TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- At least 186 killed in Madrid bombings.
Pages (7): [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 »

At least 186 killed in Madrid bombings.

Source: CNN


MADRID, Spain (CNN)

-- A series of co-ordinated bomb attacks on Madrid's commuter train system killed at least 186 people and wounded over 1,000 at the height of the city's rush hour, Spanish authorities tell CNN.

Spanish officials are blaming terrorists from the Basque separatist group ETA for the attack, but so far, there has been no claim of responsibility.

In an address to the nation, Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar took a firm stand against terror and terrorists, saying "there is no possible negotiation with these killers."

The Spanish Ambassador to the U.S., Javier Ruperez, said the incident was "in a way" Spain's September 11, referring to the terror attacks in the U.S. in 2001.

An official from Spain's northern Basque region called it the worst terrorist attack in Spanish history.

ETA, which has been designated a terrorist group by the United States and the European Union, is blamed for and has claimed responsibility for attacks that have killed 800 people over the years.

U.S. President George W. Bush called Aznar Thursday morning to express "solidarity with the people of Spain at this difficult moment," a National Security Council spokesman said.

The attacks took place at the height of Thursday's rush hour when three separate trains were hit by near-simultaneous explosions before 8 a.m. (2 a.m. ET) along the southern part of Madrid's train network, officials said.

Interior Minister Angel Acebes said there were a total of 10 explosions at the Santa Eugenia, El Pozo and Atocha stations, and three other bombs found and detonated by police.

The most deadly blast happened on a train entering Madrid's main Atocha station, according to Acebes.

Security forces found other bombs, and detonated them in controlled explosions, he added.

Survivors described scenes of chaos and panic in the Spanish capital.

"The worst was people screaming for help inside the train and there was nothing we could do," one survivor told CNN's Spanish sister network, CNN+.

People in tears walked away from the city's main Atocha station in droves as rescue workers carried bodies away from the scene.

Many people with bloodied faces sat on curbs, using mobile phones to tell loved ones they were alive. (More eyewitness)

The attack comes ahead of Sunday's general election in which Spain's conservative ruling Popular Party -- which has taken a hard-line stance against ETA -- is currently leading in the polls.

After the blasts, all political parties announced they were suspending campaign rallies ahead of Sunday's election, but there has been no word that elections would be suspended.

The government called for a three-day period of mourning and impromptu anti-ETA demonstrations have broken out in Madrid and other Spanish cities.


Demonstrators hold up their hands, calling for an end to violence, at a gathering in Seville.
Spanish police -- who have foiled several recent bombing attempts by ETA -- were on high alert for terror attacks by the separatist group ahead of Sunday's vote.

Video of the scene showed the train at Atocha broken into pieces by the force of the explosions.

Medical staff set up a field hospital to treat the wounded at the scene, and buses were mobilized to help ambulances transport the wounded to hospitals.

Shortly after the blasts, Basque leader Juan Jose Ibarretxe held a news conference from the Basque capital of Vitoria, condemning the violence and calling for demonstrations against ETA.

Basque member of Parliament Gustavo Aristegui -- who was in Madrid at the time of the attack -- also blamed ETA for the attack.

"This is probably Spain's worst terrorist attack in history -- not probably, surely our worst terrorist attack ever," Aristegui told CNN. "There are people that are real monsters that are trying to blackmail the whole society through acts of terror."

In an interview on Radio Popular in the Basque country, Arnaldo Otegi, leader of banned radical political party Batasuna, said he did not believe ETA was responsible for the attacks.

The attacks, he said, could have been "an operation by sectors of the Arab resistance."


Citizens queue up to donate blood in Madrid.
But Acebes said Otegi was simply trying to confuse the situation.

ETA has been fighting for an independent homeland in northern Spain. The attacks drew an immediate condemnation throughout Europe.

British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw called it "a disgusting assault on the very principle of European democracy."

Spanish Foreign Minister Ana Palacio placed the blame squarely on ETA, saying "we knew they are preparing a very big terror attack."

"ETA has a very clear pattern in its activities and we unfortunately have a long experience in dealing with them," she said. (More reaction)

On February 29, Spanish police seized more than 1,000 pounds of explosives and arrested two suspected ETA members who were planning to carry out an imminent attack in Madrid, an official said.

now 131 confirmed kills and 400 hurts.
Im
This is incredible. Madrid is a caos. Is like the 11 September

Latest update here:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europ...asts/index.html

what is the world coming to

Is anywhere on this earth safe ffs?

Scum of the earth terroists.....

quote:

Originally posted by Juanma This is incredible. Madrid is a caos. Is like the 11 September

My sympathies to you. It is very reminiscent of September 11th, especially with the scenes of people queueing in Madrid to give blood.

News now reporting that 3 more bombs have been found and disarmed. PM Aznar will be on in 2 minutes.

How can you complain about such things happening?

Afterall it's Spain's fault. How can someone blame the poor desperate people of the Basque, don't they know they have been severly oppressed for centuries? Spain should stop using force and preventing the Basque from living freely if they want an end to violence.

If the Spanish want to Basque to stop, they should remove every Spanish settlement in the Basque region and remove their police stations. At least then they would not be a severly occupied by the Inquistors.



For anyone that knows me, you know I don't mean any of the things above. However, this should be how most Europeans react to this event if they would like to remain compatiable with their other world views.

Today though is a great tradgey for Spain, and I send my condolences. Although people say Basque, it could be terror related. I know ETA usually is quick to take responsibility for its events, Al Qaeda on the otherhand doens't.

I just thought of something.. a train station so big, and with so many bombs placed there must have been at least one video camera there and it should have turned up something.

I wonder if they are going through them right now. I am sure they can see what exacly happened and if it is leaked to media...

If there was no video camera in such a public place, perhaps we should question again our debate about such tools?

Watching it on the news now. This is absolutely terrible.

Damn just saw the images on the news,horible scenes!!!
what a fucked up world we living in

Supposedly ETA is not even taking responsibility - talk about pointless killings.

Yoepus: Your analogy would be *totally spot on* if:
- Basques didn't have the same rights as anybody else in Spain,
- Spanish police and military regularly launched missiles into Basque villages,
- a majority of Basques wanted seperation from Spain, and
- Spanish authorities was confiscating land owned by Basques and built ugly and dangerous walls there.

I honestly wonder what sort of action the Spanish, European and world governments will take after this event. It is a horrible day, but I fear for the future even more. The Spanish fighting the Spanish is not a pleasant thought in my mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I know ETA usually is quick to take responsibility for its events, Al Qaeda on the otherhand doens't.

Ambassador Dennis Ross was on TV this morning saying that it was probably ETA, but you can't discount al Qaeda involvment. Al Qaeda has been "franchising" their terror, as evidenced by some links between muslim fundamentalists and the IRA in Northern Ireland, and the current links with Iraqi internal terror groups.

I tend to agree with his conclusions - it was probably ETA, but who knows who was helping them out.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus How can you complain about such things happening? Afterall it's Spain's fault. How can someone blame the poor desperate people of the Basque, don't they know they have been severly oppressed for centuries? Spain should stop using force and preventing the Basque from living freely if they want an end to violence. If the Spanish want to Basque to stop, they should remove every Spanish settlement in the Basque region and remove their police stations. At least then they would not be a severly occupied by the Inquistors. For anyone that knows me, you know I don't mean any of the things above. However, this should be how most Europeans react to this event if they would like to remain compatiable with their other world views. Today though is a great tradgey for Spain, and I send my condolences. Although people say Basque, it could be terror related. I know ETA usually is quick to take responsibility for its events, Al Qaeda on the otherhand doens't.

THERE IS NO ANY REASON IN THIS WORLD THAT CAN JUSTIFY THIS SLAUGHTER

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic Yoepus: Your analogy would be *totally spot on* if: - Basques didn't have the same rights as anybody else in Spain, - Spanish police and military regularly launched missiles into Basque villages, - a majority of Basques wanted seperation from Spain, and - Spanish authorities was confiscating land owned by Basques and built ugly and dangerous walls there.

Of course its spot on, the Basques have been discriminated against for centuries, no one will hire them, they can't run for office and McDonalds won't let them speak Basque` if they work for them.

Spain controls this territory illegally, the Basque once had their own independent nation in the Basque country and the brutal Spanish inqusitors took control if it in an illegal aggressive war. They have built many walls there, some of which are ugly, mostly around their houses... but still.

Obviously I can go on and on with this dumb analogy but I won't. The point here is that terrorism thrives even in the most illegitimate of cases.
In fact, you actually make my real point for me: if Palestinians had the same rights as Israelis, if Israel didn't launch regular missle raids into Palestinian villages, if the majority of Palestinians still didn't want independence, and if Israel did not confiscate land owned by Palestinians and build ugly and dangerous walls there, even then after all that there would still be terrorism.

So after understanding terrorism is not the effect of an 'occupation' or violated rights, but the causes as witness of this example, shouldn't your understanding change with the facts?

quote:

Originally posted by Juanma THERE IS NO ANY REASON IN THIS WORLD THAT CAN JUSTIFY THIS SLAUGHTER

I agree with you completely. However many here do not.

Interesting story from the UPI wires on why this might not be ETA:

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID...11-112725-1601r

"As one German intelligence officer lamented, 'now the war has reached Europe.'"

quote:

First, ETA generally warns Spanish authorities moments before launching their attacks in which civilians are likely to be harmed. This, obviously, was not the case on Thursday. Second, ETA traditionally targets representatives of the government or the administration, such as policemen, the military, magistrates or even journalists who oppose them. Third, ETA customarily selects "symbolic" targets, such as military barracks and administrative buildings. Although ETA's largest attack to date was in 1987 against a supermarket in Barcelona that killed 21 people, this was the exception rather than the norm. Fourth, ETA always claims its attacks. Following any ETA bombing, ETA militants call in a claim to Spanish authorities. This failed to happen this time. Fifth, ETA has never in the past carried out multiple attacks. According to some sources, at least 10 bombs were detonated almost simultaneously on Thursday.

God, Yoepus, you have to turn everything into an Israeli-Palestine debate, don't you? Basques aren't really discriminated against in spain, and their language is recognized as official in their region, if I'm not mistaken.

Anyway, back to the point. It's really difficult to say yet who was behind the attack. ETA is, of course, one of the major suspects, but I wouldn't rule out any Al Quaeda links either, as spain is among the coallition forces. The explosives are akin to those used by ETA, yet the magnitude of the attack and the way it was carried out (multiple attacks, large amounts of civilians targeting) strongly resemble Al Quaeda tactics. Perhaps they worked in collaboration, who knows.

Needless to say, my condolances go to spanish people.

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 God, Yoepus, you have to turn everything into an Israeli-Palestine debate, don't you?

I'm sorry, its just that I am jealous of the sympathies attributed to the Spanish people (which I share) when they are attacked with terror.

Interesting. Now they're reporting that detonators were found as well as some arabic stuff with Koranic verses, etc. Forgive me if I don't have all of the details.

Someone else was telling me this morning that they didn't think it was the ETA, as the ETA always gives a warning before they pull off any attacks.

Yep, ARABS!

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/...1126951,00.html

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I know ETA usually is quick to take responsibility for its events, Al Qaeda on the otherhand doens't.

you'r wrong here, ETA usally waits some weeks before they takes responisbility for something, but they (as shakka just said) usally warn before their attacks, and they also usally try to avoid unnecesary civilian causltys... so it is rather likely it was al quaida

al Qaeda now claiming responsibility in a letter to Western media outlets.

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew you'r wrong here, ETA usally waits some weeks before they takes responisbility for something, but they (as shakka just said) usally warn before their attacks, and they also usally try to avoid unnecesary civilian causltys... so it is rather likely it was al quaida

Yes, ETA tries to avoid large civilian casualties. After thinking about this one a bit, it looks more and more to me like Al Quaeda was behind this.

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Yes, ETA tries to avoid large civilian casualties. After thinking about this one a bit, it looks more and more to me like Al Quaeda was behind this.

more and more hints leading to that suspicion.

Yep, looks likely it was al-Qaeda now.

If only we had actually targetted al-Qaeda instead of Saddam Hussein... ?

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.