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The Newest Figure for Character Assassination: John Dean

Well, the disturbing trend of prominent people speaking out against the bush administration continues. And by prominent, I don't mean the laughable dribble such as Moore or Franken. If any of you are aware, John Dean recently came out with a book entitled: "Worse than Watergate: The Secret Presidancy of George W. Bush" As somewhat of a biography behind dean, he's a registered independant who was former white house counsel privy to some of the innerworkings of the Nixon administration during its somewhat scandalous tenure. Anyway, I kind of paged through it in the bookstore and it looked interesting so I bought it. It appeared to make some cogent points that the Bush adminisration is one of the most secretive administrations since the Nixon administrations which is somewhat of a threat to the concept of democracy and the separation of powers. Thoughts?

Re: The Newest Figure for Character Assassination: John Dean

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Well, the disturbing trend of prominent people speaking out against the bush administration continues. And by prominent, I don't mean the laughable dribble such as Moore or Franken. If any of you are aware, John Dean recently came out with a book entitled: "Worse than Watergate: The Secret Presidancy of George W. Bush" As somewhat of a biography behind dean, he's a registered independant who was former white house counsel privy to some of the innerworkings of the Nixon administration during its somewhat scandalous tenure. Anyway, I kind of paged through it in the bookstore and it looked interesting so I bought it. It appeared to make some cogent points that the Bush adminisration is one of the most secretive administrations since the Nixon administrations which is somewhat of a threat to the concept of democracy and the separation of powers. Thoughts?

I think all the secrets are coming out do to the severity of the upcoming elections. I don't believe I've seen such mudslinging and manipulation of words in my life (and yes, I paid attention to the elections when I was a child as well!)

I shall comment more on this tomorrow, when I don't have to wake up in a few hours for work. Just wanted to make a quick comment at least.

The secrecy of the Bush administration is no secret. It wouldn't be the first time that comparisons have been made between bush and Nixon. Btw, There was no surprise where the administration was heading when bush first executive order was to seal his daddy's records,

Secrecy bad for democracy? Are you try to lob a softball for me to hit out of the ballpark?

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Originally posted by igottaknow The secrecy of the Bush administration is no secret. It wouldn't be the first time that comparisons have been made between bush and Nixon. Btw, There was no surprise where the administration was heading when bush first executive order was to seal his daddy's records, Secrecy bad for democracy? Are you try to lob a softball for me to hit out of the ballpark?

There is a place and time that privy information that should NOT be revealed in entirety to the widespread public or even congress. One need only look at how quickly leaks spread from the American government to the press for example of that. However, what the book contends is that there is a deliberate trend consistent with historical perspective from the Nixon administration that the secretive practices of the Bush administration are completely unwarranted given the nature of the policy decisions derived from those intelligence assets. At any rate, it's an interesting book since it provides perspectives from both sides of teh fence.

Re: The Newest Figure for Character Assassination: John Dean

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Well, the disturbing trend of prominent people speaking out against the bush administration continues. And by prominent, I don't mean the laughable dribble such as Moore or Franken. If any of you are aware, John Dean recently came out with a book entitled: "Worse than Watergate: The Secret Presidancy of George W. Bush" As somewhat of a biography behind dean, he's a registered independant who was former white house counsel privy to some of the innerworkings of the Nixon administration during its somewhat scandalous tenure. Anyway, I kind of paged through it in the bookstore and it looked interesting so I bought it. It appeared to make some cogent points that the Bush adminisration is one of the most secretive administrations since the Nixon administrations which is somewhat of a threat to the concept of democracy and the separation of powers. Thoughts?

I'm not sure just how "independent" he is politically, just spending about 45 min. reading alot of his columns here http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/
Most of his criticism democratically biassed you would think seeing that there is no democratic criticism to be found there. That might be the sites discretion. I don't know.
On the other hand I notice that it lacks the liberal rhetoric and "laughable dribble" that you point out in your opener. His commentary is concise, intelligent and informative. (read DRY) He is a political columnist!
Curious how you are liking the book.

As far as the secrecy goes...It's my opinion that given the world climate in this new century, the new economic competition in EU, Chinese economic imperialism, global security, homeland security, the war on terror and many other things that previous administrations did not have to worry about SHOULD breed an aire of some secrecy within the administration. We as Americans are not only targets to terrorist but an economic targets to other overseas interests as well. China and the EU. The democrats! The world is getting smarter, smaller, faster and a hell of a lot more ambitious. Kinda like we have been the last 50yrs. I feel its only natural to become more discreet in how the administration does business.


sleepy.

I watched Bill Moyers' interview with John Dean the other day, and I completely agree with him that the media as a whole has not been doing its job properly in regards to questioning the actions and motives of this Administration. The media, except for perhaps PBS and NPR (which gave both sides), I found was essentially cheering on the Iraq war before it began without questioning the motives given. Even so-called �liberal media� such as the Washington Post was dominated by pro-war editorials.

There�s little doubt in my mind that the media failed the public, and to some extent continues to fail the public in regards to its important role in maintaining checks and balances.

I probably distrust the media as much as some of you guys distrust the UN lol.

/media critic

imo in a true democracy should every decission and the minutes of every public decission taking be avaiable to the public without any restrictions as far as it's not a threat to the nations security.

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew imo in a true democracy should every decission and the minutes of every public decission taking be avaiable to the public without any restrictions as far as it's not a threat to the nations security.

Well in a true democracy every decision is made by the public, so it would be pretty challenging to keep the public from knowing about those decisions.

Dean is hardly unbiased with regards to the Bush administration. He's written against them from "day one," so his latest words are just another criticism. Also, not one member of the media has asked John Dean why what he writes should be taken as factual material rather than just an opinion article. The man is a convicted felon and served time in prison for misleading investigators.

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Originally posted by imokruok The man is a convicted felon and served time in prison for misleading investigators.

are you serious? when?

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Originally posted by Arbiter Well in a true democracy every decision is made by the public, so it would be pretty challenging to keep the public from knowing about those decisions.

okay, sorry "in a true indirect democracy"

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Originally posted by Q5echo are you serious? when?

Watergate - after Nixon resigned. Also interesting is that Dean sued the authors of one well-known history of Watergate, a book called "Silent Coup," and the authors of that book used Dean's own history of Watergate to answer the lawsuit.

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok Watergate - after Nixon resigned. Also interesting is that Dean sued the authors of one well-known history of Watergate, a book called "Silent Coup," and the authors of that book used Dean's own history of Watergate to answer the lawsuit.

So he was a Republican lawyer who represented Nixon during Watergate. He, along with Nixon and many others in his Republican Administration, lied, in attempts to protect that lying Republican Administration.

So what better of a source could you ask for to give his opinion on a current lying Administration than a Republican lawyer who knows all about previously lying Republican Administrations?

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok The man is a convicted felon and served time in prison for misleading investigators.

That�s quite a fitting line considering the theme of Occrider�s thread.

I've noticed that this is the standard response to criticism given by most Republicans.

When in doubt, use character assassinations, personal attacks, or (my favorite) simply fabricate an intern scandal!

The very fact that Dean served in the Nixon White House (with Cheney and Rumsfeld), and experienced that degree of corruption gives him a significant degree of credibility.

Oliver North is also a convicted felon, but that obviously hasn't stopped him from moving on to a successful career as a Fox News "analyst."




http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB113/

Speak of the devil, Dean's on Air America right now on the O'Franken Factor:

www.ofrankenfactor.com

Edited for correct link.

Oh well, I'll be waiting for the content assassination to corroborate the character assassinations before I become disinclined to believe Dean's analysis.

As for the need for secrecy to protect national security interests, in what way was the nation's national security interests protected by Bush's disguised motivation's for going to war with Iraq? What, congress can't handle all the facts? The public can't handle all the facts?

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Oh well, I'll be waiting for the content assassination to corroborate the character assassinations before I become disinclined to believe Dean's analysis. As for the need for secrecy to protect national security interests, in what way was the nation's national security interests protected by Bush's disguised motivation's for going to war with Iraq? What, congress can't handle all the facts? The public can't handle all the facts?

the question, congress and the public can't handle all the facts, is a fairly broad statement.
Of course select members of congress are privy to classified ways and means for national security intel gathering. The public, on the other hand, it should be obvious.

I'm at work right now. I have to go.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo the question, congress and the public can't handle all the facts, is a fairly broad statement. Of course select members of congress are privy to classified ways and means for national security intel gathering. The public, on the other hand, it should be obvious. I'm at work right now. I have to go.

I'm not talking about intelligence data. I'm talking about the rationale and motivations behind policy decisions. It's fairly clear that the Bush administration simply chose WMDs as the reason for invasion simply because it was the "easiest" thing to use. But that's not what motivated their Iraq policy. That much should be clear to everyone. So instead of the whole wmd circus games they fed to the public and congress, why not be truthful about their case for war? There's a reason why congress is the sole branch of power that has the authority to declare war. Therefore they should be privy to ALL the facts and motives when making a decision to proceed. The actions of the Bush administration clearly tip-toes around the concept of democracy and the separation of powers since their root motivation in the middle east was not removal of wmds as they presented, but regime change regardless of the excuse needed to accomplish that.

I suppose it is, in part, congresses' fault since the congressional approval for war, while good intentioned perhaps, contained holes that Bush was able to utilize and trample over what good intentions it may have had.

King George believes "his" democracy is too precious to leave it in the hands of the people. Anyone can see that releasing internal documents related to the work of Cheney's energy task force would jeopardize our national security.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 So he was a Republican lawyer who represented Nixon during Watergate. He, along with Nixon and many others in his Republican Administration, lied, in attempts to protect that lying Republican Administration. So what better of a source could you ask for to give his opinion on a current lying Administration than a Republican lawyer who knows all about previously lying Republican Administrations?

It's not "character assassination" to question someone's motivations. Yes, he was a member of the Nixon administration, but he didn't necessarily leave on amicable terms. Since the 1970's, Dean has had public disputes with several former members of that administration, including books and articles blasting his former colleagues.

So, it's perfectly legitimate to ask why he would release a book in an election year that concerns several of his former colleagues. One can argue that it's so he can prevent some of the things from happening that happened while he was in the White House. One can also argue that this is the easiest way for him to get back at his former colleagues.

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok The man is a convicted felon and served time in prison for misleading investigators.

If only his daddy was as powerful as Dubya's, he could have gotten away clean.



The Newest Figure for Character Assassination: John Dean

Fitting title, occrider!

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Originally posted by igottaknow King George believes "his" democracy is too precious to leave it in the hands of the people.

You forgot to mention that Bush has sealed both his father's and Reagan's presidential files as well. I wonder what they're hiding now?

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Originally posted by Trancer-X You forgot to mention that Bush has sealed both his father's and Reagan's presidential files as well. I wonder what they're hiding now?

Ahem...and Clinton's.

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok Ahem...and Clinton's.

I'm surprised the GOP didn't dredge Clinton's files for some dirt in order to make Shrub look a little bit better before election. Oops, nevermind.

http://prorev.com/wwduncan.htm

http://mena.pamrotella.com/

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X I'm surprised the GOP didn't dredge Clinton's files for some dirt in order to make Shrub look a little bit better before election. Oops, nevermind. http://prorev.com/wwduncan.htm http://mena.pamrotella.com/

from your comments I get the impression that the sealing of files is a one way street , favoring the administrational branch of government.
If thats is what your implying, your wrong.

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