Cartridge Upgrade Recommendations

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Posted by WeasiL on Feb-26-2004 18:56:

Cartridge Upgrade Recommendations

hey whats up everyone... i was thinking of upgrading my now aging stanton trackmaster 2 rs cartridges on tech m3d's to something a bit better. i was never too happy with them... dont hold in the groove very well and i always had to keep my tracking weight around 4.5g and anti-skate at 3 to prevent skipping... was thinking of the whitlabels everyone has been talking about. oh and i dont scratch or anything...

thanks

Posted by `pr0digy on Feb-26-2004 20:34:

I have a Stanton Trackmaster II and it sucks. The Whitelabels track great plus they take less than 2 grams to do it, can't wait till I can afford a pair ;p

Posted by WeasiL on Feb-26-2004 20:51:

im surprised at the stantons as they werent that cheap either... i think i paid like 185 or so for a pair... what are the whitelabels around $120 a piece? and is there anything better then the shures i should be looking at?

Posted by T:REBEL on Feb-26-2004 21:35:

Anti-Skate on 3REE?

Damn!

What did you expect from the elliptical needles of the RS version of the TRACKMASTERS? Elliptical needles have a harder time staying in the groove.

Posted by T:REBEL on Feb-26-2004 21:38:

I'm an OM/standard cart freak, so naturally I would say these:

Ortofon OM DJ-S
Ortofon OM NC-S
Shure M44-G

Posted by auujay on Feb-26-2004 22:19:

quote:
Originally posted by T:REBEL
Anti-Skate on 3REE?

Damn!

What did you expect from the elliptical needles of the RS version of the TRACKMASTERS? Elliptical needles have a harder time staying in the groove.

An anti-skate of 3 is not suprising because his weight is so high, anti-skate can be guesstimated to be the same as your weight.

I am pretty sure elliptical needles are supposed to hold the groove better then spherical. Though I guess Stanton's may not track very well no matter what

Posted by trancintaiwan on Feb-26-2004 22:28:

i have whitelabels. my height is at 4 mm. my antiskate is 0. my weight is at 2.5. never skips, even when i backcue fast. you can probably find a pair on ebay for 150. i bought my pair for 120 on ebay... so good deals are around... just gotta look.

Posted by `pr0digy on Feb-27-2004 02:23:

Wait, the Trackmaster 2's are elliptical ? Motherfuck...

Posted by dartman on Feb-27-2004 07:56:

Trackmaster 2 SKs are spherical, the Trackmaster 2 RSs (roger sanchez) are elliptical, the groovemaster 2 RMs are elliptical

Posted by `pr0digy on Feb-27-2004 15:23:

quote:
Originally posted by dartman
Trackmaster 2 SKs are spherical, the Trackmaster 2 RSs (roger sanchez) are elliptical, the groovemaster 2 RMs are elliptical

Ah, I have the SK version. They still seem to jump all over the place though. The slightest movement makes the whole cart sort of shake around the needle.

Posted by dartman on Feb-27-2004 16:27:

yeah, i have a set of the trackmaster 2SKs that i got before i got my decks and they jumped around all the time too. then i replaced the stylus with groovemaster 2RM tips but they still jumped around abit, but they sounded alot better. then i bought some M44Gs and havent looked back. i cant make these puppies skip and i only have 1.5 grams of tracking force. they dont really have as much bass as i would like but they dont sound all that bad and w/ the really low tracking force i cant imagine that they are eating up my vinyl too much.

Posted by Wildfir3 on Feb-27-2004 17:08:

quote:
Originally posted by `pr0digy they take less than 2 grams to do it

I don't know for sure but i've always wondered about this: isnt the 'only 2 grams' just a marketing 'bullshit' stunt? I mean, it's great if it only requires 2 grams or so, but isnt that because the element + needle weigh more than others, such as concordes?

I'm probably wrong, but since the whitelabels look so big and huge and stuff, i always thought the tracking force was compensated or something.

Posted by spit_heron on Feb-27-2004 17:20:

i have trackmaster II rs. was never really happy with them. 4.5g, 3 anti-skate, man your poor records. i get by with 2.5g and nil anti-skate.

i think its not recommended to switch to a spherical needle after using an elliptical, but i don't see many people making a point of it here. still, it makes sense to keep with one shape, since thats whats already worn into your records.

sucks too, cause i wanted to upgrade to a set of whitelabels. i'm just gonna spring for a pair of nightclub so i can stop being fustrated with the skipping and sound of the TM II rs.

Posted by WeasiL on Feb-27-2004 17:47:

hmm well after reading a bunch of posts i think i might go with the concorde nightclubs... guess i should stick with the eliptical stylus as well. was also looking at the concorde gold's, anyone try these? in the mean time i rebalanced my TM 2 RS's and now use a 3.5g with a 1.5 anti-skate. tested a few records and it seems ok... on some records however it does skip around if i get a bit more aggressive in the backqueing... i guess it depends on the quality of the pressing as well...

Posted by auujay on Feb-27-2004 18:24:

I believe the Concorde Gold is really just a painted nightclub. The idea is that it will match your 25 year (or something I forget which one) anniversory gold plated Technics.

About switching between spherical and elliptical. I have really only seen a couple people preach that and the only real authority I have read (the massive ortofon thread on futureproducers where the Ortofon engineer was answering tons of questions) did not mention it. I think it is a moot point. Howerever even if it is only a minor issue, because you are playing your records with 4.5 grams it might effect you more then most.

Regarding light tracking weights, if you have good needles you can get very low tracking weights. If some company was claiming you could backqueue and everything with less than 1 gram of weight I would be skeptical but under 2 is reasonable.
The theory that the reason the Whitelables get away with it is because the headshell is so heavy... I wonder if you are balancing your tone arm correctly. Because if you are you would realize that the "tracking force" is the weight added to a perfectly balanced tone arm so it does not matter how heavy the headshell is.
The proper procedure is to put the headshell and stylus (without any removable guard of any kind) and put it over the platter. Now adjust the weight on the back so the tone arm is perfectly level and hovers over the record. Now adjust the guage on the back to read 0 grams in this position. Next rotate the weight to the desired number (and lets hope to God it is under 4 grams ).

Posted by WeasiL on Feb-27-2004 19:36:

ahh i see, yea the golds had the same specs so i wasnt sure... think i will just stick with eliptical...

yea i definatly balanced it correctly and used a weight of 3.5g this time... i did however adjust the height a bit more. i noticed it wasnt perfectly parallel the last time i setup my decks so i lower it a bit more. maybe this is why when i was previously using a lower weight i was skipping more often, thats why i pushed it to 4.5g. i guess i'll find out for sure if i can live with the now 3.5g when i get a good set in.

thanks for the info!

Posted by borron on Mar-01-2004 13:41:

quote:
Originally posted by Wildfir3
I don't know for sure but i've always wondered about this: isnt the 'only 2 grams' just a marketing 'bullshit' stunt? I mean, it's great if it only requires 2 grams or so, but isnt that because the element + needle weigh more than others, such as concordes?

I'm probably wrong, but since the whitelabels look so big and huge and stuff, i always thought the tracking force was compensated or something.

I have mine at 2.5 gr with 2.5 mm height, and it works perfectly. It can work at 2 grams, but it doesn't allow any scratching.

trancinchink, you can lower your height a bit without any problem, keep in mind height also matters for record wear...