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Demoratic countries should no longer support Israel, when…
Mr Sharon suspends all elections and plans a decade of unquestioned rule.
Sharon suspends all investigation about fiscal impropriety as his family members spend millions of Israeli aid money in Paris.
All Israeli television and newspapers are censored by the Likud party.
Israeli hit teams enter the West Bank with the precise intention of targeting and blowing up Arab women and children.
Israeli children are apprehended with bombs under their shirts on their way to the West Bank to murder Palestinian families.
Israeli crowds rush into the street to dip their hands into the blood of their dead and march en masse chanting mass murder to the Palestinians.
Rabbis give public sermons in which they characterize Palestinians as the children of pigs and monkeys.
Rabbis tell Israelis when you kill Arab civilians you will be rewarded with 72 virgins.
Israeli school textbooks state that Arabs engage in blood sacrifice and ritual murders.
Mainstream Israeli politicians, without public rebuke, call for the destruction of Palestinians on the West Bank and the end to Arab society there.
Likud party members routinely lynch and execute their opponents without trial.
Jewish fundamentalists execute with impunity women found guilty of adultery on grounds that they are impugning the “honor” of the family.
Israeli mobs with impunity tear apart Palestinian policemen held in detention.
Israeli television broadcasts—to the tune of patriotic music—the last taped messages of Jewish suicide bombers who have slaughtered dozens of Arabs.
Jewish marchers parade in the streets with their children dressed up as suicide bombers, replete with plastic suicide-bombing vests.
Steven Spielberg post $25,000 dollars for every Palestinian blown up by Israeli murderers.
Israeli militants murder a Jew by accident and then apologize on grounds that they though he was an Arab—to the silence of Israeli society.
Jews enter Arab villages in Israel to machine gun women and children.
Israeli public figures routinely threaten the United States with terror attacks.
Jewish assassins murder American diplomats and are given de facto sanctuary by Israeli society.
Israeli citizens celebrate news that 3,000 Americans have been murdered.
Israeli citizens express support for Iraqis dragging burned American bodies through the streets and hanging them from bridges.
yeee right, it is a democracy, lets support it by all means! 
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| Originally posted by St_Andrew yeee right, it is a democracy, lets support it by all means! |
You know, when Israel as a country didn't exist, the jews and arabs there lived in peace, and noone blew or shot up anything.
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| Originally posted by Cal You know, when Israel as a country didn't exist, the jews and arabs there lived in peace, and noone blew or shot up anything. |
Aye, damn zionist terrorists.
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| Originally posted by Cal You know, when Israel as a country didn't exist, the jews and arabs there lived in peace, and noone blew or shot up anything. |
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| Sharon suspends all investigation about fiscal impropriety as his family members spend millions of Israeli aid money in Paris. |
You can't possibly mean to compare the ordinary cross ethnic group conflicts of the past to the present state of the region.
NOt only that... he is looking at specific years when tensions started to grow as a result of the ZIONIST threat!
Before there was ever talk of an Israel... things were relatively peaceful for centuries.
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| Originally posted by Cal You can't possibly mean to compare the ordinary cross ethnic group conflicts of the past to the present state of the region. |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King a result of the ZIONIST threat! |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Cyrus King Before there was ever talk of an Israel... things were relatively peaceful for centuries. |
he wasn't talking about that| quote: |
| Originally posted by Cal You know, when Israel as a country didn't exist, the jews and arabs there lived in peace, and noone blew or shot up anything. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Cyrus King Until those zionists came and murdered, raped, and pilaged |
It's a wonder that the EU still sends Arafat a monthly allowance. Hopefully, he won't be receiving it for too much longer.
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| Originally posted by dj_ilan_yosef Excuse you! Why not EXAGGERATE your historical fallacies even further! Raped... HA! You make gross generalizations; the very thing you argue against time and again on this board. The only raping going on is that of Israeli lives by Palestinians/Arabs/Islamists. The very people who are also "raping" people on the side you're arguing for. The very people who alter the laws of their religion to sway the masses onto accepting the killing ones self a righteous act, indoctrinating their societies and school systems onto thinking along these homicidal lines. To be a martyr, one must kill you - not the intifada remix - KILL YOURSELF and take Jews with you. 72 virgins my ass.... 72 raisins maybe! |
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| "About a dozen. In Acre four soldiers raped a girl and murdered her and her father. In Jaffa, soldiers of the Kiryati Brigade raped one girl and tried to rape several more. At Hunin, which is in the Galilee, two girls were raped and then murdered. There were one or two cases of rape at Tantura, south of Haifa. There was one case of rape at Qula, in the center of the country. At the village of Abu Shusha, near Kibbutz Gezer [in the Ramle area] there were four female prisoners, one of whom was raped a number of times. And there were other cases. Usually more than one soldier was involved. Usually there were one or two Palestinian girls. In a large proportion of the cases the event ended with murder. Because neither the victims nor the rapists liked to report these events, we have to assume that the dozen cases of rape that were reported, which I found, are not the whole story. They are just the tip of the iceberg." |
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| Using Israeli state archives for his recently revised study, he reminds us that Israel was set up by expulsion, rape and massacre. The Jewish state could not have come into being without ethnic cleansing and, he asserts, more may be necessary in future to ensure its survival. This bald assertion should shock no one, for it is entirely consistent with the basic Zionist proposition of an ethnically pure state. |
I find it quite amusing when Israelis can't fess up to the fact that the Zionist movement had clear motives of ethnic cleansing since the beginning, even AFTER the Israeli archives were opened in the mid-eighties and respected Israeli historians like Benny Morris (who IS zionist) and Ilan Pappe have said as much
Edit (to post links):
Ilan Pappe: http://www.bintjbeil.com/articles/en/021020_pappe.html
Very good article, but quite long. Well worth the read.
Benny Morris: http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=11733
Interview with the man himself. Also quite long, but also well worth the read.
jeez oversimplify for emphasis once and the dogs jump your ass
thanks flot
EDIT: not calling you a dog, flot, its an expression (goddamnit I hate being a lawer about these things)
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Epicurus Benny Morris: http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=11733 Interview with the man himself. Also quite long, but also well worth the read. |
YO PISS! Shaddap, whhwhahahahah.
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| Benny Morris never believed it was the desire of the Jews to 'ethnically cleanse' the Arabs from the area. |
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| BM: Of course. Ben-Gurion was a transferist. He understood that there could be no Jewish State with a large and hostile Arab minority in its midst. There would be no such state. It would not be able to exist. AS: I don’t hear you condemning him. BM: Ben-Gurion was right. If he had not done what he did, a state would not have come into being. That has to be clear. It is impossible to evade it. Without the uprooting of the Palestinians, a Jewish State would not have arisen here. |
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| Also Illan has a valid point, persecution agains the Jews has existed in Israel long before any zionist movement. Antisemitism has also existed long before any zionist movement. Perhaps you don't want to realize these facts as they contradict with the world views you like to share, but go google it.. you'll find out. |
So yes, Ilan has a point, a point I never denied. You simply assumed that it contradicts my world-view. At any rate, that does not in any way shape or form affect in the slightest my point. I'm sure you see that. I don't think I have to do that work for you 
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| Originally posted by Palestinian YO PISS! Shaddap, whhwhahahahah. |
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| Also, the modern conception of the term "ethnic cleansing" specifically involves the killing of people of a particular race does it not? |
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| Originally posted by Epicurus And they did...did you actually read the links provided |
Re: Demoratic countries should no longer support Israel, when…
| quote: |
| Originally posted by VanFleet Steven Spielberg post $25,000 dollars for every Palestinian blown up by Israeli murderers. |
Re: Demoratic countries should no longer support Israel, when…
| quote: |
| Originally posted by VanFleet Mainstream Israeli politicians, without public rebuke, call for the destruction of Palestinians on the West Bank and the end to Arab society there. Jews enter Arab villages in Israel to machine gun women and children. |
Re: Re: Demoratic countries should no longer support Israel, when…
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| Originally posted by borron So........ this never happened before eh? |
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What is exactly the point of this thread? |
Interesting how Pal supporters are now using "select portions" of the Benny Morris interview to back up their position. If you read the whole interview, however, it suggests something quite different; and if you intend to use that interview as an authoritative source on the conflict, then you had better take into account everything he said in that interview and not just the parts you like.
Ethnic cleansing - although it is not specifically defined this way - implies that the elimination or transfer of the population in question is due to some kind of hatred or political motives. However, we're looking at this as an afterthought, from a 3rd-party, neutral, historical perspective. You need to look at it through the perspective of Ben Gurion and the Jews at that time (which is what Benny Morris does in that interview) and understand that the motivation for this "ethnic cleansing" was their own survival. They did not believe that they could continue to survive by any other means, nor was there any evidence to indicate that they could (frankly it still surprises me that they survived at all), which is why the Zionists took over and the state of Israel in a "military" sense was actually formed.
But don't take my word for it - read the interview, the link has already been posted.
I guess the question here is, is ethnic cleansing NEVER justified, even when it's literally either you or them and casualties are actually minimized compared to the alternative of bloody civil war?
We shouldn't be so quick to moralize about people's decisions without first trying to understand those people or the decisions they made. In a sense, even though I can't support anything that Palestine is currently doing, I can identify with those who started the first intifada because the situation for them was quite bleak as well. But if you think it was bleak for Palestine then, surely you must believe it was just as bleak or worse for Israel in 1948!
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