Georgia student of tomorrow!


What the Georgia BOE envisions:





Reality:


"The doctor said that I wouldn't have so many nose bleeds if I kept my finger out of there!"

And perhaps the georgian of today

Ahaha.

Drug Tito was right. We should have let the South have their own little country to wallow in their own misery. As for me, I'm leaving as soon as I can.


Seriously though, the religious extremists (who are a small minority) have used ingenious tactics in order to gain as much power as they have from the local to the National level. I must give them credit where it's due.

Hey Mr.Opus, just found this site ... it's awesome.

The Skeptics Annotated Bible

It should really get under the skin of any quoting bible thumpers you may encounter.

Man ... we've amassed a pretty good collection here. I kind of want to get into an argument now. Where did whoahnellie go? Are there any IDers we can lure here to ambush?

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.