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-- The State of American Elections
The State of American Elections
I don't know about the rest of you, but it seems to me like this presidential race is going to be one of the dirtiest we have seen in a long time, maybe ever. The amount of bantering and name calling already going on between the Kerry and Bush campaigns is appalling. It feels like every time I turn on the news or read it online there is a new story of how the two have sunk even lower in order to steal votes from each other. I have to believe that there is something noble and just behind politics and politicians, but I cannot find a shred of this decency. I know it is perhaps overly ideological and maybe even naive, but why can't two politicians use their own beliefs and ideas as a platform to run for office, rather than using the destruction of their opponent as a vehicle for election.
Does anyone else feel this way, or am I blowing things out of proportion?
And to let you know the latest event that sent me off on this tirade, read HERE. It's like listening to two children fight on the playground.
Totally agree. Since Kerry has already come out and said he plans to have a legal team in place prior to the election to challenge the results...there are some really bad signals being sent here, and it's only beginning to get heated up. I'll have extra butter on my popcorn please.
agree, democracy sucks 
It's a contest to see who will break down and cry like a baby first. Then the electoral college will be banished and every year from now on, the one who doesn't crack becomes prez. 
Hilarious - look what someone put up on eBay.
"Imaginary Foreign Leader Endorsement For Sale"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...6&category=1467
thats it.
I agree democracy sux. Lets just appoint Bush for life
Hey look at the plus side, at least we won't have to worry about campagin financing
That ebay listing is almost as funny as the guy that sold his virginity...or the half eaten pickle. Since it will most likely get taken down at some point before it actually makes it further...I've screened it for now. Also, look at the bidders list...absolutely hilarious. I'd bid myself, but then again, I have "real foreign leaders" supporting me. bwhahaha. This just goes to further prove that people will bid on ANYTHING! (as you can see some bidders do have reputible feedback ratings and are not fake/new entities).
Classic!
Good Jorb John...LOL.
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| Originally posted by Yoepus thats it. I agree democracy sux. Lets just appoint Bush for life Hey look at the plus side, at least we won't have to worry about campagin financing |
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| Originally posted by Yoepus I agree democracy sux. Lets just appoint Bush for life |
Yes, I'm appalled. I was about to post a thread about the foreign leader fiasco, but I came across this first.
This election is going to be atrocious and will turn off voters like nothing else, which is probably what Karl Rove has in mind. The young voters are the first to be alienated by a shit-storm and they're the ones voting for Kerry.
That said, Kerry never should have made that statement if he can't back it up. I don't doubt it's veracity, but you must have proof for something like that. He needs to name names quickly or risk a lot of credibility.
Bush has alot to answer for. here's a few sites to start the research going:
"ads" satiarizing BUSH
Bush's "resume"
There seems to be a problem with separation of church and state here:
Fellowship finances townhouse where 6 congressmen live
are they loyal to their cult church or the voters???
hopefully, the flagrant disregade of the Bill of Rights will mobilize voters to get this guy out before it's too late.
My question is... why do Americans vote at all? The whole idea that the person who actually WON the last election by more then 500,000 votes is repugnant. Why? Because George W's daddy appointed almost the whole Supreme Court. Also W's cousin runs Fox News... he made the announcement that Bush had won before the votes were even done being counted.
While I understand that this is only the second time in history this has happened... it won't be the last. If Kerry wins this year, I will bet anything Bush Jr and Sr will find a way to make Jr win.
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| Originally posted by klubbhead024 My question is... why do Americans vote at all? The whole idea that the person who actually WON the last election by more then 500,000 votes is repugnant. Why? Because George W's daddy appointed almost the whole Supreme Court. Also W's cousin runs Fox News... he made the announcement that Bush had won before the votes were even done being counted. |
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| Originally posted by occrider Fyi Bush appointed two judges to the bench, Thomas and Souter. The ruling went 7-2 against the constitutional legitimacy of a recount. Therefore "Bush's" judges wouldn't have made any difference. With respect to the subsequent decision of what do, the decision to remand the case back to Florida was a 5-4 decision. Of the four desenters, one of them was Souter. And I'm beginning to understand why change never occurs. People love to bitch but never get off their ass to actually affect change. Go figure ... |
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| Originally posted by klubbhead024 Love to bitch eh? Actually, I am a proud member of the Libertarian party. I've written to senators, congressmen, the whole gammit. I am actively trying to insert a President in this country who won't fuck everybody but his friends over. The funny thing about me... I believe the US should be free. So feel free to support Bush... feel free to support the man who has cost this country trillions of dollars and millions of jobs, while him and his buddies rape other people's land for no gain except in their bank accounts. |
I don't think anyone here is trying to say that we shouldn't vote. I think the point is that it is understandably discouraging to witness an election where most of the country voted for one candidate and the one who lost, became President.
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| Originally posted by Ondrayce I don't think anyone here is trying to say that we shouldn't vote. I think the point is that it is understandably discouraging to witness an election where most of the country voted for one candidate and the one who lost, became President. |
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| Originally posted by klubbhead024 Love to bitch eh? Actually, I am a proud member of the Libertarian party. I've written to senators, congressmen, the whole gammit. I am actively trying to insert a President in this country who won't fuck everybody but his friends over. The funny thing about me... I believe the US should be free. So feel free to support Bush... feel free to support the man who has cost this country trillions of dollars and millions of jobs, while him and his buddies rape other people's land for no gain except in their bank accounts. BTW..... you might wanna check out the Patriot Act.. you'd be surprised how many freedoms have been taken away within the last 4 years. dude, you are so out of touch if truly believe all that. www.garynolan.com |
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| Originally posted by klubbhead024 Love to bitch eh? Actually, I am a proud member of the Libertarian party. I've written to senators, congressmen, the whole gammit. I am actively trying to insert a President in this country who won't fuck everybody but his friends over. The funny thing about me... I believe the US should be free. So feel free to support Bush... feel free to support the man who has cost this country trillions of dollars and millions of jobs, while him and his buddies rape other people's land for no gain except in their bank accounts. BTW..... you might wanna check out the Patriot Act.. you'd be surprised how many freedoms have been taken away within the last 4 years. www.garynolan.com |
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| Originally posted by occrider Well that's the way the electoral college works ... it has its merits and its weaknesses. Things could have quite easily swung the other way in 2000. Frankly I don't understand how people are suddenly outraged (with the loss of their favored candidate) when they didn't bother to speak up about it or study it for any of the previous elections where the electoral vote did not match the proportionality of the popular vote such as Kennedy's win. |
The Patriot Act: Everything for Nothing?
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| Originally posted by klubbhead024 Love to bitch eh? Actually, I am a proud member of the Libertarian party. I've written to senators, congressmen, the whole gammit. I am actively trying to insert a President in this country who won't fuck everybody but his friends over. The funny thing about me... I believe the US should be free. So feel free to support Bush... feel free to support the man who has cost this country trillions of dollars and millions of jobs, while him and his buddies rape other people's land for no gain except in their bank accounts. BTW..... you might wanna check out the Patriot Act.. you'd be surprised how many freedoms have been taken away within the last 4 years. www.garynolan.com |
The American "Democracy" is in shambles. It has been for a long period of time, but it seems to be getting worse as the years pass. Unfortunately, my circumstances seem to be changing, and I might have to stay here a bit longer (though that will mean that I will be voting ) before going home. Sigh.
Kerry is making numerous statements that he cannot back up, and Bush is repeating himself into circles that I don't think that even he knows what he is talking about anymore.
I had hope when Clark and Edwards were still in the running, but alas, it seems to be my nightmare come true.
Re: The Patriot Act: Everything for Nothing?
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| Originally posted by ali92 Here's a little something (a paper) that I [think I] saw written by someone on Shroomery.org: The Patriot Act: Everything for Nothing? There couldn't have been a worse time to pass landmark legislation. The act was introduced in Congress during a time of hysteria, less than a week after the 9/11 attacks. Designed to protect Americans, and prevent terror, the act still remains one of the greatest threats to civil liberties since the Sedition Act. Over a year later, much of the initial terror is over. Life, for most, has returned to normal, yet America is left with a slew of new laws that reflect the insane paranoia that temporarily gripped our nation. These new laws are joined under the Patriot Act, an act that, for the good of the nation, should be removed. The changes the Patriot Act has made are vast, far too numerous to be explained in any simple synopsis. At its core, through the addition of new laws and the modification of old laws, the act greatly increases the government's domestic spying powers. Phones can now be tapped, and homes searched, all without requiring any type of warrant, or evidence that a crime had been committed. The act also gives the federal government similar powers on the electronic frontier, allowing them the ability to monitor emails and internet activity, including input into search engines. The primary reason the Patriot Act exists is the popular belief that our intelligence agencies failed by being unable to warn us, or prevent the 911 attacks. Therefore, the question that must first be asked is if the act actually fixes the problems that prevented the FBI and CIA from preventing 9/11 in the first place. If it does not, then the costs of the act might not be worth bearing. Was our government restricted by search and seizure laws? Recent evidence seems to point in the other direction, reporting that lower-ranking agents had vital information that was lost in the chain of command. In the end, it seemed to be more a problem of the agency fitting the pieces together, not whether it was getting access to them. While our intelligence agencies clearly require a drastic overhaul, simply throwing more money and power at an incompetent organization certainly isn't going to help. It is important to remember our lawmakers were elected before 9/11, based on issues as far away from homeland security as can be. To assume that these lawmakers are accurately representing the wishes of those they represent would be ignoring this reality. In fact, nearly every poll on the subject has come out against the patriot act. A poll by the associated press revealed that 63% were worried that the patriot act would restrict individual freedom. A poll on CNN tallied 60% of those who participated as being against the act. As we distance ourselves further and further from 9/11, the number of people against the Patriot Act continues to increase. A 2-part survey done by Zogby International revealed that between November 2001 and August 2002, the number of Americans that approve of the government monitoring phone lines has declined to 24%, a 14% drop. The number of Americans who approve of the government reading your mail has declined by almost half; down to 35% from 62%. While the Patriot Act might once have been justifiable to the American people, it is not now, in the eyes of most, something that the country needs. Although an unpopular law is not necessarily an unjust law, there is plenty of evidence that suggests the Patriot Act is both. The 4th Amendment, looks like it was crafted specifically to prevent acts such as the Patriot act from ever being passed. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." The new powers given to the government, effectively nullify the concept of probable cause, allowing any person's house to be searched with little to no evidence. As long as the act stands, the 4th Amendment is no longer relevant. It should also be noted that the person the government spies on may not be an actual target of an investigation. All it takes is the government convincing the court that spying on you may lead to 'relevant information'; in a trial. Here's a hypothetical example: Let us say a friend of yours is working on a school project on terrorism, specifically potential targets that might need more protection from the US. He scans the internet on the subject, looking up nuclear power plants, dams, and government buildings on the internet, to see if appropriate safety measures have been taken. Let's also say that at one point, he chatted with you over Instant Messenger, asking for help on his project. The government has been monitoring all this, tipped off by a program that detects certain keywords in internet search engines. It has decided that your friend may be a potential threat that it needs to investigate. The government, without needing a search warrant, decides to search your friend's house when he is not home. A search of his computer reveals the IM conversation you shared, highlighting you as a potential accomplice. You come home one day to find your house a mess, the contents of every box, shelf and closet on the floor and certain computer disks of yours are nowhere to be found. This situation is entirely possible based upon the new powers granted to the government. "But why should we worry if we aren't guilty?" "Why should you care"; the argument goes, "unless you're a terrorist?" A police state is not defined by laws or wrongful accusations, but a lack of privacy and the complete right for the government to interfere with every aspect of our lives. This applies to everyone, even those who are innocent. The ability for the government to skip procedure and go directly to investigations, searches and seizures also opens the door to waves of abuse. It was the 4th Amendment that kept Americans from being unfairly targeted by the government, and although it has not happened recently(for reasons explained below) the possibility of it happening in the future is very real. Despite the act being targeted toward terrorists, there is no definitive guarantee that the act can only be used to that end. In fact, the act extends the definition of terrorism to include acts that are intended "to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion." paving the way for the mislabeling of political activists as terrorists. With no legal barrier to stop them, it falls upon the government to utilize the laws in an appropriate manner. If we could simply rely on the good graces of the government, then we wouldn't have any need for checks and balances. In fact, recent evidence suggests that the government is already misusing some of its new powers. A court created to oversee the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act recently refused to let the Federal government conduct a number of domestic wiretaps. The reason? The government supplied the agency with erroneous information 75 times, in an attempt to gain approval for search warrants and wiretaps. But perhaps, the greatest case against the Patriot Act is that, in many ways, it has already been proven a failure. Many of the powers given to the government, especially those relating to the tapping of phones, are not new. In fact, the Patriot act restores powers the FBI abused during the 50s and 60. These powers were taken away from the FBI after the its Cointelpro program was discovered by the public. Cointelpro was an attempt to spy on the general public with the intent to undermine various political movements, specifically, socialist, anti-war and civil rights groups. In all, nearly half a million Americans were spied upon. When the program's secrets were revealed in 1970, Public outrage was so great, that the agency was forced to forfeit much of its power. With a history of abusing its authority, and evidence that it is already done the same today, do we really wish to keep granting these sort of powers to the government? Simply put, the Patriot Act is NOT the answer. Forfeiting our rights for government protection, especially when that protection has already been misused. A true solution must be found, not one based on fear and ignorance. Only when America can step back, and weigh our values, can we truly judge what we should give up in the name of safety. |
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| Originally posted by Ondrayce Its a wierd system, but I agree. If you didn't vote at all, then you shouldn't bitch. |
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