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-- Congratulations Ohio School Board - you are the new anti-evo suckers!

Congratulations Ohio School Board - you are the new anti-evo suckers!

I gotta hand it to the well-funded machinery of Philip Johnson's Discovery Institute. They know how to keep themselves disguised and cloaked. This bastard weaseled his way into temporary changes in my state School Board, and thankfully the voters woke up and ousted the fundamentalist idiots out. One can only hope the same thing happens in Ohio.

And if anyone wants to know, yes, Intelligent Design is merely another form of Creationism. And yes, like all other Creationist theories, it has absolutely no observed, positive, tested, repeatable, evidence to support itself, and must rely on the Argument from Ignorance/God of the Gaps fallacy.

OK, I'm done venting:

quote:

Ohio evolution lesson plan irks science groups COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- The state school board Tuesday approved a lesson plan for teaching evolution that includes what critics contend is a religious theory "cloaked as science." Supporters argued the lesson plan offers scientific ways to analyze evolution, but scientific groups objected and critics said they expected a lawsuit. After six hours of testimony, the board voted 13-5 in favor of "Critical Analysis of Evolution," an optional set of lessons for schools to use in teaching science for a new graduation test. Critics say the lessons contain elements of a theory called intelligent design, which states a higher power must have been involved in the creation of life. "I am convinced this is a religious effort cloaked as science," said board member Robin Hovis. At issue is 22 pages out of more than 500 that schools can use to teach new science standards approved last year for all grades. No student will be tested on intelligent design, said board president Jennifer Sheets. The vote was applauded by the Seattle-based Discovery Institute, which supports scientists studying intelligent design theory, and says states should teach both evolution and scientific criticism of evolutionary theory. The vote "is a significant victory for students and their academic freedom to study all sides of current scientific debates over evolutionary theory," said Bruce Chapman, Discovery Institute president. Board member Sam Schloemer complained the lessons "further erode the status and the value of Ohio's public education system because it is without scientific evidence," he said. Several scientific organizations, including the National Academy of Sciences, are opposed to the lessons. Others predicted the plan would be challenged in court. "They're standing in line -- high school teachers, board members, parents, the students themselves," said Patricia Princehouse, a Case Western Reserve University philosophy professor who has led lobbying efforts against the lessons. Board member James Turner, appointed to the board by Gov. Bob Taft, said he was impressed by the number of scientists in favor of the lessons, arguing opponents were "allowing their fear of what this lesson could lead to" to reflect their views. The board should rely on the guidance of evolutionary biologists with experience studying evolution, argued Stephen Weeks, a University of Akron biologist. "If someone's an expert and they're telling you they need a brain tumor removed in a certain way, that's weighted more than your mechanic's opinion," Weeks said. The state school board a lesson plan on evolution Tuesday that critics say tries to cloak religion in science. Supporters say it offers scientific ways to analyze evolution theory. http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/0...e.ap/index.html

Wasn't Toad@*##%$& or whoever the hell they were from Ohio? Then somebody called me a racist cuz I was making fun of Ohio. The Drew Cary show sucks my balls. Cleveland blows. What the hell is going on in that state???? Does anything good come out of it??

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Originally posted by occrider Does anything good come out of it??

What are you talking about?? I think our friends Palestinian and Cyrus King were born in Ohio

oh no! what did I do?! please, please don't turn this into a pal-israel thread

Occ...don't shit on my state!

It really was a sad/shocking day for me yesterday. I remember last year sitting in my evolutionary biology class debating this very issue, laughing at even the thought that this would become a reality. Unfortunatly, ignorance has prevailed, and with it religion has leaked into the public school system. Already underfunded, the last thing the public school system needs here is this type of controversy. I'm hoping that since it is an "optional" lesson plan, most of the school districts will choose not to teach it. Although I realize that in all reality, the religious groups pushing for this curriculum change are both strong and well organized and I wouldn't be suprised to see it take effect in many school districts. It's a sad time for the validity of Ohio's public school system.

On another note, I would like to say that Steven Speilberg, Halle Berry, Martin Sheen, Thomas Edison, the Wright Brothers, John Glenn, Neil Armstrong, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Cy Young, Jesse Owens, Jack Nicklaus and most importantly Devo are all from Ohio (to name a few off the top of my head).

For the most part, Ohio sucks, but at least we don't have an accent!

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Wasn't Toad@*##%$& or whoever the hell they were from Ohio? Then somebody called me a racist cuz I was making fun of Ohio. The Drew Cary show sucks my balls. Cleveland blows. What the hell is going on in that state???? Does anything good come out of it??

My opinion is that Texas is still better than Ohio, and we have lots of nuts here.

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Originally posted by NeoPhono For the most part, Ohio sucks, but at least we don't have an accent!

I don't have one either!

GG central Texas!

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Originally posted by DaveSZ I don't have one either! GG central Texas!

You're from central Texas and you don't have an accent? Audio or stfu.

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Originally posted by NeoPhono Occ...don't shit on my state! It really was a sad/shocking day for me yesterday. I remember last year sitting in my evolutionary biology class debating this very issue, laughing at even the thought that this would become a reality. Unfortunatly, ignorance has prevailed, and with it religion has leaked into the public school system. Already underfunded, the last thing the public school system needs here is this type of controversy. I'm hoping that since it is an "optional" lesson plan, most of the school districts will choose not to teach it. Although I realize that in all reality, the religious groups pushing for this curriculum change are both strong and well organized and I wouldn't be suprised to see it take effect in many school districts. It's a sad time for the validity of Ohio's public school system. On another note, I would like to say that Steven Speilberg, Halle Berry, Martin Sheen, Thomas Edison, the Wright Brothers, John Glenn, Neil Armstrong, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Cy Young, Jesse Owens, Jack Nicklaus and most importantly Devo are all from Ohio (to name a few off the top of my head). For the most part, Ohio sucks, but at least we don't have an accent!

I tend to view this with a little bit of optimism, or shall I say, cautious optimism.

On the one hand, I tend to think it's somewhat a good thing to have Intelligent Design Theory (ID) on the same table as evolution so it can be equally scrutinized with the same measures as any scientific theory. IF, and this is a big IF, a knowledged science teacher can bring forth both theories and give them equal weight and show the evidence that supports both (or lack thereof in the case of ID), then I think the students can ultimately decide which theory holds water the best. And if that teacher does this in the most objective manner, then ID and any creationist theory will ultimately be exposed for what it truly is - an unsupported hypothetical wish. Because as I've stated over and over - any creationist theory has yet to show any positive, observed, tested, repeatable, and falsifiable evidence.

But that's a burden to put upon both the teacher and the student. The teacher has to be well versed and educated with evolution (not always the case), and the student needs to be interested enough to pay attention to the details (wishful thinking for many). What's problematic about this whole debate is that as you well know, the details of evolution are not exactly straightforward. And these details are certainly not given in completion in any high school textbook, primarily because of the complexity being beyond high school learning. This leaves the mere gyst and outlining of what evolution means, which is what many anti-evolutionists openly attack. When confronted with the details, however, the anti-evos usually cower, esp. when asked to give research details of their counter-theories.

Philip Johnson's Discovery Institute knows well this burden placed upon the student and teacher, and finds this to be the most appropriate battleground for his idiotic advocates. I do find it extremely strange that Johnson himself fully supports this ID theory being wedged in the science classrooms, considering ID theorists like Behe and Dembski both believe in the vast majority of evolutionary processes, including the evolution of man, and Johnson himself does not (self-proclaimed Young Earth Creationist to this day). I find that Creationist theorists make strange bedfellows, esp. when their core beliefs conflict so openly. Regardless, what is apparent is not their conflicting beliefs, but their continual drive to force evolution out of the classroom, and slowly incorporate untested, unobserved, Christian doctrine.

So in a sense I somewhat welcome this, provided that the unbiased biology teacher gives the same scientific scrutiny evolution has endured on to ID. It will most assuredly expose this fraudulent ID theory, provided it's done in an unbiased manner.

And besides, it may not yet come to that. As it was done here in Kansas, the people finally woke up and realized the religious wool being pulled over their eyes (yes, it actually happened here in the Bible Belt), and consequently voted these fundamentalist 'tards out and replaced them with more Moderate Republicans on the State School Board (hey, Moderates are better than nothing!).

Common sense will eventually prevail.

Oh, how would I like to turn this into a Europe vs. US debate...

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Oh, how would I like to turn this into a Europe vs. US debate...

If you're referring to how Europe vs. U.S. views of evo/creo, here, I'll be humble and make it easy for you -

You win.

OK, moving on.....

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Originally posted by MisterOpus1 If you're referring to how Europe vs. U.S. views of evo/creo, here, I'll be humble and make it easy for you - You win. OK, moving on.....

lol, that was just tooooo easy

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Originally posted by St_Andrew lol, that was just tooooo easy

Well, that's how much more evolved Europe is in comparison to the U.S. in this argument.

Hey, I made a funny!

So stop living in the past and accept GM crops already!

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Originally posted by occrider So stop living in the past and accept GM crops already!

Nah, we're already 2 centuries ahead of you because of the evolution theory. We'll wait till you catch up a bit.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Nah, we're already 2 centuries ahead of you because of the evolution theory. We'll wait till you catch up a bit.

Hold your horses there buddy! On the Origin of Speicies was published in 1859, so you only have 150 years, not 200 on us. We were getting pretty close, until we took a 100-year step backwards earlier this week.

Just today croatian government accepted several GM foods, so there!

And we're continually working on making our population evolve faster. Just look at all the Darwin awards we've received!

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(January 2002, Croatia) A Croatian was killed while trying to open a hand grenade with a chainsaw. He wanted to retrieve the explosive to make firecrackers for the New Year�s holiday.

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May 2001, Croatia | A college student dropped the ball when a hand grenade exploded while he was juggling it at a party in Vidovci. Six students watching him were also injured. A spectator is usually disqualified from winning a Darwin Award caused by another's idiocy, but this audience should have known better than to gape at a man juggling explosives. The six onlookers earn Honorable Mentions for their disregard of common sense, and the juggler wins a Darwin for his lethal stupidity.

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono Audio or stfu.

LOL, i dont think i've ever heard anyone say this....

i'm going to use this all the time when people start bragging about the lastest unheard PvD or Tiesto track thats under production.

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