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Life after University.
So is it all it's said to be?
Pretty much finished university, and now its my time to find a full time job and start my career. Having been job hunting since last september, my question i pose to you is a university degree all it is said to be?
If i had my time again when i was 18 finishing high school, theres prolly no way in hell i would go to university. Why do I say this. I find if you arent 199% commited to university its pretty pointless. Sure your gonna get your degree with a C average or wateva, but from my experiences its the last thing an employee looks at, so why waste 4 years doing it.
I must admit in writing this i am a bit soured by the whole job hunting experience, a pile of rejection letters and emails sitting right next to me lol. How is a 22 year old supposed to have minimum 3 years commercial experience. 
Anyways was wondering what uni leavers or people that left school @ 18 thought, and if they would do anything differently or even there experiences. And yes i know there was a similar thread before.
edit: i did a Information Systems course, was looking for pl/sql development, data analysis jobs. Just more oracle/database stuff.
thats what you get for getting an IS degree rather than a CS degree 
but yeah. Getting experience, and a decent amount of it, is a pain the ass. Im lucky i got my job when i did or i probably would be like you in 6 months times. Done with uni with no experience. Go back and do honours? At least you can bum around for another year or so.
I completed the HSC/Yr 12... was accepted to do HR at Uni but decided I wasn't committed enough to go through another 4yrs of study. Plus living out of home was expensive and I didn't like the idea of being constantly flat broke like my friends.
I started looking for entry level positions in HR/Recruitment companies & luckily I was able to start full-time with a very small company within a month. Since then it's been all good and the 3 companies I have worked for have supplied all the on-the-job training/support I could've wished for.
I wouldn't change a thing. I am exactly where I want to be with work and I was able to spend my time learning while earning $, so my lifestyle didn't have to suffer too much.
On the other hand friends who did go through Uni are also equally as happy to have that bit of paper in their hands.. but like you say Paulie, alot of places request experience that you don't often get while at Uni. I guess it really depends on the industry/job market etc.
should of picked a course where you get that piece of paper you know there is a demand out there for you.
Im lucky like that though, can pick a number of countries which i can go to.... first stop UK to hunt down rob dougan 
and the pay is better then in australia 
Mmmmmm... interesting thread - don't remember seeing a similar one b4 but that might be just cos I haven't been round these forums for very long...
Paulie: Basically with me I'm the exact opposite of the path you have gone down... I pretty much failed Year 12 (1997) How could someone fail? Well... I f'n did somehow - only one in my school to achieve such a lowly status Just completely had had enough of the crap that school was... Was more interested in "escaping" each day + getting into the bongs and all... And obviously as a result never went to Uni or anything... Could have went to TAFE I guess but at the time I just wanted to hit the "freedom" of life after school... Couldn't think of studying any more at all...
Luckily I had my one passion in IT which I was all pretty much self-taught in... And I just had this delusional idea that I would be snapped up + in a well paid job in no time etc etc... But it was quite the opposite - for 1.5 years outside school I was just doing part time work here + there... And then finally landed my first FT job... Lasted there for 6 months + then was again jobless for a few months... Then in March 2000 I landed the job where I am at still to this day... Was very very lucky to get it - got my foot in the door + all that...
And right now I'm about to embark on an IT course at TAFE (part time evenings)... Which would probably mean nothing when compared to any sort of IT Degree from Uni... But beggars can't be choosers right? Maybe one day I'll end up at Uni...
But now I'm 24, haven't studied at all for 6 years straight + am about to get back into it again... And boy do I wish that things wen't differently... If I had had the choice to go back I'd definitely have gone to Uni... Sure things are working out for me now - but I can't help thinking about the "what if..."
It's almost like a chunk missing out of my life that so many others experience but I simply missed out on...
So anyways... My point is, that it's a long hard slog - you can't expect everything to fall into your lap... Your degree would definitely help you in the long run... Once you get some good experience under your belt you compared to me in a job interview and they would just show me the door straight away!
Maybe you should set your bar a bit lower in terms of what work you will accept? Obviously all should be IT based, but why not try to get in thru the easier tasks + work your way up? That's what I have pretty much done at the job I am at now...
The stuff I was doing when I first got to my current job I absolutely hated... But it was work + slowly but surely I could see a future there...
So, anyways... Enough of my rambling about my past - most of the earlier times I would rather forget... But, basically the grass is always greener on the other side isn't it?!
I would do anything to have gone down your path... But meanwhile you, having got that piece of paper in your hand expect everything to just come to you with the snap of a finger... And, basically with IT the way it is these days that just ain't gonna happen...
Believe in yourself... Keep on plugging away + and it'll all eventually turn ur way
i did an IT degree and when left uni it was just after the net frenzy had crashed (badly) so entry level positions became scarce and demanded a lot more from candidates (x years of commercial experience, strong skills in 5+ applications, etc). i spent a good 4-6 months applying for IT positions, got myself on several agency lists, but it wasn't happening. Just a bad time to graduate. Eventually depression hit. Luckily for me I had support from friends and motivation from my gf (at the time).
I wasn't broke though, as I was working in a call centre (I'd been there for two years, having started during uni) so I used the customer service experience to get me into a technology company (TPG). They were paying $13 per hour. I wanted in so I buried the pride and accepted. A month later I applied for both OzEmail and AOL tech support. Got offered both. I went to AOL, did tech support for 3 months and hated it with a passion.
I started looking back at what I was good at -- customer service Landed a nice customer service job in an IT company this time (through Seek), took a slight drop in pay but the company was better located and the environment was much more positive.
14 months later and I'm a Team Leader, and enjoying the opportunities that I'm currently being presented with. Pay has jumped considerably since that $13/hr @ TPG and my team is great.
A tip Paulie - don't limit yourself to what you studied. I was sending out 15-20 emails a day for ANY position that I felt I was qualified for, just as a temporary step to get me into the IT industry. Now that I'm in the industry, I can't see myself going back and following the technical/programming path that I had studied in uni.
Get yourself to interviews and then SELL yourself. That's the key. If you present yourself as confident and able to face challenges, interviewers will take note of you. At one point I was doing 2-3 interviews every second day.
When I hire people I look for the attitude. Sure the experience helps separate candidates but I've found that someone with years of experience isn't necessarily the right person for the job if I don't see them fitting in with the team.
Of course, a lot of the stuff I learnt in uni is outdated or not really applicable to my current role. However, I don't consider it a waste. It was an experience that helped me develop personally to to where I am today, and I'd gladly repeat it again.
Moral of the story? Persistence pays off.
In the time that you are looking for work, be productive. Write applications, make websites, go back and review what you learnt in uni (oracle, sql, etc), learn new technologies and tools. The more you can add to your resume the more you can sell yourself.
You will get there, maybe not the way you envisioned or planned, but if you stick with it and keep focused -- it'll happen for you.
or just find a course for about $480 (if i've converted from pommie pounds right) that will lead u to a job thats underpaid but what u want to do 
| quote: |
| Originally posted by mikey79 I pretty much failed Year 12 (1997) How could someone fail? Well... I f'n did somehow... Was more interested in "escaping" each day + getting into the bongs and all |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by jizza i'm no dr. phil here but do you reckon there's some correlation there? i'm not being judgemental either, just thought perhaps maybe you answered your own question... sorry if it comes across a bit damning, its just an observation. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by mikey79 jizza: Correlation between what? Answered my own question? Are you directing this at me? Cos if you are I'd like to know what you're getting at... |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by mikey79 jizza: Correlation between what? |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Ian^ or just find a course for about $480 (if i've converted from pommie pounds right) that will lead u to a job thats underpaid but what u want to do |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Rememberence_ wot u on about cricket boy? |
well paulie I studied science majoring in biology and I don't think I have ever worked in that field.
now happily unemployed.
(oh I had 126 job rejections before I landed first real job.)
Research tends to indicate that going to uni and finishing your degree is worse for you in the short term, but over the next 10 years you'll probably be well ahead of those who didn't go to uni.
Once you get to about age 28 or so, you tend to hit this glass ceiling where you can't quite get to the next rung of the ladder because people with degrees come off as better qualified.
I'm not saying this is 100% the case, there are always exceptions to a rule. But it holds true more often than not.
The thing about uni is that it isn't what you learn that's most important. In fact, when you get your first job directly related to your studies, the first thing your employer will probably do is send you on a bunch of training courses. More important to a potential employer is the fact that you've learned to think in a certain way, and to be critical and questioning of the world around you. Also that you've had the dedication and temerity to stick around for 3-5 years of crappy lectures.
I'm probably a pretty good example of this, given that my degree (journalism) is completely unrelated to the job I've been doing for the last 2 years (data analysis and programming).
So the bottom line is, don't regret staying at uni
Wot Webby said Took all the words right outta my mouth
A lot of employers don't look for a specific kind of degree, because they're more interested in the kind of generic skills that come with any degree....u learn a ton of stuff from studying at uni that is useful in pretty much any job situation - and it can often give u the edge over ppl who don't have that piece of paper - because an employer knows they don't have to start from scratch with u - u've already done the basic groundwork, meaning they can put their resources into giving u very specific skill training...
I double majored and did honours in psych......and I'm now working in the public service, kinda sorta in the financey/economy/service delivery field....so I'm using all the generic stuff from my degree, but not really the more specific stuff....it's not that I don't wanna work in psych - it's that I wanted to get out in the real world for a while and get established and earn good money before I go back and do my Masters....and all the stuff I learned how to do at uni is allowing me to do that Without having gone to uni, I doubt very much I'd be in as decent a position as I am now.....and I wouldn't have had somebody pay to move me the hell away from Tasmania *lol* So, for me, uni was definitely the right thing.....I haven't regretted it and I'm sure in the long-term u won't either Paulie
Yeah it can really suck when employers seem to be mostly looking for ppl with experience.....but, you have to kinda turn it around and make ur lack of practical experience seem like a positive thing. On the applications I sent out after uni, I made a point of saying things like "yes, I realise I don't have a lot of practical experience - but that's because I've devoted the last few years to really applying myself at uni so that I could acquire and develop the skills and personal drive which I know would enable me to be an asset to any employee. now that i've finished uni and acquired those skills, i'm eager to have the opportunity to apply them in practice. if your company gave me this opportunity, i know that i could be an asset to you and help in achieving your goals."
So, it's really a matter of selling yourself in the right way....if u don't necessarily have all the experience they say they're looking for, turn that around and express it in a positive way....don't hide it, and don't ignore it - if ur open and honest about it and tell the employer how ur willing to overcome it, then i bet in a lot of cases they won't dismiss ur application like they would if they just saw u had no experience and u hadn't even bothered to mention that fact in ur application.................that was my approach, and it landed me the first job i applied for after uni (i asked my boss after i'd been in the job a while why they hired me in the first place, and they said the covering letter in my application was so refreshing and honest and well-written that they knew it was worth takin a chance on me....so it DOES help!!)
Hang in there.......don't waste ur time sitting around regretting the things u've already done that u can't change now....work on selling the things u've done positively and using them to ur advantage
life's over after uni. not enough time to drink and play pool anymore. as for a career path, i think the only people who are left in the field I studied in are the ones who took 6 years to get a 4 year degree. They put in so much time they want to make use of it.
i guess i'm one of the lucky ones who qualified when jobs in our field were plentiful. we had one guy who wanted to take a year off after finishing, and he was constantly getting calls from the head of the school cos they had a stack of jobs they couldn't fill.
getting started is always going to be the hardest, and the only real use for most degrees is to put it on your resume so some scanning program can tick the right boxes. on the other hand I cannot find a decent graduate or young un to work in software support for an ERP package. anyone out there think they can work in a prehistoric language like RPG? Any young comp sci graduates even heard of RPG these days?
lol @ tubby.
In all seriousness thanks for the advice everyone, didnt expect to get such a serious response. I apologize for making it look like in my first post that ive just quit looking, and ive had enough. Anyone that knows me knows that im a persistent and annoying ****** and i shall continue in my pursuits.
In the meantime i might do what erratik said and be productive, and keep my skills in check, no point me sitting around and feeling sorry for myself. HOpefully i wont be at BP for long, cause this trooper is ready to snap. lol
Once again thanx for everyones advice, much appreciated and its something i needed
awww...feel the luv
on a side note.....paulie how long r u gonna have 'tiesto withdrawals' under ur name?? every time i see it i get terrible pictures in my head of tiesto practicing a certain contraceptive method *lol* that's the last thing i want in my head!!!!
hehehe ill change it for you. Gotta admit theres still some withdrawals from that nite. Was a bumper nite, even armin was a great nite, cant say it wasnt.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Paulie hehehe ill change it for you. Gotta admit theres still some withdrawals from that nite. Was a bumper nite, even armin was a great nite, cant say it wasnt. |
Yep, i think we all been down this road, and if not, u shall come across it soon enough... Paulie, dont forget 2 bend the truth a little in your resume... ohh, and enjoy the extra free time while u can, once u get full time job, its your 2nd wife... if not 1st...
I didn't know what I wanted to do when i finished school, i'd had enough studying so didn't want to do uni. I worked in entry level positions for about 3 years in finance companys, before heading off to London for 2 years and Canada for 1 year. Got back last September from Whistler and applied for uni. Did ok in the STAT exam, but still didn't get into my business course. End result is, i now have to study my first year through correspondence.
If your stuck on what to do, I can't recommend travelling enough. Going to London was the best thing I ever did, and employers look highly upon you if you've travelled, as you have shown independence, initiative etc. I found it fairly easy to get work in London as well, and they never seemed to mind that I turned up every monday a dribbling wreck from clubbing all weekend!
I wouldn't trade my London or european travelling memories for anything, not even the uni degree I'm now attempting.
To be honest I was a little disconcerted about going to uni for the same reasons you have mentioned, I spent 1 year and a half looking for work in what is unfortunately a very specialised field so Im probbably a little different. But in the end I had to move to a regional town to get work, it really ate dogs balls but as it turned out the position was a government one and whilst i was working there I was getting great training and applying for positions back in civlisation. After a year I got work back in town and was much better for it.
All said and done I think it really depends on what field you are involved in, I have a friend that has a degree in Botany but works as a sparky earining far more money that he ever would in his studied field, and as a sparky a degree means zippo. On the other hand I see another one of my friends who never went to uni but has 8 years experience behind him, yet by next year I will surpass his pay and responsibility levels with less than half of his experience. As Webby mentioned he now has to turn around and consider study simply coz he doesnt have a degree.
Paul,
As discussed on the weekend at your birthday party. The way the world works is this - everyone looks after their friends. This applies to everything. Even working in a job, people try to get their friends in before the job actually goes to the public. Friggen great stuff isnt it? All i can say is that i was like you for 6 months after my course and didnt get one interview in the network admin side that i was after.. Now im at a huge national insurance firm as you know doing their IT support.. and the most i have to complain about all day is how bored i get sometimes at work which i dont mean to sound arrogant or anything just that if you dont give up there will be something waiting for you.
Make sure your always whoring those job seeking web pages, go full on and mail your resume heaps.. one thing i would recommend is a job seeking agency, vilena went temping with those guys and never not had work for a full year then they landed her a full time job as you know a month or so back.. anyways man, you have the brains, you have the paper, its like you have the bait and the fishing line.. just dont get fed up waiting for those fish cause they will start biting, and when they do youll be the one in this seat offering your advice to the next guy whos down about this fucked up job seeking process.
Much love,
your friend dave.
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